SRB2 Demo 2 Remaster - 2.1.17, Beta 1

[halcyon01]

This level pack is a remaster of the 20 scrapped maps that SSNTails made for the single player campaign for Demo 2 with some improvements in some unfinished cases, the official first 4, 3 completely new maps, 7 special stages from Demo 4.35 and some secret stuff.

This level pack was made with help from Lobco, his profile is https://mb.srb2.org/member.php?u=6532.
Features old midi music, XMas Tails and Demo 4 Knux (Credit to red the fox, MetalSonicmk72 and Wolfy for the character and allowing this be free access for all) with their old sprites and old sfx along the old maps, for a more authentic demo 2 experience. Turn the quality to 320x200 for extra demo 2 immersion.
Extra props to Wolfy again for the Multi-thok lua file.
Now: Demo wad characters are not exclusive to the wad anymore. Download the demo characters rar file to get them in a separate wad.

 

[FuriousFox]

Welcome to Releases!

 

[sluggard]

I think someone beat you to it lol.
EDIT : Nvm, yours has few additions, nice work.

 

[halcyon01]

I think someone beat you to it lol.
EDIT : Nvm, yours has few additions, nice work.

I was fearing people would confuse the two, so let me explain something. This wad's purpose is to somewhat answer the question: "what if Sonikku and SSNTails went with the old scrapped maps?". The wad was mainly made because I see "the past" as a museum. This is more a way to complete the old SRB2 campaign. To...in a way, let those scrapped maps finally be completable and let them finally get the "respect" I considered they needed, shitty maps or not.

Also, FULL SRB2 TGF IS COMING WITH THE NEXT UPDATE, so you know, there's that.

 

[sluggard]

You should still fix the XMAS Characters, They all share the same Idle, Pain and Death animations / Sprites, and some of their walking angles, also the Jumping animation isn't translated because it's not Green, also I wouldn't call these Multiplayer levels, Some sections get locked after one player enters them.

 

[toaster]

Literally everything you've just described is authentic to the original, Romio, so.

I haven't had the time to play this, but judging from the complaints it's a pretty close remaster! So good job.

 

[sluggard]

^ It looks weird for a .... Remaster, Like, why would you bother playing this instead of the original, There should be at least a good to reason to playing this instead.

 

[halcyon01]

^ It looks weird for a .... Remaster, Like, why would you bother playing this instead of the original, There should be at least a good to reason to playing this instead.

Yeah, I get the complaints. Honestly, this was a remaster before Update 3, the first one that was official and the first one to be uploaded to the submissions page, was less demo 2 and more 2.1. The original maps didn't have old music or old skybox, no new textures. It used all that 2.1 had to offer, and that was a remaster! However, after finishing Update 3, I decided to go backwards and backwards to sort of connect more with Demo 2. I didn't change the name...cause well, what else could I name it? The name stuck until now. If you think I should change it, well, maybe I could! But honestly, this was just a hug to the past. A way of showing my love towards the crappy SRB2 past. I appreciate it a lot, so yeah. I just wanted to show what I could do.

EDIT= Also, the only reason I could give you is if you said to yourself "Oh, I wish SSNTails and Sonikku would have finished the scrapped maps!" If you think the past is shiz, I don't see why you would play it. Sorry if the name brought you in and gave you something you didn't want but hey, at least you didn't pay for it!

 

[sluggard]

Oh your Remake is fine, I Just find the title a little bit misleading :P.

 

[who-what-where-whale]

This is actually pretty neat, my computer can't run Demo 2 without a VM, so it's nice to have this! I have to say, this is miles better than SRB2:TP immersion-wise, which is a bit funny considering the already stated fact that the name implies that this isn't supposed to be a "we cleaned up and repaired an old car!" experience and instead a "we gave this old car all the modern doodads and gizmos and now it's just as good as the modern cars!" experience. It's still interesting though, and somehow actually sorta fun.

