Suggestions

[GingerSRB2]

i think some of the flashing should be toned down a bit.
at afar, it's.. Alright but when you get up Close it gets really annoying. this is most prominent in the black eggman boss where you just HAVE to hit the Robo and witness him change to white and back Every Frame.

Spoiler: Black Eggman Example (flashing warning obviously)

View attachment 99263

to Solve This, i think opacity, along with the rate of the flickering should be lowered to the point where it's comfortable to view but Also high enough to the Point where the Player Knows what it Means
Thoughts ?

So basicly the feature S3AIR does where you hit the Boss/miniboss,you can change the flickering?

 

[time gear]

to Solve This, i think opacity, along with the rate of the flickering should be lowered to the point where it's comfortable to view but Also high enough to the Point where the Player Knows what it Means
Thoughts ?

It's probably in as a way to replicate what the classic games used to be like. That being said, I feel like it's rather unnecessary and could probably stand to be replaced with a different effect entirely. I'd say a slower flicker in and out of invisibility could be used to signify invincibility frames. In cases where there are no invincibility frames, just let the sound que of the boss taking a hit paired with some "flinch" sprites do the job of signifying to the player that their attack landed.

While it's not something that most Sonic games do, I feel like a health bar for bosses would also be a great addition. It would be another indicator for if a hit landed or not while also helping players with keeping track of how deep into the boss fight they are at any given moment.

 

[Useott]

Basic concept of how removing add-ons could work:

1. When loading add-ons, the game remembers the order in which you loaded them
2. When removing an add-on, the game restarts, but keeps the window open (and frozen)
3. The game checks the order you loaded them, but skips the add-on you removed, and overwrites the contents to not have the add-on (in case the player removes more)
4. After doing the stuff with the list, all add-ons are loaded again, without the one the player removed
5. Game goes to the folder the player was in, and the cursor goes to the file that was removed.
6. Game window unfreezes, and a message is printed to the console telling the player the file was removed.

Add-ons also can't be removed in the in-game add-ons menu, only the one in the title screen. A new console command could be added, removefile that removes a single add-on, and it obviously won't be usable in-game, only in the title screen. Another console command, removeallfiles, would restart the game, keep the window in a frozen state and return to the title screen without loading the add-ons, while a message is printed to the console telling the player all the add-ons were removed.

Another thing, servers won't be able to remove add-ons, they must be restarted (unless a way to remove it from the server and client is found)
This suggestion would be great for players who load lots of add-ons, or leave a netgame and want to join another without restarting.

I wish i could explain this without a message so long, but at least it's detailed :)

 

[time gear]

Basic concept of how removing add-ons could work:

1. When loading add-ons, the game remembers the order in which you loaded them
2. When removing an add-on, the game restarts, but keeps the window open (and frozen)
3. The game checks the order you loaded them, but skips the add-on you removed, and overwrites the contents to not have the add-on (in case the player removes more)
4. After doing the stuff with the list, all add-ons are loaded again, without the one the player removed
5. Game goes to the folder the player was in, and the cursor goes to the file that was removed.
6. Game window unfreezes, and a message is printed to the console telling the player the file was removed.

Add-ons also can't be removed in the in-game add-ons menu, only the one in the title screen. A new console command could be added, removefile that removes a single add-on, and it obviously won't be usable in-game, only in the title screen. Another console command, removeallfiles, would restart the game, keep the window in a frozen state and return to the title screen without loading the add-ons, while a message is printed to the console telling the player all the add-ons were removed.

Another thing, servers won't be able to remove add-ons, they must be restarted (unless a way to remove it from the server and client is found)
This suggestion would be great for players who load lots of add-ons, or leave a netgame and want to join another without restarting.

I wish i could explain this without a message so long, but at least it's detailed :)

This seems like a rather convoluted way of doing the same thing you could do in under a minute yourself by loading addons via a launcher, closing the game, removing one from the list, and re-opening the game.

 

[Useott]

This seems like a rather convoluted way of doing the same thing you could do in under a minute yourself by loading addons via a launcher, closing the game, removing one from the list, and re-opening the game.

I don't use a launcher

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2023

oh yeah i also forgot mobile players, i don't know any launcher made for android, so the idea could be great for them

 

[SuPeRDuDe5898]

nerf the 7th multiplayer special stage, the moving platforms are almost impossible with every character other than tails

 

[lumy668]

Tails Nine from sonic prime as a character would be nice

 

[GingerSRB2]

Tails Nine from sonic prime as a character would be nice

That litreally has no sense. STJr has already stated that there would only be 6 playable characters,as making a 7th one would cause a lot of level changes just to fit the 7th character.

