StephChars v4 - Echoes Of The Abyss Update v4.2

[HenryStickminFan2]

I should also not even grace this question with an answer considering everything I've talked about, but the answer is no.

ok. i should've known. sorry.

 

[stupidguy]

hi

been lurking around a bit and would like to clarify some things for the sake of it, also i just like to talk about my thought process a lot

I know you probably mean well but I always hate it when my characters are boiled down to "a copy of [X]" or "literally just [X] character" because its just reductive as hell to the work behind it all. It is true that most of my characters' movesets are indeed similar or directly lifted off other existing characters, but they're almost* never 1:1 and they are instead adapted into SRB2. They're inspirations, they are adapted into the game.
*the exception is jana, who is arguably the worse designed and balanced out of the current 4 in my honest opinion lol. definitely needs a rework

Take Skip, for instance, who is "a copy of Hat Kid" - I can say that the diving and shield abilities were indeed heavily inspired by the game, however even those have its own differences. The dives work somewhat differently (If you've played A Hat In Time, you'll know how restrictive the dive is in comparison to Skip), and Skip's crafting is basically unique to him, any comparisons to Hat Kid at that point are a massive stretch (Using wool to craft new hats, i guess?? but that's like, a permanent upgrade instead of a resource you keep using and the abilities are WILDLY different). Then there's the smug dance which is the most direct reference to the game, but that's just a taunt. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things, its just there for flavor.

TL;DR no one is ""meant"" to be a copy of anyone. they are inspirations, and I work heavily to adapt them into SRB2 to make a unique gameplay experience, or at least a fun one


This is also a misunderstanding of my wording - As far as I can recall, I've never said that.
What I did say, in that very sentence, was in the context of Kart, not SRB2 - that I would update that thread with future characters. When I first wrote that sentence, Skip was the only character released for Kart, so I was pointing out the rest of his friends were gonna join him eventually. I did plan on making Echoes for Kart (see how she's the only one missing out of the full group), but I never got around to it as I really wanted to give her a unique kart, possibly Abyss himself. And then Ring Racers came out, so...

Funnily enough, that old idea kind of ended up happening with her SRB2 release with the rushchars boat.
In short - I don't like to make promises on projects I'll make. I just work on what I want to work at the moment and chip away at it. If I'm planning to make more characters, you'll hear it from me when I release them.


This actually gives me the opportunity to point out how much I regret having added unreleased characters to the Mindscape dialogue.
Back then, I was under the impression that I wouldn't be able to add dialogue through my own characters and exclusively needed to have them on the Silverhorn release, prompting me to add and write dialogue for all the projects I currently had either lined up, or planned to work on at some point in the future, just in case.
The biggest mistake there was not expecting people to datamine them and showcase them publicly, and start speculating about what comes next. It all but convinced me to never talk about my projects openly again. Worst part is that back then, I was convinced Kou was about to release and Echoes would begin development soon there after, only for literal years to go by.
So yeah. That's why TUSK is there. Back then, I was certain I'd work on him at some point - but now, I'm not so sure if I can or want to.

As a final addendum, I want to talk about the future of StephChars. Truth be told, I'm not sure how things are gonna go.

My interest in SRB2 fluctuates a lot nowadays, and seeing multiple people wonder what's next almost immediately after the latest release, it definitely makes it tough to want to work on anything SRB2 related. Despite being hard at work for a long time, it always seems to be about what's next, and not enjoying what's currently here. It's always about who the next character is going to be, what their gameplay is gonna be, so on and so forth. Some people outright telling me what they should be, what game it should rip off this time, as if they knew better. It was disappointing to see, to the point I actively deleted comments like that in Echoes' release trailer because they were just plain demoralizing.
It felt as if I was a souless machine that pumped out content and not a real person with hopes and dreams. I've been asked "where's [X] character" more times than I can count, one time someone was CONVINCED I was gonna make Sans when I had never expressed the interest in doing so, and they had the gall to be annoyed about it.
It's all so frustrating to deal with.

I will say though, that through the gloom and doom the actually nice comments usually outweigh the bad, and I thank you all so much for it. But everyone has a breaking point. I'm not saying this is it, of course, but it sure as hell ain't tempting to keep chugging along like nothing's wrong. And what with the recent mod leaks situation, I'm not sure I want to be part of a community that houses so many people who have no respect towards artists and their craft, and just see them as toys to play with and reassemble at their leisure.

