What in the world is SRB2 Workshop?

My context has been limited what I'm reading on my phone.

You know this. They really hate the mb and glorify the Workshop. And lately starting to hate on Dylan more.

This was a reply to cilc mobile sucks
 
As an artist (even if a small one) I can tell you I would be intensely pissy if anyone took any of my drawings and just drew over them without my permission and posted them somewhere saying "hey look I made this better". Take it with a grain of salt if you wish, but modding is still art and they both go hand in hand.
Oh modding is absolutely art, I don’t see it as different from drawings
That actually makes a lot of sense and I can see where one would view that, prob not the best feeling to make a hard level and have someone “fix it” by making it easy

I really need to write that thing to the staff tho it’s further proving my point lmao
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My context has been limited what I'm reading on my phone.

You know this. They really hate the mb and glorify the Workshop. And lately starting to hate on Dylan more.

This was a reply to cilc mobile sucks
I feel like although there are ppl that do that lumping everyone in is kinda inaccurate
I don’t see how someone thinking all mods should be reusable, for example, and even voicing that, automatically makes them hate the mb and like the workshop
 
Genuinely curious, aside from Top Down which I'm aware has its own drama attached to it, are there any mods/level packs/characters that are permanently stuck in pre-2.2 hell because of the reusability issues?
Most major examples I can think of either have in-progress ports/updates currently in the works by their original authors, or nobody has bothered to try asking the original creator if they could port it.
 
You know this. They really hate the mb and glorify the Workshop. And lately starting to hate on Dylan more.
They've hated me ever since I publicly defended the MB against the initial attacks by WS members. I also banned some of them from Direct Central due to their connections to a DDOS attack on the MS. They can stay mad.
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Yes, but even though the modder "put in x amount of hours", I feel like they should be required a reason to not want a port.
Many of the reasons are going to be the same between modders. This would be pointless, ultimately.
Also, this brings a major concern in my opinion: should we consider ports not by the creator a edit? I know that seems like a simple yes, but I feel this should be discussed further.
By the nature of SRB2, porting something requires making edits to it just so it will work. It is extremely common for unauthorized ports to be handled poorly, resulting in a worse experience. This is how they got the name "portlegs," BTW. It was drawing upon the poor reputation of bootlegs.
 
They've hated me ever since I publicly defended the MB against the initial attacks by WS members. I also banned some of them from Direct Central due to their connections to a DDOS attack on the MS. They can stay mad.
It is p annoying I’m in the server and trying to have a genuine conversation with you and others and everyone is being very childish and saying how your points are bad and shit without. Like I don’t know crazy idea. Joining the conversation respectfully???
I don’t get why everyone is so scared to respectfully state their piece
 
The first part actually helps clarify anything in the non-reusable section, so thanks for that.
But
If they just wanna keep their og work close to them, why does that stop any fan ports of the mod? I'm genuinely curious.
Because of either diminishing quality without the original author's input or it flying directly in the face of the author's intentions. I'll give you an example:

Some time ago an unofficial port of fawfulfan's mod The Tortured Planet has been making its way around the internet. I found and tried it myself (which I'm a bit ashamed of but nonetheless) and could imediatelly see the portlegger wasn't interested in making it play well in any way. The Fume Shaft Zone badniks weren't ported at all and were all replaced with Deep Sea's Crushtaceans. No alternative paths were added for Fang or Amy. And none of the stages were even made with the 2.2's various badnik redesigns in mind. Alien Armageddon, the last zone, was for lack of a better word, a clusterfuck. The new lancebots were incredibly egregious, especially in the blinking path rooms and 2D sections. It was just straight up not fun. All because someone ported a mod haphazardly and with no thought put in it.

There are many more examples of such lopsided ports, from characters to levelpacks. All done through impatience, because people want mods in the current version, instead of just playing them as intended in the previous version until the original author (or anyone with permission) brings the mods over with care and effort.
 
bit late, i was writing

[...]Like I want the reason why you *not saying you literally using it as an example* think your mod should not be usable by anyone in the community, and why you think that’s right [...]
I'll take some of my mods as an example :knuxsmug:

The core reasons for me marking some stuff as non reusable are as follows:
  • Modifications are usually unsupported by me.
  • I don't want modifications to be associated to what I can do.
  • I don't know how other people would use it, or for what.

Let's work on all of them:

Modifications are usually unsupported by me.
Take SRB2Ware as an example.

Because it is not reusable nor an open asset, you can't edit then distribute it without my explicit permission.
I'm not saying "hey, hands off" here, I'm trying to make clear that any possible changes to the mod are straight up not endorsed by me and therefore do not have my technical support; good luck, have fun, don't cry if it breaks.
This is made easier by virtue of the MB disallowing redistribution without permission. There are no edits, therefore people can't mistake it for being mine.

That said, at no point I'm preventing anyone from just giving it an official tweak if they so wanted. You just have to ask me, and I'm most likely going to give you a positive answer and let you release it. Hell, I may even give you some pointers on how the addon works internally so you don't confuse yourself by touching literally everything and breaking it further than it already is :razz:

Did you know somebody in the BR community shot me a message, asking me if they could make an edit to SRB2Ware to translate it to portuguese? That's quite literally basic courtesy. I regretfully didn't make translating it any easy, but they were able to do it.

