Steelie
Haunted by a couple big mistakes
If you studied history, you'd find crusades themselves weren't quite as noble and selfless as was claimed.
What in the world is SRB2 Workshop?
- Thread starter Void Animates
- Start date
So how does this relate to the argument? I’m just going to give my opinion on the workshop: it’s simply a Message Board copy (Quite literally copies parts of the MB rules outright with no changes) except with poor mods, that are of Final Demo quality, or stolen good ones. It will die off, similar to the Skybase. Even if it doesn’t it will stay as a hub for what, demo era caliber mods and controversy?If you studied history, you'd find crusades themselves weren't quite as noble and selfless as was claimed.
Yeah, communities live or die by their principles, that's how I see it, too. It's a free market of ideas, and if someone has an idea that they think they can do better on, the results will speak for themselves. That's what made the DDoS so obnoxious, because I literally said "go for it, do your own thing, you don't need my permission" and within weeks we were having our site forcefully taken down. Damn! I feel censored!
Steelie
Haunted by a couple big mistakes
Not everything needs to be taken at face value. It was merely a tongue-in-cheek response to the person above who used the word "crusade". Granted it didn't bring anything to the table so I apologize for that, but for that reason it could've been safely ignored. I won't respond to anything else until I have anything to add, as to not derail the thread further.
Kekrock
just play fallout new vegas it's really good
MB isn't really better either, the truth is there on place yet everyone chooses to ignore it and pretend that Workshop did all bad
if you would just ignore the alternative MB, we wouldn't be arguing like bunch of morons, also, nice cherrypicking and baiting, Dylan, it doesn't make you look better at all
RitzyJuice885
make believes reborn
those sure are words. how about instead of accusing the mb staff of being as bad as the workshop's staff you actually point out what you think they've done wrong
What do you want them to do? Just stay awkwardly silent and give the silent treatment when people bring it up and ask about it? You can't shush people for asking completely normal questions.
SonicHacker141
battle network-er
Do not spam all caps. If all your post has to say is "can you all please stop talking about this?" then you should close the page and find something else to do instead. Let people have their discussions.
fr, some of us like to go there for a visit to get more mods
also CAN PEOPLE JUST DEAL WITH THE FACT THERE'S AN ALTERNATE MB? WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO REMOVE THE WEBSITE OR SMTH
JUST DEAL WITH THE FACT THERE'S AN ALTERNATE MB WITH PORTLEGS AND MOVE ON.
RitzyJuice885
make believes reborn
nobody's complaining about the fact the ws exists, they're free to do whatever the hell they want outside of this community but that doesn't stop the owners of the ws from being bad people
DylanDude
Overeager Raposa
This is a two-way street. If you want us to ignore you, that means you have to leave us alone too. This means respecting our wishes by not publishing edits of our addons without permission. Wanting to be respected as an alternative forum while not respecting our own boundaries is hypocrisy.
Also, the WS DDOS’d us. Not sure how we’re supposed to just ignore that.
See above. We’ve long hated unauthorized edits, so publishing unauthorized edits of our mods and then saying WE’RE starting drama when we get upset about it is missing the point. Our boundaries were clear, but they chose to break them. Respect our boundaries and we’ll respect yours.
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Garrean
Member
I don't know, something about this rubs me the wrong way. Yeah, I agree that if the reasoning is something inane like the example you gave, it's not justified, but I feel an author has the right to say "Sorry, I just don't want to have my work ported." without needing to justify it any further. It seems like a simple and reasonable request to me.
The reasoning is actually very similar. Perhaps the fact you reacted to the example I gave as inane belies something you should explore more? I used that specific example because telling someone "you can't use my character in these levels, this is important to me so plz comply" is actually extremely close to saying "you can't use my character in this version of the game, this is important to me so plz comply."
Garrean
Member
Except you were the one who called it "insane" in the first place? I was just following off of the line of reasoning you provided.
