Metal Knuckles & Tails Doll - Sonic R Characters

Metal Knuckles & Tails Doll - Sonic R Characters V1.1.1

EnderCreep2709

Just call me Ender
You think you're slick?

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Metal Knuckles is definitely a pretty good character. He feels like the AltSonic version of Knuckles. There are a few problems I'd like to see ironed out, though.
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As Pyrakid said before, pressing jump does not turn the camera around, and pressing spin does nothing. Not only that, but the camera does not zoom out when climbing, like it does with Knuckles, although maybe that's justified since Metal Knuckles can't climb upwards.
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Super Metal Knuckles does not create shockwaves when landing or grabbing onto a wall. I find this odd, since he has a super form by default (though I guess Super Metal Sonic never had an additional ability). Also, Metal Sonic's super color is a metallic version of Super Sonic's, so I think Metal Knuckles' super color should be a metallic version of Super Knuckles' instead of just having Metal Sonic's super color.
I enjoy Metal Knuckles' moves a lot here. I seem to be a sucker for charge moves, so the 'glide' and jump climb are very fun to mess around with. The boost mode just makes it even better.

But Tails Doll... eugh. Maybe I'm just bad at playing him, but he is the absolute jankiest character I have ever played. His floaty "jump", if you can even call it that, feels more like he's being dragged upward by a fishing rod, and his barrier is just an okay ability. The ragdolling is kind of odd looking too, though I guess that's the point. I vastly prefer the other Tails Doll mod on this message board.

Overall, Metal Knuckles far outshines Tails Doll, but I look forward to any new updates that will be released.

I agree with the changes pitched for MK! Would appreciate that little bit of extra polish to make him more fun to use.

As for Tails Doll, I have to disagree. I actually ran through the game as him and he is SUPER strong, he just feels really weird and janky till you get used to him. But after playing through it all, he's actually crazy good.
 

Saturn Ross

The Local Bird-Brain
Okay- adding onto my last post, I ran into a bug while finishing a Tails Doll run. When battling Brak Eggman, I SIGSEV'd when using Tails Doll's barrier on Brak as he was attacking and while the barrier was taking damage, with both the rockets and flamethrower. I assume that it crashes because the barrier is both doing damage and taking damage? It hasn't occurred anywhere else to my knowledge.

Also, remember last post where I mentioned Tails Doll's ragdoll physics going crazy were caused by going above top speed via spring? Turns out it was the Momentum mod's doing, but I can still trigger it by using speed shoes and reaching the same speed with proper setup- but you go back under that physics-breaking fairly quick without Momentum loaded and it doesn't mess with the controls, so I don't think it's that important to fix. It's kinda funny anyways!
 

SilverVortex

fuck not again *lights hand on fire*
this is an absolutely phenomenally made character pack, i absolutely adore these two! i've seen a lot of character packs in the past (and duos in general), and i've had little trouble figuring out which of two in the packs i've liked more. this however, is the first exception. i absolutely cannot decide who i like more!

anyway, i love both of these guys. tails doll's floatiness and ragdoll physics make him an absolutely hilarious experience, and adding an instashield-like ability was a smart move. metal knuckles, on the other hand, is one of my favourite speedrunning characters, with his wall spindash and his strategy-focused chargeglide.
all in all, truly a duo worth checking out absolutely immediately and some of my favourite mods of all time, genuinely.
 

CobaltBW

Community Noise Maker
Sonic Team Junior
Congrats on the release! I haven't had time to try these out, but just from the previews, the production quality on these looks wild; love those ragdoll limbs on Tails Doll!
 
