What in the world is SRB2 Workshop?

[DylanDude]

Yes, but should that result as a ban? Yes, he shouldn't had copy those sprites, but that should be more on a suspension side of things, no? We should only treat bans if they're either so annoying to devs or other people to that point (if he was please say so), or they never asked to port or edit a mod, or being a pedo. But these sprites were eventually going to be released in Ring Racers, right? I think we need to treat bans as a more extreme measure of punishment, not really for smaller scenarios like these. He should be suspended for a smaller period of time, not permanently shunned out of the community and exiled forever. But that's just my opinion, not gonna be regarded much here, is it?

You can appeal a ban, it is not permanent. Tracing people's unreleased art, pestering them for more art to trace, and then ignoring mods when they tell you to stop is not a minor infraction. They were banned from the community to stop them from spreading stolen art within it.

It is not fun for you as a developer/artist to have someone scraping your released material and stealing your art. All that makes you want to do is NOT show off what you're working on, which really ruins the fun for everyone involved. They asked Dirk to stop, but he did not. All Dirk had to do was wait for Ring Racers to release, but he did not.

 

[toaster]

We should only treat bans if they're either so annoying to devs or other people to that point (if he was please say so)

In this case it wasn't one poorly thought out action, but a continuous pattern of behaviour which needed a serious answer. Dirk has an extremely long history of trying to push other people's boundaries and use other people's artwork without permission, and I was one of them.

Maybe he could have been suspended if the moderation staff had caught him in the act sooner. But his history was a rabbit hole - it doesn't make sense to be lenient when you learn about the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, etc incidents all at once. That's somebody who needs to learn what they're doing is wrong.

He was a creator who was no slouch at his original work. It continues to baffle me why he wouldn't be satisfied with that and needed to disrespect others to satisfy his desires.

 

[ChaseSP]

Frankly, I think it's something to do with excusing how it's okay to take shortcuts if you're actually good at something because you know and have shown you can do it anyway. It's not really related to drawing but it's a pretty common thing among speedrunners to have people with a clear solid history to be revealed to cheat to get either a WR or very close if they're more subtle about it.

It's just a waste of good talent to be honest.

 

[Banjo268]

Anyone else feeling like that topics like these are basically becoming SRB2 politics lol

 

[Soniku11]

Anyone else feeling like that topics like these are basically becoming SRB2 politics lol

At this point, eh..More or less

 

[Trolo Bobo]

Avoid clockwork towers, It can delete your addons.

Wait, like from your addons folder? How does that work, is it a virus or something? Bit confused on that

 

[Lexthegamer95]

I already scanned that addon for Clockwork Towers if there's virus i don't see it.

 

[Sls64LGamingBro]

I already scanned that addon for Clockwork Towers if there's virus i don't see it.

SRB2 has never been a virus however, since there trying there best to make it not a virus in this game at all. There is no worry about it, unless if they forgot.

 

[shortnameswill]

Last I checked, these people were no longer debating here.

Can confirm, this shits boring as hell, maybe if there were more explosions I'd be interested.

 

[NeonifyNyan]

A lot of people on the MB made the argument that Sega doesn't care about what people make as long as it's not for profit, but if Nintendo DMCA'd so many videos about Nintendo fangames and then took those fangames down, doesn't mean that Sega can't do it as well as it's their own intellectual property, so they can freely sue STJR just like Nintendo did with other fangames. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't erase it from the realm of possibility, I don't get why modders somehow have more freedom with Sega's IP than Sega Themselves.

I've also seen people on this talking about how mods, are art, which is complete utter bullshit if most of the character mods that are in here are just different versions of Sonic with different abilities. If making mods can be creative, then why can't people actually use that creativity to actually make decent character mods that aren't only sonic, tails, etc... But actually make original content, you would need help, cause you can't make everything by yourself if you aren't a mastermind or something.

I'm gonna tie this back in on how the Open Assets/Reusable system does not work, I'm not gonna waste time and explain it, as somebody already did that, here:

I'm also gonna talk about Portlegs, while yes, they do damage the community, I don't see why they would be such a bad thing. If the original creator is no longer involved in the community and the mod becomes outdated, why am I not allowed to port it? Maybe if they do come back to the community and find their mod ported they might appreciate that somebody cared about their mod enough for them to take time and effort to port their mod to the latest version. Just because it's a portleg doesn't mean that there was no work put into actually PORTING it.

The reason why the workshop exists is because people who knew about these problems on the MB decided to make their own, but unfortunately because its creators are people who have been banned on the MB prior, it's only going to be seen as a sign of disrespect. (which seems to be the main bias about the WS.)

Of course, since this is my opinion, people are gonna reply to me, trying to combat my comment in any way possible, just because I don't have the same opinion as others do, that makes it so we will never reach an agreement to something and end up like this. The last comment was on October 21st, but that won't stop me from commenting on this just because its """dead""".

I have said my statement.

 

[Sandwichface]

Just because it's a portleg doesn't mean that there was no work put into actually PORTING it.

This is actually something I failed to talk about in my reusability video, but agree with wholeheartedly.

Yes, people put effort into portlegs. "Portleggers" don't just choose random old mods out of a hat then shit out a portleg using arcane magic, they're made the same way as literally ever other mod ever - with SLADE and a hell of a lot of patience.