I don't want modifications to be associated to what I can do.
Take Elimination as another example.

I made it, it works, it's fun.
A few months later, a few Kart peeps wanted to extend its functionality, as well as some bonus QoL.
After its release, I had just a few people come to me for help with it until I pointed out the other elimination mod is not particularly mine and to ask the proper author for help. You see, if you search "srb2kart elimination", the first result used to be MY thread.

I don't know what they changed (I lie, I can literally see what the changes are by comparing both files, but it's not my job to troubleshoot things that were not created nor are being supported by me...), so I don't want these changes associated to what I know I can do.



Ports fall under "modification" as you have to, you know, modify it to make it work on a newer version.

People tend to have this mentality of "it just works" that is very often incompatible with what the author wants.
Some people that look for a port of a particular mod are just looking for that: Port a mod to the next version, problems be damned.
But that just makes a port that might perform equally as bad or worse than the previous version.
There are new features, why not make use of them? Or things can be done better than they are, why not do just that?

That's where "courtesy" comes in. At least ask the dude for help, they might point you in the right direction. See the previous point.

Or maybe they won't let you, but usually because... they are already planning for a version with more goodies? Maybe it will perform better than it used to?
Why not wait? No need to be desperate until your next mod fix.

I don't know how other people would use it, or for what.
I've made a few other mods (not released here on the message board, you'll know when you find one) that are extremely fucking weird in functionality.
The default permission is "don't touch it" mostly because it works in such a shitty way that you can probably do better than me instead of touching it and getting a 220v electric shock.

You want to use it? Go nuts.
But if you ask for my blessing, you get free support (as far as my patience goes :razz:).
Maybe some pointers too, if you tell me what your use case is.



Note this is just me and how I currently feel about it with the mods I have up anywhere.
I might change my stance once I experience something else, but until then...
 
Because of either diminishing quality without the original author's input or it flying directly in the face of the author's intentions. I'll give you an example:

Some time ago an unofficial port of fawfulfan's mod The Tortured Planet has been making its way around the internet. I found and tried it myself (which I'm a bit ashamed of but nonetheless) and could imediatelly see the portlegger wasn't interested in making it play well in any way. The Fume Shaft Zone badniks weren't ported at all and were all replaced with Deep Sea's Crushtaceans. No alternative paths were added for Fang or Amy. And none of the stages were even made with the 2.2's various badnik redesigns in mind. Alien Armageddon, the last zone, was for lack of a better word, a clusterfuck. The new lancebots were incredibly egregious, especially in the blinking path rooms and 2D sections. It was just straight up not fun. All because someone ported a mod haphazardly and with no thought put in it.

There are many more examples of such lopsided ports, from characters to levelpacks. All done through impatience, because people want mods in the current version, instead of just playing them as intended in the previous version until the original author (or anyone with permission) brings the mods over with care and effort.
Ok ok ok ok cool epic good chance to say a thing

Would you agree that the ppl who play maps as modded characters they were not designed for, and proceed to criticize the maps are in a way, doing something similarly to playing a portleg and letting it shape their view?
 
It is p annoying I’m in the server and trying to have a genuine conversation with you and others and everyone is being very childish and saying how your points are bad and shit without. Like I don’t know crazy idea. Joining the conversation respectfully???
I don’t get why everyone is so scared to respectfully state their piece
That server appears to have a toxic culture. I mean, the name "trash bin" is already a pretty disrespectful name to call a series about other people's art, so it's only understandable it would attract a lot of people who don't mind that.

However, I really do not want this conversation to turn into a discussion about Trash Bin. It was just nice to have further confirmation that a lot of the Workshop defenders are acting toxic about this thread.
 
bit late, i was writing


I'll take some of my mods as an example :knuxsmug:

The core reasons for me marking some stuff as non reusable are as follows:
  • Modifications are usually unsupported by me.
  • I don't want modifications to be associated to what I can do.
  • I don't know how other people would use it, or for what.

Let's work on all of them:

Modifications are usually unsupported by me.
Take SRB2Ware as an example.

Because it is not reusable nor an open asset, you can't edit then distribute it without my explicit permission.
I'm not saying "hey, hands off" here, I'm trying to make clear that any possible changes to the mod are straight up not endorsed by me and therefore do not have my technical support; good luck, have fun, don't cry if it breaks.
This is made easier by virtue of the MB disallowing redistribution without permission. There are no edits, therefore people can't mistake it for being mine.

That said, at no point I'm preventing anyone from just giving it an official tweak if they so wanted. You just have to ask me, and I'm most likely going to give you a positive answer and let you release it. Hell, I may even give you some pointers on how the addon works internally so you don't confuse yourself by touching literally everything and breaking it further than it already is :razz:

Did you know somebody in the BR community shot me a message, asking me if they could make an edit to SRB2Ware to translate it to portuguese? That's quite literally basic courtesy. I regretfully didn't make translating it any easy, but they were able to do it.

I don't want modifications to be associated to what I can do.
Take Elimination as another example.