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Metal Sonic is a robot based on Sonic. His design is based on Sonic, his abilities are based on Sonic, and he's meant to be a perfect copy of Sonic. Therefore, it would only make sense for his super color, which is yellow, to be based on Sonic's, which is also yellow. Metal Knuckles is the exact same, except based on Knuckles. Therefore, Metal Knuckles' super color should be based on Knuckles', since Metal Knuckles is designed to copy Knuckles. Not only that, but Metal Sonic is technically a hedgehog, and hedgehogs seem to be the ONLY species that have a super color that's not a glowing version of their original color, and Metal Knuckles is NOT a hedgehog.

unlike Knuckles, Metal Knuckles is a robot and likely uses the same internal components as Metal Sonic, and would likely glow the same colour

By your logic, since both Sonic and Knuckles AREN'T robots, shouldn't they have the same super color too? No, because they're different characters, just like how Metal Sonic and Metal Knuckles are different characters.

I don't know how you'd make a robot glow a different Super Colour,

Why does it matter if he's a robot? I highly doubt that Metal Sonic was built to go super, since Sonic CD happens before Sonic 2, where Super Sonic became a thing. Super forms are just a natural thing that happens to everyone, even robots. And since everyone else just gets their own super color when they go Super, why shouldn't Metal Knuckles? And wait, didn't you just say that since both Metals use the same internal components, they would glow the same color? Does that mean if they used different components the colors would be different? I fail to see any logic in this post.
 
This...this plays FANTASTICALLY! Their gameplay styles are unique enough that sets them apart from the others and the sprite quality is on par with the official sprites of SRB2!
I actually think these'd be most viable 2.3 Character Additions, as that way we could have Team Sonic and their Robotic Counterparts

agreed it have some potential adittion
 

GXP3000

Alligator in the North
Metal Sonic is a robot based on Sonic. His design is based on Sonic, his abilities are based on Sonic, and he's meant to be a perfect copy of Sonic. Therefore, it would only make sense for his super color, which is yellow, to be based on Sonic's, which is also yellow. Metal Knuckles is the exact same, except based on Knuckles. Therefore, Metal Knuckles' super color should be based on Knuckles', since Metal Knuckles is designed to copy Knuckles. Not only that, but Metal Sonic is technically a hedgehog, and hedgehogs seem to be the ONLY species that have a super color that's not a glowing version of their original color, and Metal Knuckles is NOT a hedgehog.



By your logic, since both Sonic and Knuckles AREN'T robots, shouldn't they have the same super color too? No, because they're different characters, just like how Metal Sonic and Metal Knuckles are different characters.



Why does it matter if he's a robot? I highly doubt that Metal Sonic was built to go super, since Sonic CD happens before Sonic 2, where Super Sonic became a thing. Super forms are just a natural thing that happens to everyone, even robots. And since everyone else just gets their own super color when they go Super, why shouldn't Metal Knuckles? And wait, didn't you just say that since both Metals use the same internal components, they would glow the same color? Does that mean if they used different components the colors would be different? I fail to see any logic in this post.

To be fair, Sonic's super form being yellow is due to the color simply being a complementary color of blue. (Though, later repurposed to just be the default color of hedgehog super forms due to black and white not having actual direct complementary colors since most colors work with it.) The other characters in S3&K couldn't really follow through with their complementary colors, though can't really confirm it, due to palette reasons.

Now the thing with Metal Sonic. There's technically no canon super form for Metal Sonic, but the colors in SRB2 mostly references Mecha's super colors in S3&K where he's more of an orange-ish yellow/gold due to that being a complementary color of dark blue. I could leave it at that, but there's more of a real life explanation to why that's the super color. Metal is quite the malleable material when it comes to most things in life, but we'll be focusing on the heat aspect since this has to do with energy as well. With heat, metal can change it's current color into a multitude of different colors with tempering, which includes the current colors of Super Metal Sonic in SRB2 or Mecha Sonic in S3&K. There's technically some shades of red, but they aren't as prominent as the yellows/oranges. Due to that, Metal Knux would be left with a similar/or the exact same super color like Metal Sonic instead of something akin to what Knuckles has for super colors. There's also the fact that going with any other higher colors would indicate that they're at a point where they'll most likely just shut off due to overheating from the inside.

So all in all, most metallic characters will usually end up with Metal Sonic's super colors unless the creator wants to choose something else, which is something we can all respect.
 