 

[halcyon01]

This is actually pretty neat, my computer can't run Demo 2 without a VM, so it's nice to have this! I have to say, this is miles better than SRB2:TP immersion-wise, which is a bit funny considering the already stated fact that the name implies that this isn't supposed to be a "we cleaned up and repaired an old car!" experience and instead a "we gave this old car all the modern doodads and gizmos and now it's just as good as the modern cars!" experience. It's still interesting though, and somehow actually sorta fun.

I love the fact that you can finally play the maps now with this finished single player campaign! Yeah, this is just demo 5 if demo 5 was the finished scrapped maps with the new mechanics, new physics and some "new" enemies like buzzers. I kept in touch with the original and thus used no other linedefs that didn't exist, like light/half-light blocks, slopes, and stuff like that. However, I did use the no enemies linedef checker twice and the emerald checker once cause it fit more to those levels and I could make an exception once or twice...but hey, that's secret stuff you'll have to find yourself!

 

[who-what-where-whale]

Ok, so I got to Mine Maze Zone and FUCK THIS LEVEL. The amount of absolutely infuriating level is frustrating as hell. One, please put some checkpoints in the levels, two, either make the crushers slower, or give them a different texture because at this point, it's just memorization.

 

[halcyon01]

Ok, so I got to Mine Maze Zone and FUCK THIS LEVEL. The amount of absolutely infuriating level is frustrating as hell. One, please put some checkpoints in the levels, two, either make the crushers slower, or give them a different texture because at this point, it's just memorization.

Yeah...that's kind of the point. There were never any checkpoints ever in the original games, so I can't put those. Second, when the paths split, take right. Upper path for tails/knuckles, lower path for sonic. If you come from the upper part to when the paths join, take the last room instead o-- Just kidding. But yeah, its hard. Maybe I can make some crushers a bit slower, but there will always be some memorization factor, that's how the old levels worked.

EDIT= Rocky Mountain too has some crushers and crumbling platforms, but after some time, you get used to both zones. Detons tho...they're annoying.

 

[who-what-where-whale]

Yeah...that's kind of the point. There were never any checkpoints ever in the original games, so I can't put those. Second, when the paths split, take right. Upper path for tails/knuckles, lower path for sonic. If you come from the upper part to when the paths join, take the last room instead o-- Just kidding. But yeah, its hard. Maybe I can make some crushers a bit slower, but there will always be some memorization factor, that's how the old levels worked.

EDIT= Rocky Mountain too has some crushers and crumbling platforms, but after some time, you get used to both zones. Detons tho...they're annoying.

What's the point of "remastering" a level if you're not actually going to improve it? You already added enemies from newer versions so why not add checkpoints? I get that you're trying to be faithful to the original level design, but the original level design was bullshit and was based on memorization and trial and error. There is literally no way that someone would be able to beat MMZ on their first go without getting a game over. Also, seriously, you put newer enemies in the map-pack but you won't put checkpoints?!

 

[halcyon01]

What's the point of "remastering" a level if you're not actually going to improve it? You already added enemies from newer versions so why not add checkpoints? I get that you're trying to be faithful to the original level design, but the original level design was bullshit and was based on memorization and trial and error. There is literally no way that someone would be able to beat MMZ on their first go without getting a game over. Also, seriously, you put newer enemies in the map-pack but you won't put checkpoints?!

First thing, calm down, please.
Second thing, I didn't put checkpoints cause it didn't fit the theme of the demos. But you're right. You're absolutely right. I'll put checkpoints and I'll make update 4.1 or something. But don't expect many checkpoints.
Third, we already went through this. This was a somewhat remaster in the past, but after update 3 I decided to focus a lot on immersion. But you're right. If I still call it remaster, I should at least go somewhere with it.

 

[who-what-where-whale]

First thing, calm down, please.
Second thing, I didn't put checkpoints cause it didn't fit the theme of the demos. But you're right. You're absolutely right. I'll put checkpoints and I'll make update 4.1 or something. But don't expect many checkpoints.
Third, we already went through this. This was a somewhat remaster in the past, but after update 3 I decided to focus a lot on immersion. But you're right. If I still call it remaster, I should at least go somewhere with it.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to sound angry. I was just trying to get across how absurd the whole thing felt to me. I only really have a problem with MMZ's difficulty spike.

