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[Open Assets] Swapped Amy Aerials / Spring Frames allow hammer 1.0

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I think characters abilities being consistent with each-other makes an equal amount of, if not more sense.
There's no need for every character to have extra abilities the game isn't designed for, there's LUA for Sonic Lost World Bounce, which I like.
Again I think it'd make sense for Shield Abilities to *always* be Spin, and Jump Abilities to *always* be Jump. It's just as consistent.

My 3 button proposition maintains this, at least in regards to shields remaining activated by spin. As for abilities that require you to jump first, Super Sonic already exists as an example of mapping a midair ability to a button that isn't jump with his hover.

The point I am trying to make here is that when you design a character that is capable of more actions, it is often a necessity to increase the number of buttons used to avoid unnecessary conflictions and keep the playstyle intuitive. The use of a third button also presents the opportunity of additional slots to fill with actions. These slots wouldn't need to be filled by every character, though they would be there for when doing so is convenient and allows for a meaningful addition to the character's moveset.

For example, in regards to Amy, the third button being relegated to hammer swings frees up the spin button while grounded and also the midair action. Perhaps while grounded the spin button allows the player to make Amy trip and slide a short distance along the ground, busting badniks in her path and can gain speed down slopes but is unable to go under spin only paths. While in the jumping state, she could have a reduced jump height more on par with Sonic's jump, but could gain a double jump that can be used in addition to rather than instead of her hammer.

This would give Amy a jumping action that is actually based around mobility like all of the other characters, would preserve the shield button remaining consistent among all characters, would give her an additional option to attack enemies that doubles as a ground based mobility option, and keeps use of the hammer to one consistent button.

In effect, this would allow Amy to maintain a self-consistent design mentality that also does not contradict the other characters. The third button could then be used to add a few additional abilities to the other characters here and there, not necessarily everyone and not necessarily filling all possible actions, but allowing for a few additional options here and there that enhance each character that receives them in some small but noticeable way.
 
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I have nothing particularly insightful to say about this debate, but after playing with this mod I think it's superior and more intuitive than the default controls.

The proposal to add an additional button to the default controls feels like a solution in search for a problem. This mod works fine to fixing Amy's control oddities. Even vanilla SRB2 is perfectly fine—the minor inconsistency is barely an issue. Adding abilities to all characters is an enormous addition to game design balance... and it seems it was only suggested to justify adding another button. Which doesn't need to happen in the first place.
 
I have nothing particularly insightful to say about this debate, but after playing with this mod I think it's superior and more intuitive than the default controls.

The proposal to add an additional button to the default controls feels like a solution in search for a problem. This mod works fine to fixing Amy's control oddities. Even vanilla SRB2 is perfectly fine—the minor inconsistency is barely an issue. Adding abilities to all characters is an enormous addition to game design balance... and it seems it was only suggested to justify adding another button. Which doesn't need to happen in the first place.

The proposition is not in search for a problem, but rather in response to an existing debate. The existing debate in question being based entirely on the two button system employed in the vanilla version of the game currently.

This debate was as follows: Amy's hammer while midair is mapped to both jump and spin. This leads to a confusing control scheme in which some players get used to using spin to use the hammer both in the air and on the ground, but then use shield abilities accidentally when attempting to use the hammer.

As such, there are two primary schools of thought to fix this problem. You could map the hammer only to jump while in the air, forcefully splitting the hammer between two buttons for the sake of avoiding the confusion, or you could map shield abilities to jump while in midair, preserving spin as the "hammer" button, but causing shield abilities to become inconsistent between playing as Amy and playing as anyone else.

Therefore, I proposed the third button as a "best of both worlds" type solution to the debate. This allows shields to be binded to the same button for Amy as they are for all other characters while also allowing the hammer to be used by one consistent button. This also, as I stated previously, opens up the potential to add even more actions to Amy and the other characters when convenient. Yes, this could have an impact on balance, but not all slots would need to be filled, nor would all characters need to gain anything new. In some cases, new frames of animation wouldn't even need to be made. For example, giving Sonic the instashield could just use the existing sprites for it from S3K overlayed around his existing jump frames. It would serve the purpose of briefly expanding his attack reach while also giving him the ability to protect himself from projectiles in midair with the right timing.

The additions made as a result of the third button option wouldn't need to be grand and extensive. The impact to balance would only be as big as the developers wanted it to be.
 
Amy's twinspin is her mid-air ability, while Sonic's midair ability is his thok. For Amy gaining momentum from slopes, i'd just have it so if she hammer's a side-ways spring she'll go into spin mode since the speed cap stops her from actually gaining shit. But I do like how you basically talked about the Head-Slide-Attack from Sonic Advance. (I much prefer Amy's advance design.)
Super Sonic can thok, if you didn't know that. Hover is a secondary mid-air ability. There's no need to make a specific *Hammer Button*.
It is sad that 2 characters in this game can't utilize slopes, and even with the hammer spring that'd help her utilize like maybe 6 slopes in the entire game.
 
Amy's twinspin is her mid-air ability, while Sonic's midair ability is his thok. For Amy gaining momentum from slopes, i'd just have it so if she hammer's a side-ways spring she'll go into spin mode since the speed cap stops her from actually gaining shit. But I do like how you basically talked about the Head-Slide-Attack from Sonic Advance. (I much prefer Amy's advance design.)
Super Sonic can thok, if you didn't know that. Hover is a secondary mid-air ability. There's no need to make a specific *Hammer Button*.
It is sad that 2 characters in this game can't utilize slopes, and even with the hammer spring that'd help her utilize like maybe 6 slopes in the entire game.

I am well aware of Super Sonic's moveset, I have made use of it many times over the years.

It seems quite apparent to me that there is nothing that will get us to agree regarding the matter of 2 buttons or 3. As such, as I have already made the points I wanted to make, sometimes multiple times over, I will make this my final thoughts on the matter: I can understand the appeal towards a system in which everything is made to work in as few buttons as possible, especially when that system has been in use for long enough to be considered tradition. However, open-mindedness towards concepts which do not fit within tradition can on occasion work to the benefit of a game. SRB2 is already treading into new territory in it's attempt to work new characters into it's playable roster with their own original new movesets that haven't been in anything that came before. What better time to take into consideration ideas which are new?

Ambition is an emotion that comes in many flavors. For the sake of this discussion not going in circles any longer, perhaps it is best that we agree to disagree.
 
You can spam Elemental Shield's stomp.
 

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Jump for shield ability and Spin for hammer? Twinspin is Amy's jump-ability like the thok. I know there's already been arguements for and against this, but I think it'd make more sense for shield ability to be spin and jump ability to be jump, for consistency. You could make it a toggle. I see Amy's twinspin as her jump ability, there's no need to make the button mapping more complicated than it needs to be.
That's all from me.
 
I think this is pretty much the ideal control scheme for Amy bar moving shield abilities to their own dedicated button entirely. Not only are hammering in the air and on ground similar actions, but landing during a twinspin chains into the end of the ground hammer. It makes sense for them to be on the same button.

An important thing to mention is that Amy getting a shield in vanilla actually nerfs her twinspin. Since letting go of the jump key also cuts off your jump height, the only way to use the twinspin while also jumping upwards is with the spin key. Considering how annoying jet jaws and the like are to Amy, that's some significant lost functionality.

Spin characters also lose a small bit of functionality with a shield - the ability to hold spin while landing to seamlessly transition to rolling - but that's mostly for flow rather than utility.
 
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