What in the world is SRB2 Workshop?

[Kekrock]

Here's the Zdoom rules then.View attachment 101370
(That board mentioned at the end is comprised of off-site links to the original mod sources BTW.)

Here's idgames: View attachment 101371

Doomworld has a comparable system of reusability:

View attachment 101372

Again, not an unusual standard to require permission. The reusability system simply makes it easier by requiring addon creators to declare their wishes beforehand, removing the need to even ask for permission in a plurality of cases.

"oh this webside does this, this and that like us!"
that is not really an argument honestly, also the doomworld example is pretty bad, i took extra time to read it and it's simply "yeah you can distribute this wad it you don't mess around with it"
my man, i'd really suggest if you'd so some research before saying a word.
anyway, i think maybe it's time to let go of Reusability system, it will be hard, but the hardest part, is letting go.
quoating Father Elijah:
"But getting to it, that's not the hard part. It's letting go"

 

[C.D. Dinosaur]

"oh this webside does this, this and that like us!"
that is not really an argument honestly, also the doomworld example is pretty bad, i took extra time to read it and it's simply "yeah you can distribute this wad it you don't mess around with it"
my man, i'd really suggest if you'd so some research before saying a word.
anyway, i think maybe it's time to let go of Reusability system, it will be hard, but the hardest part, is letting go.
quoating Father Elijah:
"But getting to it, that's not the hard part. It's letting go"

"Ok, so my point about rules not applying didn't work. Oh well, time to switch course immediately into even if the rules did exist, it would matter."

Pro tip, completely switching arguments mid debate actually makes both seem less believable

 

[SP Moves Enjoyer]

anyway, i think maybe it's time to let go of Reusability system, it will be hard, but the hardest part, is letting go.

Why are you so hellbent on removing a system that simply gives modders ownership of their mod?

 

[Sls64LGamingBro]

View attachment 101371

Literally SRB2 copy the same thing, so to be honest. They did it by not thinking this exist, or might have read it and did it for the message board.

 

[Katmint]

I think a major reason unauthorised ports have such a notorious reputation in the first place is that historically the majority of attempts to port complex or "big name" mods have been rush jobs released in an extremely broken state. That's just the natural result of applied impatience.

 

[SP Moves Enjoyer]

I think a major reason unauthorised ports have such a notorious reputation in the first place is that historically the majority of attempts to port complex or "big name" mods have been rush jobs released in an extremely broken state. That's just the natural result of applied impatience.

FR. Most portlegs suck and do the original mod no justice.

 

[MetalDeskFan42]

If I could throw in my two cents, I can say this: Portlegs can be awesome to play if they had the effort put in and weren't a rush job. I personally don't agree with the reusability system due to the ability to abuse said system. Unless this community can agree on one side or the other, it will be an eternal battle over mods for a sonic fangame.


I believe that the modders own their mod, but once they throw it out to the public, it's free game for anyone to take the mod and use some assets. The sprites are art because it takes a lot of time to sprite characters like E-102 Gamma, the code isn't because there is no "artistic intent" with code.

If I could summarize my point, it would be this: Mods are partially art, partially not art. You can use the code, but not the sprites. Put in the effort to port the character and not rush the job.


"The Sonic Community loves to throw itself into drama."

-Me

 

[SP Moves Enjoyer]

If I could throw in my two cents, I can say this: Portlegs can be awesome to play if they had the effort put in and weren't a rush job. I personally don't agree with the reusability system due to the ability to abuse said system. Unless this community can agree on one side or the other, it will be an eternal battle over mods for a sonic fangame.


I believe that the modders own their mod, but once they throw it out to the public, it's free game for anyone to take the mod and use some assets. The sprites are art because it takes a lot of time to sprite characters like E-102 Gamma, the code isn't because there is no "artistic intent" with code.

If I could summarize my point, it would be this: Mods are partially art, partially not art. You can use the code, but not the sprites. Put in the effort to port the character and not rush the job.


"The Sonic Community loves to throw itself into drama."

-Me

so you shouldn't have your sprites taken, but you should have your code taken??

coding is equally as important as sprites, E-102 Gamma wouldn't be so great without all the code that made it function like that. Why can't we just have both sprites and code belong to you because you created both of those things?

