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Simple character rebalancing
Version: 2, by TehRealSalt (Ya Gal Sal Here (σᴥσ)) TehRealSalt is offline
Developer Last Online: Jan 2020

Version: SRB2 Rating: (3 votes - 3.60 average)
Released: 12-27-2019 Last Update: 12-31-2019 Installs: 2
Characters Scripts

Not the most exciting add-on, but these are some extremely simple changes that help improve the gameplay flow of the new unlockable characters, while still attempting to stay faithful to their playstyles. The changes (and the reasoning behind each) are as follows:

Spoiler: Reasoning
- Amy was given a buff to enemy/monitor bouncing -- when she successfully times a hammer spin, she'll launch into the air, more-so if you chain multiple enemies!

Amy's appeal in vanilla is as a challenging platform character that respects the level design, so I didn't want to give her something too crazy, but she also was lacking in any tools to work with either.

However, after trying some Hammer Jump scripts, I thought it was too much & too easy to pull off at any time. I decided that buffing her bounces would give her an edge, call back to Hammer Jump-style moves, yet keep it more situational. While I did end up making it a bit strong, I think that's made up for with the situational opportunities to use it.

Ultimately, this ended up being one of my favorite move changes in this script!

- Amy's hearts were given bigger & more consistent hitboxes. Previously the hitbox size was pretty faithful to the sprite's size, but when trying to give other players shields in Coop, it felt really easy to whiff. Since the hearts have no use in PvP modes and are only used to help other players, I decided that it was fair for the hitboxes to be pretty big. The sprite was also previously offset into the ground, which only added to the disjointed feeling.

- Fang's gun has been sped up in several ways. It was given what I like to call "Quick Draw": if he locks onto a target, his next shot will be able to quickly lock onto another target! You can also use your gun at any speed, and keep your speed while you use it. Firing one shot too many, however, will give you an even longer cooldown and slow you down. If you chain multiple shots together, it'll also build a score chain!

The point of these changes were all an attempt to reduce the amount of "start & stop" when playing Fang. The score chaining is also to give it a bit of flavor from SA2, so you're encouraged to try and pick as many enemies off as you can in one motion. These changes mostly don't affect bosses, as the time window for Quick Draw ends before their flashing tics do. This is purely meant to make Fang's gameplay in normal levels have a bit more flow, without straying too far from what he's all about.

- Amy, Fang, and any custom characters that can't spin-jump can all use their abilities after taking a spring. This was done since the vanilla characters share their jump frames with their spring frames, so it feels more natural to me.

For Fang, this simply means he can start bouncing after a spring chain if he feels like it, not a huge buff but still a nice option. For Amy, it gives her a lot more options: she can hit enemies after taking springs (giving her hammer spin a trait that normal spin-jump characters don't have!), and it lets her decide which springs she wants to boost in a chain of multiple springs.

I might feel inclined to get rid of this if they ever do get their own unique jump frames, but I like the tiny edge it gives them in utility.

- Metal Sonic's Float ability has been replaced with a weak Jump Boost. When moving faster, he'll jump higher -- this stacks on top of the jump height increase you get from Dash Mode. It's a tiny boost, but it helps him out a LOT for maintaining Dash Mode, as it gets him past all of the ledges that are just a liiittle too high and it's impossible to maintain it any longer.

I imagine this will be the most controversial change, but I ended up really disliking Metal Sonic after I found out that Float is way more efficient for going fast than actually maintaining Dash Mode. It was simply too simple, and sapped my fun of the character out. Float was pretty fun in levels where you can use it in combination with Dash Mode (RVZ1 is a fantastic example), but those instances are pretty far between. The Jump Boost gives Metal Sonic an answer for most interruptions that would stop Dash Mode, as well as makes him more committal when he makes mistakes, making him feel a lot more satisfying to play for me.

- Metal Sonic builds Dash Mode twice as fast when charging a spindash. Not much to explain about this one. Even from a zero-speed stand-still, it simply was a lot slower to spindash than to simply run forward to charge Dash Mode. This change just makes it a viable option in more situations.


Spoiler: Changelog

v2:
  • Characters without a spin-jump (Amy, Fang) can now use their abilities after using a spring.
  • Gave Amy's heart particles a larger hitbox.
  • Adjusted the sprite offset of Amy's heart particles to make them more consistent with their hitbox.
  • Amy's bounce is now additive instead of multiplicative.
  • Fang has less cooldown on his gun overall.
  • Fang's Quick Draw score chain now has a leniency period where it doesn't expire.
  • Fixed Amy's extra bounce not applying to monitors.
  • Fixed Fang's shooting sometimes being able to turn you around.
v1:
  • Initial release


I originally only made this for myself so that I could enjoy the game a bit more, but I figured other people might also enjoy these changes.