I made it, it works, it's fun.
A few months later, a few Kart peeps wanted to extend its functionality, as well as some bonus QoL.
After its release, I had just a few people come to me for help with it until I pointed out the other elimination mod is not particularly mine and to ask the proper author for help. You see, if you search "srb2kart elimination", the first result used to be MY thread.

I don't know what they changed (I lie, I can literally see what the changes are by comparing both files, but it's not my job to troubleshoot things that were not created nor are being supported by me...), so I don't want these changes associated to what I know I can do.



Ports fall under "modification" as you have to, you know, modify it to make it work on a newer version.

People tend to have this mentality of "it just works" that is very often incompatible with what the author wants.
Some people that look for a port of a particular mod are just looking for that: Port a mod to the next version, problems be damned.
But that just makes a port that might perform equally as bad or worse than the previous version.
There are new features, why not make use of them? Or things can be done better than they are, why not do just that?

That's where "courtesy" comes in. At least ask the dude for help, they might point you in the right direction. See the previous point.

Or maybe they won't let you, but usually because... they are already planning for a version with more goodies? Maybe it will perform better than it used to?
Why not wait? No need to be desperate until your next mod fix.

I don't know how other people would use it, or for what.
I've made a few other mods (not released here on the message board, you'll know when you find one) that are extremely fucking weird in functionality.
The default permission is "don't touch it" mostly because it works in such a shitty way that you can probably do better than me instead of touching it and getting a 220v electric shock.

You want to use it? Go nuts.
But if you ask for my blessing, you get free support (as far as my patience goes :razz:).
Maybe some pointers too, if you tell me what your use case is.



Note this is just me and how I currently feel about it with the mods I have up anywhere.
I might change my stance once I experience something else, but until then...
This clarifies so much and is super helpful thank you, seriously I really appreciate it

I’m now once again saying how I should write the thing to the staff and not doing it lmao
 
Yes, but even though the modder "put in x amount of hours", I feel like they should be required a reason to not want a port. Also, this brings a major concern in my opinion: should we consider ports not by the creator a edit? I know that seems like a simple yes, but I feel this should be discussed further.
Why does a mod author have to justify themselves to everyone who decides to bother them? Why do you feel entitled to do whatever you want with something just because it exists?
 
Ok ok ok ok cool epic good chance to say a thing

Would you agree that the ppl who play maps as modded characters they were not designed for, and proceed to criticize the maps are in a way, doing something similarly to playing a portleg and letting it shape their view?
I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. Maps that are submitted to the MB must be possible to be completed by any of the main 6 characters in the cast (Sonic, Tails, Knux and the unlockable Amy, Fang and Metal) AFAIK. Whether the author of any map decides to accommodate any modded characters is entirely their business. If people, for example, blast through a stage as SMS and then complain the map sucks, that does invalidate their opinion, I agree. But not sure what it has to do with portlegging.
 
Would you agree that the ppl who play maps as modded characters they were not designed for, and proceed to criticize the maps are in a way, doing something similarly to playing a portleg and letting it shape their view?
Even if that counted as an unfair review, an unfair review is different from actually stealing someone's work.
 
That server appears to have a toxic culture. I mean, the name "trash bin" is already a pretty disrespectful name to call a series about other people's art, so it's only understandable it would attract a lot of people who don't mind that.

However, I really do not want this conversation to turn into a discussion about Trash Bin. It was just nice to have further confirmation that a lot of the Workshop defenders are acting toxic about this thread.
Last I’ll say on it, it does seem less toxic and more “anything goes” in many ways , (unless you talk abt being trans then ur too political and need to cut it out or whatever lmao) one reason I’m in it personally is due to this, I want to see the people who HATE my levels you know? That’s very valuable feedback, as well I do like talking abt this stuff with ppl respectfully which, many of them won’t throw out insults if you approach them nicely
Directly talking with ppl u disagree with can be good (obv there’s exceptions, I don’t feel like I need to state those lmaooo)
 
Ok ok ok ok cool epic good chance to say a thing

Would you agree that the ppl who play maps as modded characters they were not designed for, and proceed to criticize the maps are in a way, doing something similarly to playing a portleg and letting it shape their view?
I think that question would be better suited for this thread here.
 
I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. Maps that are submitted to the MB must be possible to be completed by any of the main 6 characters in the cast (Sonic, Tails, Knux and the unlockable Amy, Fang and Metal) AFAIK. Whether the author of any map decides to accommodate any modded characters is entirely their business. If people, for example, blast through a stage as SMS and then complain the map sucks, that does invalidate their opinion, I agree. But not sure what it has to do with portlegging.
i feel like it’s kinda similarly disrespecting the artist, but idk I haven’t been able to get a lot of ppl to agree with that 1 lol
 
I'm careful with how closely I tread to "You HAVE to play my works in the correct way!" because I greatly disagree with that mindset. That's part of why I think editing my work in private is entirely fine.
 
playing a map with a modded character, failing and claiming the map sucks is rude, but it's not comparable to grabbing a mod, modifying it with questionable choices and trying to release it
I should clarify, I’m more comparing it to playing a portleg, not making one
 

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