I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but Echoes' trailer is the longest one I've made, one with a little story to itself, tying up my loose ends and including everyone from V4, as well as featuring a pretty lengthy ending sequence with credits and no teaser for what comes next. I set out to make it have a sense of finality. If she ended up being the last character I worked on, it would have at least ended nice and tidy, with nothing left to say. As of writing this, I'm not sure if I'll work on StephChars again. I still believe there's a chance I will, after all, I do want to have the gang reunite in its entirety (and give jana her gf back lol), but I cannot in good faith promise that I will. I guess you'll find out if and when I shadowdrop the next goober on the list.

Thanks for reading.
Didn't mean to make it an essay but this mod is really special to me.
It's very personal, and I hope that my work managed to lift up your spirits even if for a little bit.

you did indeed lift up my spirits with stephchars man, i find everyone especially echoes cool and unique in their own ways - and not just because they're inspired by multiple different games. although this isn't the place to make a review lol
anyways. the people constantly wondering what's next is a case of people being so hyped that they never stop to look at what already exists (AKA what has already been said in the post.) NO i am not defending them for that. those who actively say "this is what the next guy will be like" and that person who wanted sans so bad are even worse. and let's not forget the leakers and "tweakers". if someone wants a mod to be different so bad then why don't they go to the workshop or smth, that's where the tweaks and whatnot go, and if they're an impatient leaker, learn how to be patient. leaks absolutely SUCK. also rinkus if you're reading this THERE ARE TLDRS RIGHT THERE IN STEPH'S POST.
if you do make another stephchar, take your time instead of rushing it to satisfy people, and try to make leaks less likely. if you don't then that's fine too, these 4 will be remembered for a while as is.
ok my ramble session is done, to those who read this all the way through i'm proud of you... bye i guess i dunno how to end this

 

[RedLilyQueen]

Look, I'm going to be completely honest here. I don't think your thoughts were "dismissed". That was simply one guy wanting a tldr. If you wanted everyone to focus on one thing, you could've just make a separate topic. BOOM! Problem solved. I don't see anyone treating artists as content machines. And even if people were, this isn't a great example of one. I really don't get what you mean by that, because in the end, it's your choice. No one is forcing you. If you want to take a break or do whatever, that's your decision. So, uh yeah that's that.

You DO realize you, yourself, are actively dismissing DrStephen's thoughts and concerns by saying all this, right? Literally, to me this reads as "nahhh you're making too big a deal about this, it's fine actually". The creator of the damn topic sharing their misgivings about how people treat them over their own mod is absolutely "on-topic" for it if you ask me.

Like, seriously, I get a lot of you are probably young but a lot of you need to learn some social etiquette. After all this I wouldn't blame *anyone* for not wanting to have anything to do with this community going forward. God knows I'm creating Ring Racers maps for myself first, but even then I can't imagine just how sick Stephen must be of this shit, because I haven't dealt with it at all.

For whatever it's worth to say it myself, I really love StephChars. They're all real fun and unique, and mainstays of the character mods I usually load up.StephChars alone is so much, and between that and the rest of your characters, DrStephen, you've made phenomenal contributions to SRB2. Maimy's one of my absolute favorite characters to play, too. While I will say I think at least some of "ok what's next" type enthusiasm is a sort of misguided expression of people already really liking what you've put out so far, that doesn't at all change the way it has made, and makes you feel- nor that people are petulantly clawing and clamoring for more in the first place without expressing any gratitude for what's already been given.

Need I remind you all that DrStephen made this all for minimal personal benefit? Sure, they're most likely all characters with play styles Stephen likes using, but they graciously shared the characters for the whole community to use- which they absolutely did and do not *need* to do. Let alone the complete lack of monetary gain, the massive expenditure of time on development...
All this to say, treat them, and everyone else making mods, with some damn respect, and express some gratitude for what you've already been given rather than focusing on what *could* be next, or let alone what you want from them next. God, do NOT badger mod creators to make whatever your idea is. Learn to make it yourself if you want it so bad. Remember the person behind the mods and BE NICE. Okay?

 

[rinkusbinkus]

You DO realize you, yourself, are actively dismissing DrStephen's thoughts and concerns by saying all this, right? Literally, to me this reads as "nahhh you're making too big a deal about this, it's fine actually". The creator of the damn topic sharing their misgivings about how people treat them over their own mod is absolutely "on-topic" for it if you ask me.