 

[DahCulDood]

I would really like an option to deactivate all active mods without having to close the game entirely. After doing so, the game would restart with no mods. There would be a lot less hassle.

 

[GingerSRB2]

I would really like an option to deactivate all active mods without having to close the game entirely. After doing so, the game would restart with no mods. There would be a lot less hassle.

Im pretty sure this was asked here already. Its ok though,since you didnt know it was asked multiple times throughout 361 pages of this thread.

 

[tabu]

The draw distance max value should be increased a few hundred since it does actually make a performance difference in some bigger UDMF maps but also causes distracting pop-in at the max setting in the same maps.

 

[dany777]

Would it be possible to implement the newer VGM Play for SRB2?

VGMPlay / in_vgm - VGMRips

The forum about vgm files

vgmrips.net

From what i can remember, SRB2 supports .VGM and .VGZ files, however, it looks like only Sega Genesis songs are the only ones that plays.
I've tried testing a music that uses other sound chips other than the Genesis one and doesn't play, i was thinking if this could be implemented.

EDIT: Okay, so i've saw that there's the libgme.dll file and that's where it supports the VGM/VGZ files as well the SNES SPC ones, but i mean, implementing VGM Play because not only it does support the Sega Genesis songs but it adds way more support for other systems that uses more sound chips.

 

[sharpie]

I know the suggestion about alternate characters has posed issues, but I figured I'd put my two cents on the Thok Debate. Sonic could have his new movement abilities, but perhaps Mighty could be added as an unlockable character with the thok. I'm primarily suggesting Mighty because his purpose has primarily been to be another Sonic, since two of his three appearances (SegaSonic and Chaotix) have him play identically to Sonic.

Not much, I just feel like the thok is a really fun ability and part of the game's identity, and I think this would fit with the existing unlockable characters being alternate and at times more difficult experiences.

 

[Banjo268]

Not much, I just feel like the thok is a really fun ability and part of the game's identity, and I think this would fit with the existing unlockable characters being alternate and at times more difficult experiences.

I'm also gonna put my 2 cents on the Thok Debate. Why are people so insistent (especially 2.2 players) to remove the Thok? As Sharpie said, the Thok is one of SRB2's defining traits to Sonic, outside the fact the game was made off of Doom. I'm a 2.2 player myself, but it's not that bad. People who are newer typically complain about it, and it makes me sick at times. It's not a brainless ability, it works so well with the level design of SRB2. I would be shocked if STJR made 2.2 without the Thok in mind. If you spam the Thok, that's on you. Stop complaining to others that you don't understand how the Thok works. You quite literally are complaining to change something because you can't handle it. As for veterans of SRB2, WHY!? Why would you want to erase such an important part of this fangame's legacy? I wanna hear from some vets about their reasoning, because they baffle me more than a newcomer does.

 

[Jammin']

I'm also gonna put my 2 cents on the Thok Debate. Why are people so insistent (especially 2.2 players) to remove the Thok? As Sharpie said, the Thok is one of SRB2's defining traits to Sonic, outside the fact the game was made off of Doom. I'm a 2.2 player myself, but it's not that bad. People who are newer typically complain about it, and it makes me sick at times. It's not a brainless ability, it works so well with the level design of SRB2. I would be shocked if STJR made 2.2 without the Thok in mind. If you spam the Thok, that's on you. Stop complaining to others that you don't understand how the Thok works. You quite literally are complaining to change something because you can't handle it. As for veterans of SRB2, WHY!? Why would you want to erase such an important part of this fangame's legacy? I wanna hear from some vets about their reasoning, because they baffle me more than a newcomer does.

I'm personally not that fine with the thok getting replaced.
I don't think it's a good idea to make the game easier for players who just felt like playing the main character of the game despite the game stating how Sonic is quite difficult to play as in his damn description.
It's the player's fault for not taking "...but he finds getting through hazards the most difficult." and "The Speed Thok can be quite hard to control..." seriously.
Not to mention the fact the new ability will take away the simplicity of the other vanilla characters. While I don't know for sure if it uses a button other than the jump key, it still looks too advanced in either scenario to work well next to the other characters.
I think a good idea for fixing Sonic's verticality issue is to just encourage players to use speed and slopes to their advantage.

 

[time gear]

People who are newer typically complain about it, and it makes me sick at times.

