Sonic Unleashed

[clairebun]

Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic 06, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Generations, and Sonic Forces all did this to different degrees, but it's not as much of a trend when you consider that since Adventure 2 did it, Sonic Advance, Advance 2, Battle, Advance 3, Rush, Rush Adventure (Minus the vehicle sections), Secret Rings, Black Knight, Sonic 4, Colors, Lost World, and Mania all didn't do it much if at all.

Have you noticed most of the "didn'ts" you mentioned are strictly 2D platformers or spinoffs?

This is what I mean when I say "mainline". The games which do split the game into different gameplay modes are ones which follow the Dreamcast or Unleashed gameplay formula; of those, Colors and Shadow are the only deviants.

 

[time gear]

Have you noticed most of the "didn'ts" you mentioned are strictly 2D platformers or spinoffs?

This is what I mean when I say "mainline". The games which do split the game into different gameplay modes are ones which follow the Dreamcast or Unleashed gameplay formula; of those, Colors and Shadow are the only deviants.

Heroes, Shadow, Colors (Wii), and Lost World in that case. That's only one game short of the 5 that did it. Heroes in particular is noteworthy for pretty much just having one playable character with mode changes from a technical standpoint. Your choice of "team" only changes up your moveset slightly and changes your objective in each level. Heroes loosely follows the Adventure formula, while Lost World is... Well that's a weird thing actually. It both kinda does and doesn't loosely follow the Adventure formula. The level design is totally different, and the physics don't match up at all, but I could totally see a "Sonic Adventure" type game making use of the same moveset as Lost World, minus the Wisps (And preferably also minus the multi-homing attack).

Ultimately, it doesn't fall into a constant trend. It's something that they have done many times (and yes, it annoys me too) but it's also something they've not done many times as well.

 

[someSRB2dude]

how did this get so many replies

 

[clairebun]

Heroes, Shadow, Colors (Wii), and Lost World in that case. That's only one game short of the 5 that did it. Heroes in particular is noteworthy for pretty much just having one playable character with mode changes from a technical standpoint. Your choice of "team" only changes up your moveset slightly and changes your objective in each level. Heroes loosely follows the Adventure formula, while Lost World is... Well that's a weird thing actually. It both kinda does and doesn't loosely follow the Adventure formula. The level design is totally different, and the physics don't match up at all, but I could totally see a "Sonic Adventure" type game making use of the same moveset as Lost World, minus the Wisps (And preferably also minus the multi-homing attack).

Ultimately, it doesn't fall into a constant trend. It's something that they have done many times (and yes, it annoys me too) but it's also something they've not done many times as well.

Not that you're wrong on the substance, but considering my main issue is "they do this a lot and they should probably stop", the exact score tally seems like a tangent. Even if it weren't a majority, it's plural enough that it commonly affects their mainline Sonic games.

I'll secede that not every Sonic game and their dog does the interchanging gameplay thing.

 

[Icarus]

wow the unleashed project is good

Of course it is. It's even the most important Generations mod ever made (like how Project M was for Brawl).

Wii version is obnoxious and the fact that critics generally rated it higher than the 360 version still perplexes me. The controls are absurdly stiff in both gameplay styles, and from everything I've seen the Wii version waters down a lot of the features and level variety present in the 360 version. I respect that the campaign progression system is pretty garbage in 360 and there are bad framedrops, but at the very least there must be something more compelling underneath that.

The other major problem with this game is its central premise of forcing the player to switch between different styles of gameplay constantly. I don't understand why Sonic games keep doing this. It started with Sonic Adventure 2 and it's never stopped, and it feels like I'm trying to juggle two or three different game modes at once. Nevermind the extra dev workload that comes from designing an extra set of core mechanics and level gimmicks to compliment them; if it has to be in the game, maybe make it a completely separate side gig and... I dunno, replace werehog with Chaos 0? Take the Sonic Adventure 1 route and split them into different stories. We could be having different conversations about mainline Sonic games if SEGA's design philosophy wasn't to forcefeed its player three different entrées at the same time.

It started with Sonic Adventure 1 because you're still being forced to do all 6 characters' stories to see the true final boss and the true ending.

I feel like Sega felt like they needed to artificially make the game longer when the spirit of the series is replayability (especially Sonic 2, CD and 3&K).

Also Unwiished had several elements that were better than the PS360 one (like the Gaia gate being the hub instead of having to roam in Spagonia).

Post automatically merged: Mar 12, 2021

Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic 06, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Generations, and Sonic Forces all did this to different degrees, but it's not as much of a trend when you consider that since Adventure 2 did it, Sonic Advance, Advance 2, Battle, Advance 3, Rush, Rush Adventure (Minus the vehicle sections), Secret Rings, Black Knight, Sonic 4, Colors, Lost World, and Mania all didn't do it much if at all.

That having been said though, I do think Adventure 2, 06, Unleashed, Generations, and Forces all would have benefitted greatly from splitting off into different story modes with their own completion on the save file rather than juggling back and forth between characters/gameplay styles. Even Adventure 2 could still have done the whole Hero and Dark thing by splitting it into two different SA1 style character select wheels, each having their own overall completion based on completing the individual character stories. It's something that's always been a nitpick of mine as well, as if I feel like playing as one character I don't want to be forced to play as someone else.