Sorry, I wasn't the most clear. I called it insane, but I don't think you should actually think the example is insane, by your logic. You said you don't think someone should need to justify why they don't want their mod ported.
If you don't think it's insane for people to tell someone which version of SRB2 they can play the mod in, why do you think it's insane for people to tell someone which levelpacks they can play it in?
I know the answer most would give is because "it requires editing the mod to make it work in another version" but I actually want to know if you have anything more than that. We don't allow editing another person's art because we value the author's vision for the mod they made. In this case, it's literally an issue of copyright, as well.
But in terms of a port, do you think it's fair for the author's vision to extend as far as "you are only allowed to use my mod on this particular version of the game?" And how is that any different than if the author's vision were to be "you are only allowed to use it in this particular level pack"?
Garrean
Member
I think that an astute difference between the two cases of "You must play this mod in this version of SRB2" and "You can't play this mod with this level pack" is that the former case is about wanting to keep your mod true to the original version of SRB2 that it was designed around, with all the game design aspects and idiosyncrasies unique to that version. (Such as a level pack that was designed specifically around Final Demo's physics) The latter case is about wanting to restrict your mod, even if it would actually work just fine in tandem with this other mod. (Like a character that was designed with general abilities that work with all kinds of level design)
And I'll take this moment to point out that you kinda morphed the latter case from "You can't play this mod with this level pack" into "You have to play this mod with only this level pack" over the course of this conversation, which is sort of similar, but not enough for the purposes of what I'm talking about. Because if someone is saying "You have to play this mod with only this level pack", then it's still about wanting to keep your mod true to what it was designed around. (Like a Lua script that was designed to supplement a specific level pack with unique gameplay)
I won't touch on whether any of these reasonings justify actually enforcing them, since that's kinda out of the scope of what I wanted to say with this post. I just wanted to bring up the point that there are fundamental differences between the cases we were discussing.
No morphing happened, I've just been listing a bunch of slightly different but similar things. They're all the same, really. "You can't play it with this character" "you can't play it with this level" "you can only play it in this level" -- same difference.
"You want to keep your mod true to the original version of SRB2, by restricting your mod, even if it would actually work just fine in this other version."
Whether a mod "works" right (a very subjective thing) can vary drastically between levels within a version, not just without.
These two are the same thing, you just described them with different words.
"You want to keep your mod true to the original version of SRB2, by restricting your mod, even if it would actually work just fine in this other version."
Whether a mod "works" right (a very subjective thing) can vary drastically between levels within a version, not just without.
C.D. Dinosaur
Three rats in a trench coat
I think the perceived difference is in portlegging vs playing in a different version
if not changes had to be made to the mod for it to be playable in new versions, this stigma would not exist.
the issue people have with portlegs are not the concept, that people are making mods available to be played in modern versions of the game, the problem as I see it is that portlegs are seen as tampering with the original.
If I were to be asked to port a mod I made, I'm not sure I'd say yes because it's essentially a coinflip on whether the finished product will be a faithful, fun, and competent or just a mod that technically ports all aspects if the mod to 2.X while also being incredibly unpolished and not a product I'd be proud of
tl;dr I don't trust strangers
Tangentially related to this whole debate, it appears that extremely recently the reusability system has been tweaked to change the wording. Instead of "YES" or "NO" the options for the Modify category have been edited to "YES" and "ASK ME". I for one think this is a positive change and should (hopefully) clear up a lot of the confusion surrounding this whole reusability debate.
Yeah, this is the part that makes lots of sense to me. If there was a way to ensure that ports were faithful/good quality -- or that tech support problems wouldn't get shoved their way for ports they didn't make -- I think that people would have extremely few grounds to complain about ports on. Definitely not artistic intent grounds.
Someone asked for this change earlier in the Talk to the Staff subforum. Since it was sensible, I changed it immediately. It doesn't change the actual meaning of anything, but it does have more welcoming language. Maybe that's worth something, idk how much though LOL.