This is the specific reason why STJr want to replace it. While not every new player is going to have issues with it, the majority of new players are having issues with it, and this is seen as a problem since they want Sonic to be the most approachable starter character since it's his name on the title screen. Many new players are going to want to pick him first, and they don't want them to feel punished for doing so.

It's not a brainless ability, it works so well with the level design of SRB2.

While I agree with the first half of your sentence, the reason why I agree with it is also the reason why I don't entirely agree with the second half of your sentence. Thok is a move that works better for people who can use it more skillfully. Despite its simplicity, there's a lot of nuance to the ability that skilled players can use to their advantage, and it's great when applied this way. Unfortunately, the experience most new players are having with it is attempting to use it as a platform aid and cannoning themselves into bottomless pits instead, or bouncing off shield enemies... Into bottomless pits instead. Interactions similar to this become all too common in many new players first playthroughs, and the lesson they learn from it is not to use the thok because it gets them into trouble more than it helps them.

If you spam the Thok, that's on you. Stop complaining to others that you don't understand how the Thok works. You quite literally are complaining to change something because you can't handle it.

You outline the problem here and don't seem to realize it. I already summed this up in my previous paragraph. In short though, the issue is that while the thok has a really high skill ceiling, it also unfortunately has a skill floor that is too high for many new players.

As for veterans of SRB2, WHY!? Why would you want to erase such an important part of this fangame's legacy? I wanna hear from some vets about their reasoning, because they baffle me more than a newcomer does.

As a veteran myself, I can't speak for others as personally I don't want to see the thok gone either. However, while I do have an attachment to it being Sonic's ability, the bigger priority to me is that the thok remains a part of the vanilla experience in some form. I generally agree with STJr's sentiment that Sonic should be the baseline that the game is designed around and be approachable to newcomers. If Sonic's ability getting replaced makes the game overall better, then I don't take strong issue with that. It's an overall positive. I just don't want thok gone entirely. Give it to another character like Metal Sonic or make it into a shield ability so that anyone can use it.

I don't think it's a good idea to make the game easier for players who just felt like playing the main character of the game despite the game stating how Sonic is quite difficult to play as in his damn description.

That's a problem with the description, not with the players, which is probably why that description tidbit was removed. Sonic shouldn't be difficult, he should be balanced. He should be the baseline, default experience the level design is built around. Ideally this would mean they'd design the levels to play better and more safely with thok, but a swap to a different ability isn't such a terrible way of going about it either. The goal is to not gatekeep playing as the main character behind a skill floor that is too high for most new players.

It's the player's fault for not taking "...but he finds getting through hazards the most difficult." and "The Speed Thok can be quite hard to control..." seriously.

Even if these lines were still in the game, once again all this does is gatekeep playing as the title character behind a skill floor. This is the kind of warning that should exist for characters that aren't meant to be the first thing the player experiences. First impressions matter a lot, and having your title character warning you not to use them is already getting off on the wrong foot.

Not to mention the fact the new ability will take away the simplicity of the other vanilla characters. While I don't know for sure if it uses a button other than the jump key, it still looks too advanced in either scenario to work well next to the other characters.

The "Breakfast Sandwich" as many have taken to calling it was scrapped some time ago. While I'm not aware of STJr's reasoning behind scrapping it, I can only assume that they agreed with the sentiment that it was unintuitive and overly complicated and in general conflicted with their goal of making Sonic more approachable to newcomers.

I think a good idea for fixing Sonic's verticality issue is to just encourage players to use speed and slopes to their advantage.

I don't think Sonic has a verticality issue, I'd incline more towards saying a large portion of the level design itself has a verticality issue that advantages characters who can gain height more easily. Lots of "climbing" type areas in which the only generally safe option for going fast is upward vertical movement. I do however agree with your main point here, the level design should absolutely be designed to encourage players to gain speed on slopes and use that speed to perform launches.

To be clear though, I don't think uphill level design is bad, I just think that SRB2 overuses it. There absolutely should be sections of the levels designed to slow Sonic down, though I'd prefer the number of these pathways that are mandatory be kept to a minimum. The exhilaration of Sonic gameplay comes from getting into a "flow" state, and suddenly having to slow down and do more careful platforming gets in the way. Yes, the classic games had a tendency of tossing such sections into the levels too, and I'm not a huge fan of it there either. I'm especially not a fan of it getting overused in SRB2 because given the 3D space level designers have to work with, there's no reason to railroad the player into pathways that are going to kill their flow state so frequently.