Perhaps they're not all done perfectly, but you have to remember that a lot of portleggers aren't really what you'd call the cream of the crop when it comes to SRB2 modding. Some are even using portleg production as a learning experience, just like any of the lower quality mods you'd find on here.

 

[Cotton Candy 2C]

People not wanting their hardwork used in low quality garbage is bad now?

 

[Sandwichface]

People not wanting their hardwork used in low quality garbage is bad now?

You could say the same for any low quality mod on the MB that uses someone else's work in it.
Or any SRB2 mod at all, portleg or not.

 

[DylanDude]

I've also seen people on this talking about how mods, are art, which is complete utter bullshit if most of the character mods that are in here are just different versions of Sonic with different abilities.

Certain (or even most) mods lacking a specific trait doesn't somehow preclude all of them from being art. That's just a logical fallacy, and I don't even agree with the idea that those mods aren't art either. Something is not art because it's good. The worst films of all time are still art.

If making mods can be creative, then why can't people actually use that creativity to actually make decent character mods that aren't only sonic, tails, etc... But actually make original content, you would need help, cause you can't make everything by yourself if you aren't a mastermind or something.

Once again, you guys admit that your respect towards modders/their mods is entirely based on how much you like their stuff. You don't respect people for putting their free time into something unless you personally enjoyed it. It's not really a surprise you don't think you need their permission either.

The continued assertion that there are no character mods other than edits of the vanilla cast is easily disproven though. I recommend taking a dive through the Characters section sometime.

I'm not gonna waste time and explain it, as somebody already did that, here:

This video has already been addressed several times in this thread.

If the original creator is no longer involved in the community and the mod becomes outdated, why am I not allowed to port it? Maybe if they do come back to the community and find their mod ported they might appreciate that somebody cared about their mod enough for them to take time and effort to port their mod to the latest version.

This is the same mentality as "You should be grateful I reuploaded your work even though you asked me not to! It means I liked it!" You cannot presume to know what all modders will think in such a situation, so it's not worthwhile as an example.

The reason why the workshop exists is because people who knew about these problems on the MB decided to make their own

It exists because they (incorrectly) thought they could replace the MB.

trying to combat my comment in any way possible, just because I don't have the same opinion as others do

Yes, that is how discussions work. You posted in a thread, now you get replies. :P

 

[Cotton Candy 2C]

You could say the same for any low quality mod on the MB that uses someone else's work in it.
Or any SRB2 mod at all, portleg or not.

i never said i didn't think most mods on the mb are garbage, but like, i still think people should have the right to not let their stuff be used in said garbage

 

[DylanDude]

The argument that "The Workshop just exists to keep old mods alive!" is completely false. If it were true, then only portlegs would be allowed on the WS, but that site explicitly allows for edits of ALL non-reusable content, including contemporary mods. They just want to be able to edit people's stuff without permission. I'm noticing a lot of Workshop defenders only mentioning Portlegs. I wonder why?

Nothing the Workshop does is about respect. It's not out of care for the orphaned mods, as is claimed. Like I said, if you guys want to run your own site with your own rules, that's entirely fine. It's the disrespect of people's stated wishes (each modder has to choose whether their mod will be reusable or not) that's the problem. You can't ask us to leave you alone if you don't leave us alone.

The ultimate compromise here would be the WS banning edits of MB-exclusive mods that aren't marked as reusable. If a modder wants to, they can put their stuff on the WS. But this compromise cannot happen because the WS are not actually interested in "appreciating" mods as is claimed.

 

[SSNTin]

i will be honest, i use both the mb and ws, but i dont think there should be this much fuss over pixels on a screen, i think theres no problem in portlegging as long they put credit where credit is due (and the creator is no longer in the community for some time), same for reusability in general. this argument is one that will really never end so instead of just wasting time getting angry over different points of view, we could just be like "oh yeah that other site exists" and move on with our day. all i want is peace between these two awesome communities so why cant we have that?

 

[DylanDude]

i will be honest, i use both the mb and ws, but i dont think there should be this much fuss over pixels on a screen, i think theres no problem in portlegging as long they put credit where credit is due (and the creator is no longer in the community for some time), same for reusability in general. this argument is one that will really never end so instead of just wasting time getting angry over different points of view, we could just be like "oh yeah that other site exists" and move on with our day. all i want is peace between these two awesome communities so why cant we have that?

It's weird to ask for peace when one side started this and refuses to do the one thing that would stop it (respect our boundaries) LOL. We're not the ones dragging this out. If we ask you not to do something, you don't get to complain about being criticized when you do it.

 

[SSNTin]

It's weird to ask for peace when one side started this and refuses to do the one thing that would stop it (respect our boundaries) LOL. We're not the ones dragging this out. If we ask you not to do something, you don't get to complain about being criticized when you do it.

i mean why not just lock the thread (which could of been dond when things started getting out of hand) or somethin instead of pointing fingers, leaving it unlocked will only drag it out further and cause more unnecessay conflict

 

[C.D. Dinosaur]

i mean why not just lock the thread (which could of been dond when things started getting out of hand) or somethin instead of pointing fingers, leaving it unlocked will only drag it out further and cause more unnecessay conflict

If you don't like looking at people pointing fingers then, just, turn around