Like, seriously, I get a lot of you are probably young but a lot of you need to learn some social etiquette. After all this I wouldn't blame *anyone* for not wanting to have anything to do with this community going forward. God knows I'm creating Ring Racers maps for myself first, but even then I can't imagine just how sick Stephen must be of this shit, because I haven't dealt with it at all.

For whatever it's worth to say it myself, I really love StephChars. They're all real fun and unique, and mainstays of the character mods I usually load up.StephChars alone is so much, and between that and the rest of your characters, DrStephen, you've made phenomenal contributions to SRB2. Maimy's one of my absolute favorite characters to play, too. While I will say I think at least some of "ok what's next" type enthusiasm is a sort of misguided expression of people already really liking what you've put out so far, that doesn't at all change the way it has made, and makes you feel- nor that people are petulantly clawing and clamoring for more in the first place without expressing any gratitude for what's already been given.

Need I remind you all that DrStephen made this all for minimal personal benefit? Sure, they're most likely all characters with play styles Stephen likes using, but they graciously shared the characters for the whole community to use- which they absolutely did and do not *need* to do. Let alone the complete lack of monetary gain, the massive expenditure of time on development...
All this to say, treat them, and everyone else making mods, with some damn respect, and express some gratitude for what you've already been given rather than focusing on what *could* be next, or let alone what you want from them next. God, do NOT badger mod creators to make whatever your idea is. Learn to make it yourself if you want it so bad. Remember the person behind the mods and BE NICE. Okay?

another wall of text

 

[RedLilyQueen]

another wall of text

Read or say nothing.

 

[SaturnZ]

You DO realize you, yourself, are actively dismissing DrStephen's thoughts and concerns by saying all this, right? Literally, to me this reads as "nahhh you're making too big a deal about this, it's fine actually". The creator of the damn topic sharing their misgivings about how people treat them over their own mod is absolutely "on-topic" for it if you ask me.

Like, seriously, I get a lot of you are probably young but a lot of you need to learn some social etiquette. After all this I wouldn't blame *anyone* for not wanting to have anything to do with this community going forward. God knows I'm creating Ring Racers maps for myself first, but even then I can't imagine just how sick Stephen must be of this shit, because I haven't dealt with it at all.

For whatever it's worth to say it myself, I really love StephChars. They're all real fun and unique, and mainstays of the character mods I usually load up.StephChars alone is so much, and between that and the rest of your characters, DrStephen, you've made phenomenal contributions to SRB2. Maimy's one of my absolute favorite characters to play, too. While I will say I think at least some of "ok what's next" type enthusiasm is a sort of misguided expression of people already really liking what you've put out so far, that doesn't at all change the way it has made, and makes you feel- nor that people are petulantly clawing and clamoring for more in the first place without expressing any gratitude for what's already been given.

Need I remind you all that DrStephen made this all for minimal personal benefit? Sure, they're most likely all characters with play styles Stephen likes using, but they graciously shared the characters for the whole community to use- which they absolutely did and do not *need* to do. Let alone the complete lack of monetary gain, the massive expenditure of time on development...
All this to say, treat them, and everyone else making mods, with some damn respect, and express some gratitude for what you've already been given rather than focusing on what *could* be next, or let alone what you want from them next. God, do NOT badger mod creators to make whatever your idea is. Learn to make it yourself if you want it so bad. Remember the person behind the mods and BE NICE. Okay?

First off, chill out. No need to sound like you're about to pop a blood vessel lol. I wasn't even dismissing his thoughts. He was being melodramatic about the whole thing. As I said before, if he wanted people to focus about one thing, he could have made another thread about the issue. Furthermore, I'm not even going to read all of what you said, because I know for a fact that you are going to make an egregious point that makes no sense. I'm just going to read the last part. I'm being nice. Did I insult him? No. Was I being respectful? Yes. I gave an idea of a way he could express his disappointment, while also keeping people on the sole topic.

The way you are acting is a perfect example of what I call someone wanting to be hurt. Just looking at the bad in what someone is saying so you have something to argue about. Look pal, I'm not gonna entertain you. I know you're going to respond with something totally negative in order to spark a response. This is all I'm going to respond with. Just saying. :P

 

[Someonehere]

-please take note of this whoevver reads this
This comes after the X Sonic discussion problem. What comes next—a fresh SMS mod argument?
Sheesh, we have to stop this before it's too late.
I'm just calling for peace before it's all over, by the way. We need to lock in and make peace with each other or else the entire game might be taken off, but "who knows." Still, could we please just focus on the fact that we were most likely the cause of everything? "Maybe even me" NOT A CONTROVERSY
*also not askin for people jumping on me for saying this please

 

[SaturnZ]

another wall of text

Yep. Half of what bro is saying doesn't make a lick of sense tbh.