 

[Jammin']

Even if these lines were still in the game,

fym they're literally in 2.2.13

I don't think Sonic has a verticality issue, I'd incline more towards saying a large portion of the level design itself has a verticality issue that advantages characters who can gain height more easily. Lots of "climbing" type areas in which the only generally safe option for going fast is upward vertical movement. I do however agree with your main point here, the level design should absolutely be designed to encourage players to gain speed on slopes and use that speed to perform launches.

To be clear though, I don't think uphill level design is bad, I just think that SRB2 overuses it. There absolutely should be sections of the levels designed to slow Sonic down, though I'd prefer the number of these pathways that are mandatory be kept to a minimum. The exhilaration of Sonic gameplay comes from getting into a "flow" state, and suddenly having to slow down and do more careful platforming gets in the way. Yes, the classic games had a tendency of tossing such sections into the levels too, and I'm not a huge fan of it there either. I'm especially not a fan of it getting overused in SRB2 because given the 3D space level designers have to work with, there's no reason to railroad the player into pathways that are going to kill their flow state so frequently.

Then the level design needs to be changed.
One thing I have found is that some levels don't feel that Sonic-y. Whether that be because of the lack of a reference for 3D classic level design or not, something has felt off to me. That which I can't explain.

I'm also not totally opposed to a new ability for Sonic, I just feel like this weird ass all-purpose-kitchen-sink thing isn't the greatest way to go about it.

 

[Banjo268]

Despite its simplicity, there's a lot of nuance to the ability that skilled players can use to their advantage, and it's great when applied this way. Unfortunately, the experience most new players are having with it is attempting to use it as a platform aid and cannoning themselves into bottomless pits instead, or bouncing off shield enemies... Into bottomless pits instead. Interactions similar to this become all too common in many new players first playthroughs, and the lesson they learn from it is not to use the thok because it gets them into trouble more than it helps them.

I also struggled with the Thok when I started playing SRB2 last year. Of course it's gonna be difficult! It's the Thok! You're gonna Thok yourselves into bottomless pits, lasers, and enemies. I did too. I bet you did as well. You have to get into the groove of SRB2, to put time into the game. My favorite things about gaming is learning how to use something properly and even use it to your advantage. The new player should take the time to at least learn to use the Thok more properly. Also, I should note, SRB2 starts you off with SONIC AND TAILS. And as Jammin' posted, the text is still in-game, it's the player's fault for not taking caution to this. If the Thok becomes this much of a issue, just add a tutorial into SRB2 for the Thok. Or someone make a mod map explaining the Thok. It should be honestly quite useful for new players, explaining the Thok and how it interacts with badniks and slopes. Actually...:

NEW SUGGESTION
Add a advanced tutorial to SRB2. This would definitely benefit all players, explaining badnik bouncing, character's movesets, and, of course, the Thok. It's honestly a genius idea that surprisingly hasn't been considered. I hope STJR considers it.

 

[time gear]

You're gonna Thok yourselves into bottomless pits, lasers, and enemies. I did too. I bet you did as well.

I'm actually such a veteran that I started playing back before hazards like this were an issue, back in the final demo era. The vanilla campaign back then didn't really have a lot in the way of bottomless pits, and anything you could thok into that could hurt you was generally more of a slap on the wrist than any sort of proper punishment. As such, I got the advantage of having a proper "playground" to practice in and get good before I ever had to worry about difficulty spikes. Others being in the same boat is probably a contributing factor to more new players wanting Thok gone than veterans.

My favorite things about gaming is learning how to use something properly and even use it to your advantage. The new player should take the time to at least learn to use the Thok more properly.

I agree with your first sentence here, however skill floors are still something that need to be taken into account. Simply using the "you have a skill issue" / "git gud" argument isn't a constructive way of tackling the issue of an ability being too difficult for most new players to use effectively. Back when I first started playing the game was designed in a way that was more friendly to the thok, but now the game is littered with hazards that new players who haven't completely gotten the hang of it yet won't be able to effectively deal with. The required skill floor to complete the game is higher than it used to be, and the thok being rather unwieldy to new players isn't helping.

Also, I should note, SRB2 starts you off with SONIC AND TAILS.

Which would probably be more helpful if the combination did something a bit more substantial than allowing you to fly as Sonic after standing still for a few seconds. Perhaps a good opportunity for them to take some inspiration from the Triple Trouble 16 Bit fangame?

And as Jammin' posted, the text is still in-game, it's the player's fault for not taking caution to this.