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To be fair, Sonic's super form being yellow is due to the color simply being a complementary color of blue. (Though, later repurposed to just be the default color of hedgehog super forms due to black and white not having actual direct complementary colors since most colors work with it.) The other characters in S3&K couldn't really follow through with their complementary colors, though can't really confirm it, due to palette reasons.

Now the thing with Metal Sonic. There's technically no canon super form for Metal Sonic, but the colors in SRB2 mostly references Mecha's super colors in S3&K where he's more of an orange-ish yellow/gold due to that being a complementary color of dark blue. I could leave it at that, but there's more of a real life explanation to why that's the super color. Metal is quite the malleable material when it comes to most things in life, but we'll be focusing on the heat aspect since this has to do with energy as well. With heat, metal can change it's current color into a multitude of different colors with tempering, which includes the current colors of Super Metal Sonic in SRB2 or Mecha Sonic in S3&K. There's technically some shades of red, but they aren't as prominent as the yellows/oranges. Due to that, Metal Knux would be left with a similar/or the exact same super color like Metal Sonic instead of something akin to what Knuckles has for super colors. There's also the fact that going with any other higher colors would indicate that they're at a point where they'll most likely just shut off due to overheating from the inside.

So all in all, most metallic characters will usually end up with Metal Sonic's super colors unless the creator wants to choose something else, which is something we can all respect.

Highly disagree with this. I think it's fairly obvious that if Sonic Team made MK an official playable character, he would glow pinkish-red, like Knuckles does, as he's a direct metallic counterpart.

It's the same reason why everyone in Sonic Mania Plus except Sonic glows from their base color; because it's consistent, and it's how the original games did it. Having Knuckles glow yellow/orange is not only strange, but gets rid of that "parallel" aspect the Metal characters have.

A good example is Super Neo Metal Sonic, in the IDW comics. He glows yellow, like Sonic, because he is a counterpart to Sonic. If we're getting really specific here, in SMA Part 5, Metal Sonic doesn't even glow at all, and only gains a yellow aura, because let's face it, he's made of metal, and he's painted, so his paint would have to change color.

For these reasons, I think it makes far more sense that MK would glow reddish pink instead of orangey yellow.
 

Pc-98 Fan

Back to play SRB2 again!
Highly disagree with this. I think it's fairly obvious that if Sonic Team made MK an official playable character, he would glow pinkish-red, like Knuckles does, as he's a direct metallic counterpart.

It's the same reason why everyone in Sonic Mania Plus except Sonic glows from their base color; because it's consistent, and it's how the original games did it. Having Knuckles glow yellow/orange is not only strange, but gets rid of that "parallel" aspect the Metal characters have.

A good example is Super Neo Metal Sonic, in the IDW comics. He glows yellow, like Sonic, because he is a counterpart to Sonic. If we're getting really specific here, in SMA Part 5, Metal Sonic doesn't even glow at all, and only gains a yellow aura, because let's face it, he's made of metal, and he's painted, so his paint would have to change color.

For these reasons, I think it makes far more sense that MK would glow reddish pink instead of orangey yellow.

agree.
it's weird seeing Metal Knuckles having that orange yellow color when becoming super.
it's really out of place more than anything
 
agree.
it's weird seeing Metal Knuckles having that orange yellow color when becoming super.
it's really out of place more than anything

Definitely. If we went by the logic of him having yellow as his color, then logically Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Fang would all have other supercolors as well.
 

Simon_T

Pyro the Setsuna Fan
I actually like MK's supercolor
MS's one is based off his Dash Mode ability, which is also an powered-up state of sorts
And MK also has the Dash Mode, so it fits, because that orange-ish glowing is just overflowing energy, not their painting
Think about Inazuma's titular character and his new green Super form
Super Inazuma is actually golden, but his overflowing electric powers, which are cyan, do mix up with his golden fur, resulting in that green-ish hue
 
I actually like MK's supercolor
MS's one is based off his Dash Mode ability, which is also an powered-up state of sorts
And MK also has the Dash Mode, so it fits, because that orange-ish glowing is just overflowing energy, not their painting
Think about Inazuma's titular character and his new green Super form
Super Inazuma is actually golden, but his overflowing electric powers, which are cyan, do mix up with his golden fur, resulting in that green-ish hue

I disagree.