 

[halcyon01]

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to sound angry. I was just trying to get across how absurd the whole thing felt to me. I only really have a problem with MMZ's difficulty spike.

No, yeah, I always thought there was a problem, but I always considered keeping it very similar to the original. Either way, updated it, now the whole game has checkpoints (Except for most secret levels). There are not that many, its just to not go back to the beggining and lose all progress after losing in a later part of the level.

 

[glaber]

Here are a few problems I found:

your silver ring boxes, they only award 10 rings instead of 25
some item boxes have a frame mixed up with another's
The end card is not reflective of the Demo 4 era (it's still the modern screen capture)
The Special Stage end card is the modern black one rather than the old white one
Your star post placement is off from when they were first introduced officially

GFZ3 is just a reskinned Modern GFZ3 boss (Literally same attacks and retreat patterns that were introduced in 2.1)

The cut scene between level were not necessary and feel like a regression from demo 2 to Sonic Doom 2 Bots on Mobius
the extra life icons are not centered on the monator,
THZ2's new emerald token location doesn't fit with the design of the level. (invisibal walls and use of texture in )
You have stone textures in use for the inside of a factory
Extra Detons that can't be dodged at all that weren't in the original placement

Skims were found to be missing in DSZ1 and spikes were unnecessarily added in places where there were none before. some of these placements are in areas the player needs a safe way to climb back up to get out of the water for air.
Due to an opaque water surface, hazards below can't be seen, making it hard to tell if there is a pit or land underneath. (Official levels from this era didn't hide hazards like this)
Detons in cramped hallways in DSZ
Rings are now floating in DSZ when they weren't in THZ and GFZ
The Boss arena here makes it hard to attack the boss without getting killed trying to get back above water.

You have platforms that act like death pits in Hidden palace as well as bad badnik placement at the start
Hidden Palace's sky is the wrong one
Why are there turtle badniks in this zone?
The light bridge doesn't light up
Your using the collectable emeralds as decoration, a player that has all 7 would not see them at the end of the stage.

a floor crusher is no before a set of stairs
the turtle badnik is used in place of Drillakilla
you're closing off paths that need to remain open in this level. Single player, multiplayer, it doesn't matter. you don't have an alternate path available for the player to take.
Detons here too?
missing textures on one of the path closers

the grass textures should be their corner path veirents
you also havethe sky bleading into the ground at one point
More path closers?!
Detons?!
you even have invisible walls here
why do you even have crumbling floors in the hallway to the exit of act 1?
A Deton behind where the player would spawn at a check point? why?
Your boss arena for this zone falls apart into a bottomless pit. How do you expect the player to fight?

Spikes on crucial platforms? what are you thinking?
You really need to stop placing spikes so haphazardly all over the place.
and quit it with the deton abuse

Dark city is anything but dark.
there is a rock pyrimid in the sky above the start point
Act 2's new path has reverse gravity for some reason, this does not fit with the stage.
on that same path you have clearly missing textures
More reverse gravity and death platforms.
You have the crushers with item in them instantly kill the player for daring to grab invincibility.
one of your check points gets triggered by another on the new path before you even get to it
you don't give any indication that your new button does anything
act 3 has too much gravity and can easily crush the boss in 1 hit with one of the crushers

You using stone textures on a ship now
the reverse gravity section needs reverse gravity for the whole room, not just on the walk way

instant floor or celing crush? No fun is right.
No rings should mean NO DETON. the player is defenseless against them without rings
your level extension was also cruel
Act 2 is even worse, how in the world is the play suppose to know the wall opens up?

In CEZ you have some changes that don't make any sense. Springs are missing, an fof is missing in a tunnel, you even have a red spring where there was speed shoes (located by the button the opens the door in act 1)
Deetons were reduced in the trap room (minor nitpick, this one doesn't need to be fixed)
FOF's are missing in Act 2
there are no currents where there should be
the hanging chains are missing
you trap the player in the trap room untill they destroy all the badniks (this never happened in demo 4)
Red XVI is missing (he advertised another fangame as a secret back then)

I think you need to slow down and study the levels you're "improving" before you continue. Compare how they were back then to how they developed up to now.

