What in the world is SRB2 Workshop?

[Banjo268]

Since this thread is calm again, I do wanna pose a question here: what's the rule for banned and/or petty people? I know the first half was already answered, but why give someone respect for their work when they couldn't show enough respect to others (or whatever their situations were that caused a ban)? And what if they're petty, like Charyb brought up, "you can use my mod just not with this kthx". While I believe the creator has control with whether or not regarding ports, but at that point you're literally enforcing your own rules onto everyone else because you made a mod. I don't mind a creator's say, but that say can't be so controlling to the point where it dictates how I play the game entirely with the mod. Note that this is just me messing with the variables of the argument, that's all.

 

[glaber]

Basically you have to give credit to someone if you use their work no matter how bad they were.

 

[Rolly Polly Pal]

I'm obviously not an authority on the subject, but how it works I believe is that if they were banned for simple misbehavior then yes, you can still use their content provided you get permission if nonreusable and, of course, credit properly. If they're banned for extreme repeat offenses or serious fucked up reasons (like sapheros) then I think you just aren't allowed to use their work at all. Mods correct me if I'm wrong on this

 

[Banjo268]

If they're banned for extreme repeat offenses or serious fucked up reasons (like sapheros) then I think you just aren't allowed to use their work at all.

I know your answer isn't definitive like from the mods or anything, but can't you separate the art from the artist? This isn't like other games with bad people behind it, where buying it technically supports them, these are simply mods for a Sonic fangame. There's no money loss or anything like that. Still, I would like to hear from any mods (if I can) about this.

 

[Rolly Polly Pal]

I know your answer isn't definitive like from the mods or anything, but can't you separate the art from the artist? This isn't like other games with bad people behind it, where buying it technically supports them, these are simply mods for a Sonic fangame. There's no money loss or anything like that. Still, I would like to hear from any mods (if I can) about this.

Having written this last night before I went to bed, I realize now that what I wrote probably isn't very accurate.
The main examples I was thinking about for the latter were Sapheros and Sonic1983, however my memory might have been faulty on these specific instances. I remember when we found out that purps was actually Sapheros under an alt, DrStephen updated EggPack to immediately remove his contributions. Although thinking about it now, that might have been an intentional decision on Stephen's part due to a desire to avoid association with a pedophile. As for 1983, while it's true that people have gotten in trouble for trying to submit mods using his content (Top Down Port, Mikhael's map pack), I'm pretty sure they're all instances of mods containing original contributions from him (which could be seen as a form of ban evasion on 1983's part). If you were to do something like say, make a mod that uses one of his already published MB mods marked as reusable, you would be fine? Again mods correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is how I understand it.

 

[glaber]

I'm obviously not an authority on the subject, but how it works I believe is that if they were banned for simple misbehavior then yes, you can still use their content provided you get permission if nonreusable and, of course, credit properly. If they're banned for extreme repeat offenses or serious fucked up reasons (like sapheros) then I think you just aren't allowed to use their work at all. Mods correct me if I'm wrong on this

I have personal experience with this. My mod Dimension Glaber has content made by Sapheros in it for now, and if I want to continue using it I can, but Saphereos still has to be properly credited until such time that his work is removed. (There are plans for replacing his work)

 

[Dat Hedgehog Boi]

Since this thread is calm again, I do wanna pose a question here: what's the rule for banned and/or petty people? I know the first half was already answered, but why give someone respect for their work when they couldn't show enough respect to others (or whatever their situations were that caused a ban)? And what if they're petty, like Charyb brought up, "you can use my mod just not with this kthx". While I believe the creator has control with whether or not regarding ports, but at that point you're literally enforcing your own rules onto everyone else because you made a mod. I don't mind a creator's say, but that say can't be so controlling to the point where it dictates how I play the game entirely with the mod. Note that this is just me messing with the variables of the argument, that's all.