 

[DrStephen]

First off, chill out. No need to sound like you're about to pop a blood vessel lol. I wasn't even dismissing his thoughts. He was being melodramatic about the whole thing. As I said before, if he wanted people to focus about one thing, he could have made another thread about the issue. Furthermore, I'm not even going to read all of what you said, because I know for a fact that you are going to make an egregious point that makes no sense. I'm just going to read the last part. I'm being nice. Did I insult him? No. Was I being respectful? Yes. I gave an idea of a way he could express his disappointment, while also keeping people on the sole topic.

The way you are acting is a perfect example of what I call someone wanting to be hurt. Just looking at the bad in what someone is saying so you have something to argue about. Look pal, I'm not gonna entertain you. I know you're going to respond with something totally negative in order to spark a response. This is all I'm going to respond with. Just saying. :P

I'll try to keep brief since it seems you're not interested in reading past a few lines.

Yes, little to nothing of what I said in my original message was acknowledged, and in fact, was mocked for being too long. That's dismissive. The user who replied was clearly not looking for a TL;DR, otherwise they would have said so. (In fact, see how they continue to mock long messages)
No, I do not have to make another thread to talk about my own project and how I feel about it, this is literally its discussion thread.

I would engage in further discussion about this, but chances are you'll skim through my words and dismiss them yet again. You've clearly done so with RedLilyQueen's message, which was honestly very well put together.
If you genuinely think this response was made in anger and reduce it down to simply someone "wanting to be hurt" (absolutely wild statement, by the way) then I can't help you.

 

[*GOOFYRAT!*]

You DO realize you, yourself, are actively dismissing DrStephen's thoughts and concerns by saying all this, right? Literally, to me this reads as "nahhh you're making too big a deal about this, it's fine actually". The creator of the damn topic sharing their misgivings about how people treat them over their own mod is absolutely "on-topic" for it if you ask me.

Like, seriously, I get a lot of you are probably young but a lot of you need to learn some social etiquette. After all this I wouldn't blame *anyone* for not wanting to have anything to do with this community going forward. God knows I'm creating Ring Racers maps for myself first, but even then I can't imagine just how sick Stephen must be of this shit, because I haven't dealt with it at all.

For whatever it's worth to say it myself, I really love StephChars. They're all real fun and unique, and mainstays of the character mods I usually load up.StephChars alone is so much, and between that and the rest of your characters, DrStephen, you've made phenomenal contributions to SRB2. Maimy's one of my absolute favorite characters to play, too. While I will say I think at least some of "ok what's next" type enthusiasm is a sort of misguided expression of people already really liking what you've put out so far, that doesn't at all change the way it has made, and makes you feel- nor that people are petulantly clawing and clamoring for more in the first place without expressing any gratitude for what's already been given.

Need I remind you all that DrStephen made this all for minimal personal benefit? Sure, they're most likely all characters with play styles Stephen likes using, but they graciously shared the characters for the whole community to use- which they absolutely did and do not *need* to do. Let alone the complete lack of monetary gain, the massive expenditure of time on development...
All this to say, treat them, and everyone else making mods, with some damn respect, and express some gratitude for what you've already been given rather than focusing on what *could* be next, or let alone what you want from them next. God, do NOT badger mod creators to make whatever your idea is. Learn to make it yourself if you want it so bad. Remember the person behind the mods and BE NICE. Okay?

I'm gonna have to agree here.
(Also, EggpackRe is peak.)

 

[Someonehere]

I'm gonna have to agree here.
(Also, EggpackRe is peak.)

dude your back I didn't know It's been a while

 

[SaturnZ]

I'll try to keep brief since it seems you're not interested in reading past a few lines.

Yes, little to nothing of what I said in my original message was acknowledged, and in fact, was mocked for being too long. That's dismissive. The user who replied was clearly not looking for a TL;DR, otherwise they would have said so. (In fact, see how they continue to mock long messages)
No, I do not have to make another thread to talk about my own project and how I feel about it, this is literally its discussion thread.

I would engage in further discussion about this, but chances are you'll skim through my words and dismiss them yet again. You've clearly done so with RedLilyQueen's message, which was honestly very well put together.
If you genuinely think this response was made in anger and reduce it down to simply someone "wanting to be hurt" (absolutely wild statement, by the way) then I can't help you.