 

[halcyon01]

Thanks a lot for offering help for the wad.
Ring boxes: I didn't notice this at first, I thought the two ring boxes in the demos were the same, I will fix this.
Item boxes: This is a problem I have with SRB2. The item boxes reuse some sprites for when the item pops up after destroying the box, I will see if I can fix that in the future.
Special stage end card: Will be fixed.
Star post: I know, it was meant for it to make this wad "special" of some sort, but if you think its a serious problem, will be fixed.
GFZ3 boss: I honestly used it cause I felt like it stuck better as a boss. Of course, you could absolutely compare Demos and 2.1 and say that the new levels stick way better than the old ones. So yeah, I will fix it.
Cutscene: I know they kinda go backwards, but I did it cause I wanted to make the old Demos have some similarity to SRB1 and its roots with cutscenes. Of course, they're bad.
THZ2 emerald token: This was just some reference to Speed Highway and it feels like it doesn't fit, I will give you that. I couldn't think of anywhere else to fit the token, and an outside section that connects to a highway was an idea I liked. Why stuff two tokens in one level if they don't fit? How else are you getting to CEZ? Though, yeah, it was kinda unnecesary.
DETONS (goes for everytime you mention detons): Yeahhh, I see why you hate them. I dislike them too. The placement is fricking weird and just downright annoying at some places. I dislike their placement too, they're being fixed.
However, when you talk about original placement...I didn't put the detons in the original places cause they moved and attacked differently. It wouldn't fit with the new SRB2 detons. Are you saying that I could bring back the old Detons?...maybe, in the future.
BUT. Every Deton was tested, and they can all be dodged. Does it require stopping and taunting them? Yes, and I hate having done that.
Skims: Never added them to the wad. Maybe when I get around making all these custom enemies, I will do it.
Spikes: I placed them in DSZ cause they fit with me and the whole "ruins theme".
Sh**ty level design: Honestly, I didn't take my time looking at the level design, and that's something I fully take responsability and not use the typical "old srb2 would have been shitty like the wad". While its not bad in some places, it can get you badly in many places.
Hidden Palace sky: I...didn't notice that! WOW, what an idiot I am. Fixing. (EDIT: The sky is sky1 in Demo 2...so, no, that sky is correct.)
Drillakrilla: Again, no custom enemies were made for this wad. All custom enemies problems will be fixed in a not so soon update.
Mine Maze crusher and going backwards problem: Yes, I know. Level design and horrid thing placement are going to be fixed soon in...update 4.2? Yeah, that'll happen soon.
Corner grass flats in RMZ: Yes, as the idiot I was before I said "Corner grass flats? Psshh, they aren't necessary!" Looking back, I need to fix that in 4.2.
"Sky bleeding into the ground": BELIEVE ME, I tried to fix it. But I would need to get rid of that platform and get a new one or just let it like that. Its the slime graphical error, maybe I can get around it and change a bit the original level.
Invisible walls: Look, they're there to block cutting corners. They may restrict the player in a bad way, and maybe I did make a mistake there.
Crumbling floors: Its a rocky mountain! Its not going to be stable! I used crumbling platforms to MAYBE IN SOME WAY improve the level, but we all know how that turned out, right?
Spike placement: I know, that was bad, again, fixing in 4.2.
Dark City: Sorry, I turned the brightness up, I'll fix it.
Rock pyramid: That isn't a rock pyramid, Glaber, that's the hole that connects Dark City Zone and Red Volcano Zone.
Reverse gravity: Yeah, honestly I wanted to play with it a bit. If it feels that disconnected with the level, well I'll just put low gravity there and flip the enemies back.
Missing textures: I tested every map a million times, if you would give me screenshots to see what I missed I'd be glad.
Invencibility: Yeah...that was on the original levels.
Button: Sorry for that, I thought the dead end and crushing platforms in the previous room would be enough of an indication. (Not being sarcastic there, I genuinely believed that.)
DCZ boss: Yeah, of course! Robotnik messed with the gravity to get you in some trouble, so you have to use the enviroment against him...maybe I should have put the "Block enemies" flag at the center and block robotnik in that place so you use it to attack him.
Stone textures: I know, bad textures, fixing it.
Reverse gravity: I never had any problem with it, mainly cause it gives the *vague* illusion of gravity flipping in the control room as you walk.
Level extension: How was that level extension cruel? It maybe was too tight for even RobotniRock, but hey the whole level was cruel.
Wall: Yeah, maybe I didn't lay it out for everyone, but I assumed it was easy to guess. I guess I'll fix that too.
Problems with missing and swapped stuff: Yeah, those changes were never intentional. Fixing that.
FOFs in act 2: I'm pretty sure that FOFs are there. If you would show me if you are talking about some specific ones, well I'll fix those.
Currents: Fixing that.
Hanging chains: Yeah, I had many problems with decoration while making the wad and maybe deleted some stuff. Sorry, fixing that.
Red XVI: I had no idea of that secret.