 

[MetalDeskFan42]

so you shouldn't have your sprites taken, but you should have your code taken??

coding is equally as important as sprites, E-102 Gamma wouldn't be so great without all the code that made it function like that. Why can't we just have both sprites and code belong to you because you created both of those things?

Because ultimately, we play the same sonic fangame. I want the ability to play older mods on a newer version, you might not want that. It's your choice, and not mine.

This drama is the worst. It just brings out people out of the depths to say "Portlegging bad" and get a lot of praise for it. I live in my world, you live in yours.

Post automatically merged: Sep 25, 2023

I'm not going to push this discussion any further, I'm tired of the reusability debates and the portlegging debates. They add nothing that would benefit society

 

[SP Moves Enjoyer]

Because ultimately, we play the same sonic fangame. I want the ability to play older mods on a newer version, you might not want that. It's your choice, and not mine.

This drama is the worst. It just brings out people out of the depths to say "Portlegging bad" and get a lot of praise for it. I live in my world, you live in yours.

1. what exactly does making port have to do with you saying that you should have the ability to take other people's code

2. no one's stopping you from making a port, but if you want to post it here you have to follow the rules and the proper procedure. you could easily port 2.1 shadow and keep it to yourself to play, there's nothing wrong with that. but once you try to post it here without permission then it becomes a problem because you haven't asked for permission from the creator.

 

[MetalDeskFan42]

1. what exactly does making port have to do with you saying that you should have the ability to take other people's code

2. no one's stopping you from making a port, but if you want to post it here you have to follow the rules and the proper procedure. you could easily port 2.1 shadow and keep it to yourself to play, there's nothing wrong with that. but once you try to post it here without permission then it becomes a problem because you haven't asked for permission from the creator.

1. I have SLADE and the ability to right click and use Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V

2. I won't even post mods on the official mb if it breaks the rules, thats why WS exists

3. Why are you fighting to defend the ability to keep code proprietary?

Just stop replying to me, you are wasting your time.

 

[SP Moves Enjoyer]

1. I have SLADE and the ability to right click and use Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V

2. I won't even post mods on the official mb if it breaks the rules, thats why WS exists

3. Why are you fighting to defend the ability to keep code proprietary?

Just stop replying to me, you are wasting your time.

I'm only defending this because you shouldn't be able to copy + paste someone's entire non reusable lua script and then get past releases, and you know what? I am wasting my time. I'm wasting my time trying to explain why the workshop isn't a good site, I'm also wasting my time trying to explain why the act of stealing isn't good. This entire reusability system is so easy to understand, these rules are so easy to follow and yet we have people like you that STILL think its too much. So I'm no longer going to reply to this thread anymore, its pointless trying to reason with people that can't even understand basic respect.

 

[amperbee]

I'm not going to push this discussion any further

Just stop replying to me

you join a conversation, you open up the ability to people to reply to you. whether you respond to the replies is up to you though.
shouldn't have joined if you didn't want to be replied to.

---

I believe that the modders own their mod, but once they throw it out to the public, it's free game for anyone to take the mod and use some assets. The sprites are art because it takes a lot of time to sprite characters like E-102 Gamma, the code isn't because there is no "artistic intent" with code.

If I could summarize my point, it would be this: Mods are partially art, partially not art. You can use the code, but not the sprites. Put in the effort to port the character and not rush the job.

Yes, the mod is out in the public and people can use pieces of it for their own, that's how things evolve.
The problem is distributing it, which many take an issue to.

And the main issue here is when people take the unmodified chunk of specific code, probably tweak it, and then distribute it as a port.
That's disrespectful at best. Maybe the author has something big planned for the next update. Maybe they don't want to make just a cheap ass port to the new version, be it because it would look weird or something.

Doesn't kill to ask the author "hey, do you mind if i port this for you?", you feel?


also what's up with "there is no artistic intent with code"???
LATE EDIT SORRY the artistic intent comes with utilizing your expertise to make whatever medium be pleasing to experience.
it's an art to stock shelves in a neatly organized way,
it's an art to properly create a sword with a bunch of molten iron,
it's an art to write logic words in a particular sequence to have the computer carry out without crying.

i'd say gamma's segmented body and the code that displaces it in its proper location is art, for example

just because words aren't art to you doesn't mean they aren't art in general (see: books)
are you being inflammatory on purpose?