First, here's where you're kinda being over dramatic a bit, bud. One guy said your whole rant was too long. One. Yet, of course, you gotta assume the guy wasn't looking for a tldr, because yes. Second, I never said you had to make another thread. You're just blatantly complaining about a problem you could fix in seconds. But of course, you have to assume I'm being dismissive, because that's your thing. (Isn't it lol) And yes, I would probably skim through most of your words because yes, half of what you're saying is going to be repetition. "You're dismissive."

"But chances are you'll skim through my words and dismiss them yet again. You've clearly done so with RedLilyQueen's message, which was honestly very well put together." To prove my point further, I've read through all of that Lily's message. And a full blown paragraph is practically just complimenting your work, which isn't bad, just irrelevant to their argument (which is practically non-existent in itself). We can have a discussion, but I sincerely doubt you'll be able to make a competent argument without having to rely on the same thing again and again. But if you can, I'll be impressed.

 

[Someonehere]

GOD is anyone listening to me

 

[crystallinegazer]

Second, I never said you had to make another thread.

you literally did though. Twice.

If you wanted everyone to focus on one thing, you could've just make a separate topic. BOOM! Problem solved.

As I said before, if he wanted people to focus about one thing, he could have made another thread about the issue.

 

[SaturnZ]

you literally did though. Twice.

Sorry, I meant I never said he HAD to make another thread. I said he COULD. There's a difference.

 

[RedLilyQueen]

First, here's where you're kinda being over dramatic a bit, bud. One guy said your whole rant was too long. One. Yet, of course, you gotta assume the guy wasn't looking for a tldr, because yes. Second, I never said you had to make another thread. You're just blatantly complaining about a problem you could fix in seconds. But of course, you have to assume I'm being dismissive, because that's your thing. (Isn't it lol) And yes, I would probably skim through most of your words because yes, half of what you're saying is going to be repetition. "You're dismissive."

"But chances are you'll skim through my words and dismiss them yet again. You've clearly done so with RedLilyQueen's message, which was honestly very well put together." To prove my point further, I've read through all of that Lily's message. And a full blown paragraph is practically just complimenting your work, which isn't bad, just irrelevant to their argument (which is practically non-existent in itself). We can have a discussion, but I sincerely doubt you'll be able to make a competent argument without having to rely on the same thing again and again. But if you can, I'll be impressed.

I wasn't trying to argue with you in the first place. I briefly addressed what you said and then pivoted away to my own spiel. And I said some nice things about StephChars with the intent to uplift DrStephen, even if only a bit. Y'know, do something nice.
If anything, you're the one looking for the argument at this point- You've been and are still being all of rude, disrespectful, and insulting. While I find it kind of hard to believe you're still unaware of that fact, on the off-chance you are, here's some advice. Quit doubling down and walk away from the thread.

 

[DylanDude]

Sorry, I meant I never said he HAD to make another thread. I said he COULD. There's a difference.

There is literally not. You genuinely aren't interested in listening when the mod's artist asks you to stop, instead you just paint all of their venting as them being dramatic. I haven't seen anyone be this condescending and dismissive on this forum in a while, and that's not a low bar to clear.

BOOM! Problem solved. I don't see anyone treating artists as content machines.

Yep. Half of what bro is saying doesn't make a lick of sense tbh.

First, here's where you're kinda being over dramatic a bit, bud.

You're just blatantly complaining about a problem you could fix in seconds.

But of course, you have to assume I'm being dismissive, because that's your thing. (Isn't it lol)

We can have a discussion, but I sincerely doubt you'll be able to make a competent argument without having to rely on the same thing again and again. But if you can, I'll be impressed.

Sorry, I meant I never said he HAD to make another thread. I said he COULD. There's a difference.

Shame on you.

 

[MajorMajin64]

OK, dudes, ain't nobody in the right here, and nobody's in the wrong. There's valid points coming from both sides. I've read the majority of the paragraphs you people seem to default to writing when an argument is on the rise (ig I'm no different, though, lol), and I've come to say this.
How about we all calm down for a second, take a moment to reflect on ourselves, and consider the counterpoints being presented to us. No one's above anyone here, so it wouldn't hurt to try and see both sides of the argument. I'm talking to both SaturnZ and those on DrStephen's side.

 

[Someonehere]

I made a mistake my bad didn’t think this through, making peace is harder than i thought

 

[HenryStickminFan2]

balance has returned to the force, just in time for may the 4th!