I'd thought they removed that text quite some time ago, but my previous point regarding it still stands:

once again all this does is gatekeep playing as the title character behind a skill floor. This is the kind of warning that should exist for characters that aren't meant to be the first thing the player experiences. First impressions matter a lot, and having your title character warning you not to use them is already getting off on the wrong foot.

New players should absolutely be free to choose Sonic without having to deal with him being the closest thing to "hard mode" the game has to offer them at the time. Simply saying "You were warned so you can't complain about the character being too hard for you" isn't a good argument when the character is the title character and is part of the starting roster.

just add a tutorial into SRB2 for the Thok.

This could mitigate some of the issue with players misunderstanding its use, but it wouldn't do anything to make the level design itself more friendly to the ability. It also wouldn't change the skill floor for the ability, only provide a means of practicing to meet the skill floor requirement that many new players would consider tedious. Optional tutorials are fine, but when the game is designed in a way that makes going through an optional tutorial borderline mandatory just to be able to have fun as the title character, you have an issue.

As I've stated before:

while I do have an attachment to it being Sonic's ability, the bigger priority to me is that the thok remains a part of the vanilla experience in some form. I generally agree with STJr's sentiment that Sonic should be the baseline that the game is designed around and be approachable to newcomers. If Sonic's ability getting replaced makes the game overall better, then I don't take strong issue with that. It's an overall positive. I just don't want thok gone entirely.

The crux of the issue is that while I do enjoy the thok, I'm not about to let my passion for it become a roadblock to the game improving in quality. I don't want to see the thok gone either, and I'd be right there alongside countless others enraged if it were removed entirely. However, that doesn't mean it has to stay Sonic's ability, nor does it mean that it's impossible to replace with an ability that's actually better. Character moveset and level design go hand in hand. If the thok is too hazardous for new players in the current level design and there's no plans to change the level design to accommodate it better (which would be much more work), then the only remaining option is to use a different ability for Sonic that is more approachable. There are alternative potential fates for the thok that aren't either remaining Sonic's ability or disappearing completely from the vanilla experience, and I think it's generally a positive thing to remain open minded regarding those possibilities instead of immediately dismissing them just for being different from what we already like.

 

[Banjo268]

I'm actually such a veteran that I started playing back before hazards like this were an issue, back in the final demo era. The vanilla campaign back then didn't really have a lot in the way of bottomless pits, and anything you could thok into that could hurt you was generally more of a slap on the wrist than any sort of proper punishment. As such, I got the advantage of having a proper "playground" to practice in and get good before I ever had to worry about difficulty spikes. Others being in the same boat is probably a contributing factor to more new players wanting Thok gone than veterans.

Lucky-

I however skill floors are still something that need to be taken into account. Simply using the "you have a skill issue" / "git gud" argument isn't a constructive way of tackling the issue of an ability being too difficult for most new players to use effectively. Back when I first started playing the game was designed in a way that was more friendly to the thok, but now the game is littered with hazards that new players who haven't completely gotten the hang of it yet won't be able to effectively deal with. The required skill floor to complete the game is higher than it used to be, and the thok being rather unwieldy to new players isn't helping.

Um, I never used the "skill issue" as an argument? I mean that Sonic is what the main path in the level design is meant for, no? If not having a proper place to practice is the issue, then just follow up with my tutorial idea. I think it would work gre-

This could mitigate some of the issue with players misunderstanding its use, but it wouldn't do anything to make the level design itself more friendly to the ability. It also wouldn't change the skill floor for the ability, only provide a means of practicing to meet the skill floor requirement that many new players would consider tedious. Optional tutorials are fine, but when the game is designed in a way that makes going through an optional tutorial borderline mandatory just to be able to have fun as the title character, you have an issue.

Oh. Damn. (Quickly about the main character argument, it is very much suggested that Sonic and Tails are the best way to start off SRB2. The level design actually really challenges Sonic alone, and that's good! But not for a newcomer. I get that "they wanna play as the title guy", but when it is very clearly suggested that you should learn the game more first, then the blame is on them, not necessarily us or STJR.)

What I meant is more a streamlined tutorial. Like, after you complete the normal tutorial, when you start a new game as Sonic alone, it asks if you wanna learn how to properly use the Thok. If they deny that, then that's not on us that they made that decision, is it?

I generally agree with STJr's sentiment that Sonic should be the baseline that the game is designed around and be approachable to newcomers.

...what? Wasn't 2.2 built with the Thok in mind? Wasn't 2.2's main path built around Sonic alone and the Thok? I get that the Thok isn't friendly, but it takes time to get used to, and it becomes your greatest tool as Sonic.