Sounds like your making up alot of "what if's" unless you have evidence of this happening in the past. What's the point of complaining about imaginary people being petty? Unless you have evidence. In that case I apologize and retract this statement

 

[Banjo268]

Sounds like your making up alot of "what if's" unless you have evidence of this happening in the past. What's the point of complaining about imaginary people being petty? Unless you have evidence. In that case I apologize and retract this statement

Ok, true, I don't think there is a case where someone had been petty over their mod (although please tell me if there is, that would be appreciated), there are banned people on the MB who made mods, no? So that definitely isn't a what-if statement, and I would actually extremely appreciate if someone clarified the rules on non-reusability on banned creators? I don't think we should be forced to respect work by banned people (yes I know some mods from banned members aren't legal but still).

 

[Frostiikin]

Having written this last night before I went to bed, I realize now that what I wrote probably isn't very accurate.
The main examples I was thinking about for the latter were Sapheros and Sonic1983, however my memory might have been faulty on these specific instances. I remember when we found out that purps was actually Sapheros under an alt, DrStephen updated EggPack to immediately remove his contributions. Although thinking about it now, that might have been an intentional decision on Stephen's part due to a desire to avoid association with a pedophile. As for 1983, while it's true that people have gotten in trouble for trying to submit mods using his content (Top Down Port, Mikhael's map pack), I'm pretty sure they're all instances of mods containing original contributions from him (which could be seen as a form of ban evasion on 1983's part). If you were to do something like say, make a mod that uses one of his already published MB mods marked as reusable, you would be fine? Again mods correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is how I understand it.

As a friend of his, I can confirm that Steph was never required to do so. Sapheros' contributions were removed because he did not want his work to have any association with someone as disgusting as saph.

 

[amperbee]

I don't think we should be forced to respect work by banned people

Regardless of whatever the banned person did (whether being petty or vanished from earth or something heinous, anything after the ban), you have to respect his work, as per the rules of the community you registered to stipulates. This is a standard in real life too; just because you don't like one guy doesn't mean you can tear up his shit and do whatever you want.

If the guy doesn't want his work to be used (or per forum rules, you can't), so be it: Just make your own!
Nothing stops you from making your very own project that replaces what the old mod did, but with bonus and/or different features.
We've got LibreOffice out of Microsoft Office, and we've got Hedgewars out of Worms, after all.

If staff were to enable you to do whatever the hell you want with their work after their ban, not only it could cause something akin to copyright problems (IT'S NOT THEIR WORK), but it would enable a slippery slope of just ignoring authorship whenever convenient.

 

[Banjo268]

If the guy doesn't want his work to be used (or per forum rules, you can't), so be it: Just make your own!
Nothing stops you from making your very own project that replaces what the old mod did, but with bonus and/or different features.

I've heard this before, and you're right, but every time no says anything! It feels so black and white here: either you can or you can't. You don't specify that you can make mod z instead of porting or editing mod x. If this is in the rules, PLEASE LINK IT. I will admit I'm wrong and retract this entirely, but as for now, there feels to be such a miscommunication on whether or not mod z is acceptable here (at least to me).

 

[FutureSon]

In my opinion.The SRB2 workshop feels like a starting place for people that are new in lua coding and spriting, There you can find mods that are early in development but they try their best to become better, after the SRB2 workshop they change to the MB when they have the confidence of making a decent mod that gets a good following, With a good balance of positive and negative comments they can try to be better than they once we're.
I dont really have any thoughts about the GB community bc i hardley even check the SRB2 part.
Anyways in conclusion, all communities should be united to creat the best formula of being a beginner to becoming one of the best of modder.

 

[Soniku11]

In my opinion.The SRB2 workshop feels like a starting place for people that are new in lua coding and spriting, There you can find mods that are early in development but they try their best to become better, after the SRB2 workshop they change to the MB when they have the confidence of making a decent mod that gets a good following, With a good balance of positive and negative comments they can try to be better than they once we're.
I dont really have any thoughts about the GB community bc i hardley even check the SRB2 part.
Anyways in conclusion, all communities should be united to creat the best formula of being a beginner to becoming one of the best of modder.

Honestly, that's pretty much my situation right now. Although i originally started here, doing pretty mediocre stuff, then later being banned for 2 years, not coming back until a few weeks ago, i still have a lot of work to do, because most of my stuff it's pretty mediocre, while still having that effort put onto it.