Thanks a lot of the criticism, means a lot from the guy that made SRB2TP. I do have to admit that this wad...well, it was rushed. And if I'm honest, at first it was never meant to be public. I just finished update 2 and I said to myself "Hey, I'm gonna expand it for people". At the start, it was supposed my way of creating this new single player campaign? Were errors made? Of course, and I'll fix them. But I started doing this wad 1 month into summer (In Argentina, here we have summer december to february.) and I had just finished a failed romhack. I felt loss. But then, I started making this wad, in an attempt to show the community how much I appreciate the Demo cycle. Maybe more than anyone. Hell, I even love it. Back when I met the original Robotnirock in august 2016...something hit me hard. I felt like I needed to at least put a simple little closure on those maps, let them finally be finished the way they were...meant to? They may be different, but they're still the same to me.
Either way, cut all that emotional bs, Update 4.2 will fix all these errors you pointed out. Custom enemies could be done in either hypothetical 4.3 or just update 5. Either way, update 5 has like a year or two until release, cause school is going to really slow me down. Either way, I'm fixing all these errors and update 4.2...well, I don't know when it will release.

 

[glaber]

about the detons, they worked basicly the same way back then as they do today. they chase the player and explode upon contact with anything. but every time I compained about them it was because of how you used them. you gave the player no warning they were there and they were basically ambush traps.

DSZ Spikes: they don't fit with the way you used them.

Sky slime: I think you can fix that by just making a thok barrier. I suggest you take a look at how I fixed it in SRB2 the Past

Go where I can see: I tried using invisible walls (with fence) in one of my own stages before, the reception to that was poor. Players don't like being blocked from taking a path that looks like they can clearly get to, plus it's bad level design

Unstable floors of Rocky Mountain: you may have intended them to be an improvement, but it actually didn't improve things as the crumbling floor was along the only path to the exit.

Dark City's Volcano portal: the hole is still in the sky, it makes no sense.

Dark City's Gravity problem: Even low Gravity wouldn't make sense for this stage. it's not in space and there's noting that can be seen as being an anti-gravity generator.

Dark City's missing window to the outside: I can give you coordinates. the area is located in the area of X128 Y-1664. What you have is an open thok barrier, what you need to do to get the sky to show is to lower the celing all the way down to the floor.

Dark City 3's Gravity problem: There is nothing in this map indicating that gravity should be heavier. in actuality, Nothing in Sonic OVA (the inspiration for Dark City) would indicate that there is anything there manipulating gravity there.

Robotnirock's Crulity: let's start off with what was the crusher room. the platforms sink before you even land on them. Then you have it so that the Eggheads can't even be hit, but then they can hit you, and then there was that Deton hiding behind the door

Castle Eggman's Missing Wood beams and Torch holders: the missing FOF's are actually suppose to be in the first room of CEZ2.