Download Now

File Type: zip VL_charsrebalance-v2.zip (3.1 KB, 193 views)

Screenshots

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Comments
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #2
D00D64
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Welcome to releases!
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #3
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These are all fantastic changes! Amy's bounce gives her a much-needed tool for platforming (plus it makes crawla bouncing more fun than ever), Fang is now the most efficient character for wiping out groups of badniks quickly, and Metal doesn't feel so OP in a way that ruins my enjoyment playing as him anymore. I've only messed around with these abilities for a short time but I think these changes do quite a lot to bring the extra characters up (or in Metal's case, down) to the utility of the main trio. Nice work, I think this is one of those mods I'll be using almost all of the time now.


EDIT: I have a request:



Please don't nerf Amy's bounce it's too much fun lmao

Last edited by Jake; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:38 AM.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #4
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I fully agree with the sentiments behind the changes and think the ideas are good, but the execution leaves some things to be desired.

Amy's boost to bouncing is definitely fun, but feels way too strong. This is highlighted in basically every gif I've seen of it: a single bounce completely skips a chunk of Amy's intended path in ACZ1, a single bounce largely bypasses RVZ1's second outdoor section, and basically any level that presents the opportunity for bounce chains just ends up with hitting the ceiling way too soon (it took me just three bounces in GFZ1, at least). I love enemy/monitor bouncing as a mechanic (I've added many instances of and rewards for it in 2.2's campaign) and I like the boost for emphasizing it more, but there has to be a compromise that respects the level design more while staying fun. Even if there aren't too many opportunities to use it, and it's not exactly easy to pull off most of the time, I'd rather not see it make a joke out of many areas that do have them.

The changes to Fang's gun I like, but the longer cooldown feels a bit excessive. It also doesn't trigger in all cases, at least it seems to break in cases where solid midtextures block the cork from hitting a targeted enemy.

Metal feels kinda naked without any active jump ability, even if that's an improvement over the overpowered floating. Even something weak or highly situational would help, I think.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #5
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I agree Amy's bounce boost is fun as fuck but sorta ridiculous. I love the way Fang plays now though, but I wish he was still only able to aim at enemies in front of him. Too many times have I lined up a few enemies, only for Fang to snap 180 once he starts firing and it messes me up.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenhog View Post
I agree Amy's bounce boost is fun as fuck but sorta ridiculous. I love the way Fang plays now though, but I wish he was still only able to aim at enemies in front of him. Too many times have I lined up a few enemies, only for Fang to snap 180 once he starts firing and it messes me up.
Definitely agree. There also needs to be more of a cap on the vertical range of his gun too, since he tends to lock on to targets above/below the camera. Even with these fixes though, my main problem with fang (the gun animation) needs fixing. These changes would make gunning down enemies feel more fluid in my opinion:

- Shorter delay after firing
- More ground friction during the shot (right now it feels very slide-y)
- Give fang a higher acceleration value than the other characters, so he can get back to top speed after a shot
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #7
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@sphere:

The more I play with it the more I'm convinced the way I have Amy's bounce is perfect as is. It requires a long, *long* list of requirements. Good positioning, enemies to use, player skill, players in Coop not taking the good spots, so on. I've had to come to terms with Crawla bouncing being a niche skill that not a lot of people care to practice, so I think it's fine making it strong. Not to mention, it's basically competing with Hammer Jump, which reaches a higher base height with the press of a single button, compared to extra bounce being a weaker height gain against 1 enemy on flat ground that requires enemies to even use it on.

The current boost is x1.33, which is actually the spring boost given to horizontal springs, since I attempted the boost given to vertical springs (x1.2) and thought it was insanely weak and unnoticeable -- I don't want it to be something that's just there to be there, and doesn't actually impact the way you play the character. I may make it weaker, but probably not much weaker -- maybe x1.25.

----

By "miss", I mean "taking a shot without a target". I feel like actually giving you a longer cooldown because SRB2 has bad sight detection would be actually pretty unfair. "Whenever or not an arrow is on-screen before shooting" is much more fair from the player's perspective, because it's easy to identify what's wrong compared to sight-checking jank.

The literally just 10 more tics of cooldown is meant to cool down on over-aggression, since I made it even more aggressive -- if you don't waste your shots (like a Sniper would... just saying c;) then Fang is a extreme buff from vanilla. If you're hammering that Spin key, then he's only situationally buffed. I'm extremely happy with that balance.