What i mean, i'm on that same situation, where i have low-mediocre quality mods of myself, that arent yet ready for the MB, and need a serious rework

 

[FutureSon]

Honestly, that's pretty much my situation right now. Although i originally started here, doing pretty mediocre stuff, then later being banned for 2 years, not coming back until a few weeks ago, i still have a lot of work to do, because most of my stuff it's pretty mediocre, while still having that effort put onto it.

What i mean, i'm on that same situation, where i have low-mediocre quality mods of myself, that arent yet ready for the MB, and need a serious rework

Its ok, I hope you become one of the best modders

 

[amperbee]

You don't specify that you can make mod z instead of porting or editing mod x. If this is in the rules, PLEASE LINK IT

Don't think so deep into it. It's not a rule, it's common sense.

The problem is using preexisting work you haven't been given permission to use.
You can make your own work. From scratch, using what you know.

It's not like mod ideas are patented, brother.

 

[Soniku11]

Don't think so deep into it. It's not a rule, it's common sense.

The problem is using preexisting work you haven't been given permission to use.
You can make your own work. From scratch, using what you know.

It's not like mod ideas are patented, brother.

And it never should be.

There's been only rare cases, and very few through out all this whole time of companies who do just exactly that, and as far as i'm aware, people always thought negatively about ideas getting patented, like, Shadow Of Mordor, for example, and the concept of the Nemesis System

 

[Banjo268]

It's not like mod ideas are patented, brother.

Didn't that one guy create a sprite of Eggman similar to Ring Racers, so he got in trouble for it? Correct me if I'm wrong there.
Sometimes, it definitely feels like things here are patented when it comes to mod ideas.

 

[amperbee]

Didn't that one guy create a sprite of Eggman similar to Ring Racers, so he got in trouble for it?

i haven't touched kart in at least two years so i've got no clue about it.
i know there's a chunk of impatient people ripping off sprites and mechanics by looking at indev recordings and screenshots, copying every (or most) thing(s) and then distributing it about, potentially misrepresenting what the RR developers actually have in mind.

that's as far as my knowledge goes though. i can't offer any insight on that front

 

[DylanDude]

Didn't that one guy create a sprite of Eggman similar to Ring Racers, so he got in trouble for it? Correct me if I'm wrong there.
Sometimes, it definitely feels like things here are patented when it comes to mod ideas.

You're probably referring to Dirk.

The logs make it explicitly clear what happened. He wasn't just making sprites "similar" to Ring Racers sprites- he was actively tracing and copying Ring Racers sprites from screenshots. He also pestered Kart Krew staff for more screenshots of Ring Racers sprites to accomplish this. He was warned not to do this but continued anyway.

I was in a private friend group server with Dirk where most of this was happening and I can tell you it's an open and shut case. Dirk apologized and accepted the ban once caught. Some disingenuous people within the community have spread the rumor that the moderators banned Dirk for merely making sprites that were "too similar." That's not remotely true and anyone trying to tell you it is can be safely disregarded.

 

[Banjo268]

You're probably referring to Dirk.

The logs make it explicitly clear what happened. He wasn't just making sprites "similar" to Ring Racers sprites- he was actively tracing and copying Ring Racers sprites from screenshots. He also pestered Kart Krew staff for more screenshots of Ring Racers sprites to accomplish this. He was warned not to do this but continued anyway.

I was in a private friend group server with Dirk where most of this was happening and I can tell you it's an open and shut case. Dirk apologized and accepted the ban once caught. Some disingenuous people within the community have spread the rumor that the moderators banned Dirk for merely making sprites that were "too similar." That's not remotely true and anyone trying to tell you it is can be safely disregarded.

Yes, but should that result as a ban? Yes, he shouldn't had copy those sprites, but that should be more on a suspension side of things, no? We should only treat bans if they're either so annoying to devs or other people to that point (if he was please say so), or they never asked to port or edit a mod, or being a pedo. But these sprites were eventually going to be released in Ring Racers, right? I think we need to treat bans as a more extreme measure of punishment, not really for smaller scenarios like these. He should be suspended for a smaller period of time, not permanently shunned out of the community and exiled forever. But that's just my opinion, not gonna be regarded much here, is it?