MS's isn't based on his Dashmode, it's just that SuperGold is too bright for Metal Sonic. His Dashmode color is different, being more vibrant.

Also, Inazuma is an OC, and I'm not going to consider that when thinking about how to make a character look more official, which is what I personally look for in character mods of actual characters.
 

CobaltBW

Community Noise Maker
Sonic Team Junior
Super colors for Sonic characters tend to be based on their standard color, in the sense that characters with cool colors receive a golden hue, while characters with warm colors receive a pink or white hue.

S3 Mecha Sonic's super form is a darker golden, so it actually follows the formula I just mentioned -- Metal Sonic's super form in SRB2 isn't too far off from this, only in that it contains a bit more red than yellow. It seem like there's room for interpretation here, but my guess is that for Metal Knuckles, a similar orange or pink color would follow all previously set conventions the most closely.
 

BioHazard

Member
Very high quality spriting and design, well done!

And oh wow! seeing other's comment here, i feel like i might be on the minority who likes Tails Doll more than Metal Knux.

Love his ragdoll physics, and i think the spazzing adds to the charm, he really does feel like a doll being dragged around. His abilities are pretty fun to use too, using his regular powers combined with the Air Shield just lets you soar through huge gaps.
I also liked how you backed away from his usual spooky creepypasta personality that was given to him by the community, though i would have prefered if you kept him more ambiguous and "uncanny" so anyone can project their idea of the doll on it, rather than making it outright silly, but this is a nice change of pace from the usual scary doll.
I do feel like maybe he could use another offensive ability, something like controlling badniks, telekinesis or just a laser for something less crazy.
Also, his immunity to harmful floors, intentional or not, should stay since it is a floating doll after all.

As for Metal Knux, he's also really fun. His spriting really does make him look very badass, nice contrast to Tails Doll. Though i do feel like his personality overlaps a bit with Metal Sonic's but i guess you can only go so far with a robotic clone.
His "Stop-n-Go" kind of gameplay is very interesting, as most of his abilities have you charge up in place before blasting away as huge speeds, really makes you feel like a powerful and unstoppable machine.

Overall, very good duo! They could both totally stand alongside the vanilla cast.
 
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time gear

Eternity in an hour
My headcanon on the color change for super characters is this:

It's not that it's not that their fur itself is changing color, but rather that the glow of the chaos energy imbued in them by the emeralds is overpowering to the point that they appear to have changed color.

For example, for Mecha Sonic, it's not that he actually changed to a more golden color, it's that he has a glowing golden aura, and it's so bright that the gold overpowers the blue, causing you to be unable to see anything other than gold.

For characters that for whatever reason are less able to resonate with the power of the emeralds, the glow is weaker and slowly flickers on and off. It's something akin to a half-transformation rather than a full super transformation. No certain idea why Knuckles has pink however. If I had to take a stab at it, I would say pink is probably the truest, purest color a super form can take, but that only Knuckles resonates with the emeralds in such a way as to obtain that color due to him being the Emerald Guardian. Simply put, Knuckles knows how to resonate with them better than Sonic, and perhaps was even trained to at a young age.

As for Metal Sonic in Mania Adventures, It could be that the Metal Sonic of the Mania timeline/dimension is specifically programmed to be able to properly resonate with the emeralds after Mecha Sonic's failure. As such, instead of burning through the power in all at once short burst like Mecha did, Metal has internal circuitry that is designed to regulate the power so as to give him a longer, more controlled super state. He doesn't glow so strongly as to hide his blue paint, but does change his eye color to yellow to indicate that he's switched over to using the emeralds as his primary fuel source.
 

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