----

I know a lot of people I talk to look at Metal's ability as a nerf... for how I play him it's honestly more of a buff. I actually think he's way stronger than before if you actually focus on Dash Mode. I mean clearly not having an enhanced Glide is a nerf overall, but the new ability combos with his Dash Mode way nicer.

That said, I don't mind giving him a primary ability, I just don't have any ideas. The only idea I liked (from Jeck Jims) was giving him Float again when he's in the water, since he doesn't have anything going for him in the water (and the bubble effect when he floats underwater is insanely cute), but I think that'd feel kind of inconsistent. "Something weak or highly situational" doesn't really give me any direction though sooooo

@Goldenhog: Fang's gun looking around 180 degrees was a simple oversight in the code -- this is fixed in the next version.

@Krabs: The whole point of the Fang rework here in the first place was to get rid of the need to stop. That kills any potential flow the character could have. The "slide" feeling is something I actually like, to the point I was considering implementing sprites where he's skidding on his heels while firing instead of standing. Needing to stop while firing makes the "needs to shoot his enemies with a gun" trait a downside, rather than a highlight or situational advantage of the character.
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Last edited by TehRealSalt; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:40 PM.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #8
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Personally I think Metal's fine like this. Historically he hasn't had many playable appearances in the series, but I always liked the idea of him being a version of Sonic that's much harder to control yet potentially more powerful in certain areas. The high jump makes me want to use boost mode, and it's great seeing how many areas I can skip by keeping up my speed as opposed to something boring like hovering around obstacles with his vanilla ability. This still lets him reach areas that Sonic normally can't or would have a harder time accessing.



As for Amy's bounce being too powerful... I see what people mean by that and actually agree to an extent, but that gif I posted? You can clear that room in TWO bounces with any character. From how long I've been playing with this mod, I haven't encountered any area that I managed to break considerably more than I could have with any other character's crawla bouncing, although I wouldn't be opposed to it being weakened for the sake of balancing. I feel like her not being able to spin or take advantage of ANY momentum-based obstacles in the game is a huge sacrifice as it is, so if a player is good enough to crawla bounce then I think this is a very satisfying reward for playing as her.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #9
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The problem with Amy's bounce is illustrated pretty well in the GIF of it on the release post. A single bounce skips a whole section of platforming in a way that other characters without free vertical ascension (Tails and Knuckles) can't. You can say it's okay because crawla bouncing is a high-skill technique, but this just means your buff is useless for people below a certain skill range and broken for people above it.

I think it'd be better as a constant (or capped to a constant) increase in bounce height instead of a multiplier that gets to a ridiculous height fairly quickly. Off the top of my head with no real testing, I'd start with (jumpfactor squared) units of extra height per bounce And adjust the number if it still feels useless. That would still allow a decent amount of extra height per bounce (and in particular would let her get directly to the end of RVZ's second room without needing the stepping stones at the end, if the extra height value is properly adjusted), but without reaching the point where a few bounces has you bonking any ceiling that isn't super high.

(If the problem there is "what's the math to get the thrust for that height?" the answer would be roughly newthrust = FixedSqrt(FixedMul(oldthrust, oldthrust) + additionalheight). Jump height is roughly the square of jump thrust in the normal gravity of 0.5.)

The logic: if the extra height is constant (as opposed to a multiplier or capped multiplier), it would convert a crawla bounce at any height into essentially a double jump. This would in particular benefit bounces from the same height as the start of your jump (or even closer to the peak), which would give the boost more utility for less-skilled players too!
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #10
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I didn't take too well to metal's rebalance at first, but after playing as him for a bit with this mod, I really like it! Haven't tried the other rebalances yet, though.
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Last edited by Scoobert; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:37 AM.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #11
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@fickle: I think that logic is much more sound than other arguments against it. I'll tinker around with the idea!
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #12
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Having played with Amy so far, It's something pretty neat but I do have a request.

Have Amy's hammer function like an insta-shield, where it can protect Amy from hazards for a split-second as well as reflect small projectiles
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #13
TehRealSalt
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Updated to v2, check the release post for more info
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #14
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This seems really cool and all, but maybe a version without metal changes could be a thing? I personally like what you've changed with metal, but I know a lot of people (Specifically in online servers) would not be okay with losing their "Screw platforming" button. Apart from that, these all seem like changes that can only benefit these somewhat underpowered characters (minus vanilla metal he's borked af)


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Old 1 Week Ago   #15
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Perhaps you could give Metal a version of the insta-shield like the other one released here in the Lua section? Give it the short invincibility and the extended attack collision, then you have a very skill based active, while still keeping the passive boost and jumping changes. You could make the graphics the yellow glowing aura he has in some games.
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