I want the ability to play older mods on a newer version, you might not want that. It's your choice, and not mine.

While it is your choice to pick whatever junk your game will be overloaded with, it is the author's choice to decide whether they want to port a mod to a newer version and perhaps use the newer features.

Porting a mod is not always 1:1 (perhaps because of a breaking change in the new version of the game), and the author may want to take a particular path to port the mod instead of cheaply translating a few functions and names to what the game now accepts. it can easily end with worse performance or unintended behavior the author doesn't want to support.

You're welcome to edit it for yourself, but not to share it around. It's not that hard to extend basic courtesy and not share something that the author is not happy with.

 

[MetalDeskFan42]

you join a conversation, you open up the ability to people to reply to you. whether you respond to the replies is up to you though.
shouldn't have joined if you didn't want to be replied to.

---

Yes, the mod is out in the public and people can use pieces of it for their own, that's how things evolve.
The problem is distributing it, which many take an issue to.

And the main issue here is when people take the unmodified chunk of specific code, probably tweak it, and then distribute it as a port.
That's disrespectful at best. Maybe the author has something big planned for the next update. Maybe they don't want to make just a cheap ass port to the new version, be it because it would look weird or something.

Doesn't kill to ask the author "hey, do you mind if i port this for you?", you feel?


also what's up with "there is no artistic intent with code"???
LATE EDIT SORRY the artistic intent comes with utilizing your expertise to make whatever medium be pleasing to experience.
it's an art to stock shelves in a neatly organized way,
it's an art to properly create a sword with a bunch of molten iron,
it's an art to write logic words in a particular sequence to have the computer carry out without crying.

i'd say gamma's segmented body and the code that displaces it in its proper location is art, for example

just because words aren't art to you doesn't mean they aren't art in general (see: books)
are you being inflammatory on purpose?


While it is your choice to pick whatever junk your game will be overloaded with, it is the author's choice to decide whether they want to port a mod to a newer version and perhaps use the newer features.

Porting a mod is not always 1:1 (perhaps because of a breaking change in the new version of the game), and the author may want to take a particular path to port the mod instead of cheaply translating a few functions and names to what the game now accepts. it can easily end with worse performance or unintended behavior the author doesn't want to support.

You're welcome to edit it for yourself, but not to share it around. It's not that hard to extend basic courtesy and not share something that the author is not happy with.

To answer your points

1: I am not being inflammatory, I took my time to add my 2 cents into the discussion, if I was inflammatory, I would have focused on reloading this page for a new reply to respond to.
2: Books, (and by extension, fan works for books) are art on their own right, I can concede on that point.
3: Yes, I checked your profile and see that you made a bunch of mods, I can see why you are on the "Keep reusability camp" (I mean no ill intent when I say this)
4: I would say that the code that glues Gamma's sprites are art, but the rest of the code (The time limit, the abilities) are up for free grabs as long as you properly credit the code parts that were used.

I forgot to add this to my initial point, but the person who publishes a port to the eventual 2.3 should have the guts to put in a credit to the original and have a link.

Most tribalistic discussion I've seen, and I really don't know why I have to ask permission to use [Open Assets] Mods, its Open assets, not beg for permission and get rejected.

 

[amperbee]

I can see why you are on the "Keep reusability camp"

i didn't really state anything regarding this though, i'm indifferent to it
i just don't like being a shitty person

I would say that the code that glues Gamma's sprites are art, but the rest of the code [...] are up for free grabs

what makes code "art"?
when exactly does code stop being "art" and become something "up for free grabs"?

I really don't know why I have to ask permission to use [Open Assets] Mods

you do? since when?
last i checked you can ask to be friendly and get assistance, but you can just... get down to it no questions asked

 

[DylanDude]

Most tribalistic discussion I've seen, and I really don't know why I have to ask permission to use [Open Assets] Mods, its Open assets, not beg for permission and get rejected.

You uh... don't need to though. That's the entire point of that board.

 

[Rolly Polly Pal]

To answer your points

1: I am not being inflammatory, I took my time to add my 2 cents into the discussion, if I was inflammatory, I would have focused on reloading this page for a new reply to respond to.
2: Books, (and by extension, fan works for books) are art on their own right, I can concede on that point.
3: Yes, I checked your profile and see that you made a bunch of mods, I can see why you are on the "Keep reusability camp" (I mean no ill intent when I say this)
4: I would say that the code that glues Gamma's sprites are art, but the rest of the code (The time limit, the abilities) are up for free grabs as long as you properly credit the code parts that were used.

I forgot to add this to my initial point, but the person who publishes a port to the eventual 2.3 should have the guts to put in a credit to the original and have a link.

Most tribalistic discussion I've seen, and I really don't know why I have to ask permission to use [Open Assets] Mods, its Open assets, not beg for permission and get rejected.

The whole point of open assets mods is that you don't need to ask, the author has explicitly given permission for you to utilize them in your mods. I don't know what your point there is.

 

[DylanDude]

Unless this community can agree on one side or the other, it will be an eternal battle over mods for a sonic fangame.

This is not a neutral take. We (the MB) did not start this drama, a group of people who wanted to be able to upload things that weren't theirs even when asked not to did. As I displayed earlier, this policy is common throughout the Doom community. A splinter faction from this fandom however has decided to create drama over it.

1. I have SLADE and the ability to right click and use Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V

We don't care if you edit mods on your own, we care if you republish those edits without permission. Does having SLADE remove that ability?

The whole point of open assets mods is that you don't need to ask, the author has explicitly given permission for you to utilize them in your mods. I don't know what your point there is.

Also, this.

that is not really an argument honestly, also the doomworld example is pretty bad, i took extra time to read it and it's simply "yeah you can distribute this wad it you don't mess around with it"
my man, i'd really suggest if you'd so some research before saying a word.

"Messing around with mods and then redistributing them" is kind of the main objection here. Nice argument change mid-debate, though.

 

[Kekrock]

This is not a neutral take. We (the MB) did not start this drama, a group of people who wanted to be able to upload things that weren't theirs even when asked not to did. As I displayed earlier, this policy is common throughout the Doom community. A splinter faction from this fandom however has decided to create drama over it.


We don't care if you edit mods on your own, we care if you republish those edits without permission. Does having SLADE remove that ability?


Also, this.


"Messing around with mods and then redistributing them" is kind of the main objection here. Nice argument change mid-debate, though.

you did clearly start this drama by saying "Workshop is shit don't use it", stop trying to gaslight everyone here in this thread that is the opposite.
actually, why can't you just leave them alone? why aren't you happy that the community gets more mods? even if they may be ports, you're still getting more mods for the gam and that's what matters at the end of the day.

let me also bring up the WS's "LGBT is prohibited rule" and clear things up:
they're (as you already know) in Russia, a country notorious for being one of the most homophobic Eastern European countries (though they're not in Europe), so, it would be very logical for them to prohibit any LGBT member here, they're just following the government laws, since i live in Poland (the worst country when it comes to LGBT rights in Europe as a whole, literally 1/3rd of Poland is homphobic) i understand their situation, and simply not choose to argue over that, unlike most of y'all that can't understand, and or research simple things like country laws.

anyway, i hope this was useful to everyone in this thread

 

[DylanDude]

you did clearly start this drama by saying "Workshop is shit don't use it", stop trying to gaslight everyone here in this thread that is the opposite.

This would be true if Workshop users hadn't been actively attacking the rest of the community beforehand. Furthermore, they started doing something that has long been criticized, why is it us starting drama if we criticize them? You only think that way because you agree with everything they're doing.

actually, why can't you just leave them alone? why aren't you happy that the community gets more mods? even if they may be ports, you're still getting more mods for the gam and that's what matters at the end of the day.

And there it is again- integrity and respect doesn't matter, you just want more mods. Thanks for proving my point.

i understand their situation, and simply not choose to argue over that, unlike most of y'all that can't understand, and or research simple things like country laws.

For someone who repeatedly boasts about doing research, you don't seem to have actually looked into the previous conversation much. We already acknowledged Russia's laws. They still lump pedophiles with the LGBT+ community as though they are the same thing. Here's the link so you can do more research on what we said: https://mb.srb2.org/threads/what-in-the-world-is-srb2-workshop.38358/post-615742