Not that you're wrong on the substance, but considering my main issue is "they do this a lot and they should probably stop", the exact score tally seems like a tangent. Even if it weren't a majority, it's plural enough that it commonly affects their mainline Sonic games.

I'll secede that not every Sonic game and their dog does the interchanging gameplay thing.

And then again Heroes forces you to redo the game 4 times and Shadow the game 10 times (following 6 levels in a path of 22).

That's why I really want the next Sonic game to follow a character formula closer to Sonic 3&K, Mania and Robo Blast 2 (having a choice of your character but in the same levels for everyone with slight variations).

 

[Chezi]

Are we forgetting that Generations doesn’t force you to switch between gameplay styles? The game completely allows you to do all Act 1 stages in a era before moving on to the Act 2 stages and vice versa. The only exception is Green Hill and that’s because it’s the tutorial level

 

[Icarus]

Are we forgetting that Generations doesn’t force you to switch between gameplay styles? The game completely allows you to do all Act 1 stages in a era before moving on to the Act 2 stages and vice versa. The only exception is Green Hill and that’s because it’s the tutorial level

Technically you're still forced to do both playstyle to finish the game.

Also the fact you were forced to do several side missions to go to the boss is a negative point.

 

[someSRB2dude]

Of course it is. It's even the most important Generations mod ever made (like how Project M was for Brawl).

Yeah its god like, however i got stuck at Savanna Citade

 

[Chezi]

Technically you're still forced to do both playstyle to finish the game.

Also the fact you were forced to do several side missions to go to the boss is a negative point.

The point is that the game allowed me to play it in whatever order I chose. I did a recent blind play through and I didn’t feel forced to do anything. I assume the same thing was true for Sonic Adventure 1

 

[Icarus]

The point is that the game allowed me to play it in whatever order I chose. I did a recent blind play through and I didn’t feel forced to do anything. I assume the same thing was true for Sonic Adventure 1

I think I've already said it but Sonic 3&K, Robo Blast 2 and Mania handled multiple playable character better than anything else...

Tails and Knuckles could've been in every areas of Sonic's stages in Adventure.

 

[Chezi]

I think I've already said it but Sonic 3&K, Robo Blast 2 and Mania handled multiple playable character better than anything else...

Tails and Knuckles could've been in every areas of Sonic's stages in Adventure.

And no one disagreed with you on that point. I was trying to say that Generations and Adventure don’t run into the same issue as Unleashed by allowing you to go to a different play style as you wish. Whether or not characters share the same stage doesn’t really matter in that aspect because it’s about the gameplay style, not the level itself

 

[Icarus]

And no one disagreed with you on that point. I was trying to say that Generations and Adventure don’t run into the same issue as Unleashed by allowing you to go to a different play style as you wish. Whether or not characters share the same stage doesn’t really matter in that aspect because it’s about the gameplay style, not the level itself

Do you think that the game should've alternated between Day and Night parts in the same level like in Eggmanland?

 

[Chezi]

Do you think that the game should've alternated between Day and Night parts in the same level like in Eggmanland?

1. That’s not what I was arguing for
2. It makes sense to do it in Eggmanland seeing as it was the final level, like how they used every character for the final level in Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes etc.

If that type of mechanic was just a regular level mechanic, than that would be an obvious no-no because you don’t spend enough time with one style.

 

[time gear]

Unleashed would have benefitted greatly in my opinion by splitting off the Day/Night gameplay styles into two different stories. Perhaps instead of Sonic turning into a werehog, you have a Sonic story and a Knuckles story. You beat the stories in whatever order you wish (Or either one a little bit at a time switching back and forth if you want). Then after you beat both stories, they team up at the end for the final level with the player alternating between both styles.

I don't feel like it's at all necessary for all playable characters to go through the same levels. It's nice when multiple characters do go through the same level on occasion, it's certainly a positive bonus, but I don't see it as a negative point when they don't handle it that way. Sonic Adventure had the right idea. I also feel like Adventure's formula of needing to play as all the characters to unlock the final story works quite well. It's basically like a bonus chapter as a reward for beating all the other chapters. You aren't required to play as anyone you don't want to, you just get rewarded for doing so.

 

[someSRB2dude]

How is this post popular?

 

[Icarus]

Unleashed would have benefitted greatly in my opinion by splitting off the Day/Night gameplay styles into two different stories. Perhaps instead of Sonic turning into a werehog, you have a Sonic story and a Knuckles story. You beat the stories in whatever order you wish (Or either one a little bit at a time switching back and forth if you want). Then after you beat both stories, they team up at the end for the final level with the player alternating between both styles.

Riders handled it pretty well as you got the Rogue's story after Sonic's (and the fact the 3 styles are still similar).

I don't feel like it's at all necessary for all playable characters to go through the same levels. It's nice when multiple characters do go through the same level on occasion, it's certainly a positive bonus, but I don't see it as a negative point when they don't handle it that way. Sonic Adventure had the right idea. I also feel like Adventure's formula of needing to play as all the characters to unlock the final story works quite well. It's basically like a bonus chapter as a reward for beating all the other chapters. You aren't required to play as anyone you don't want to, you just get rewarded for doing so.

Robo Blast 2 begs to differ (along with Mania).

 

[time gear]

Robo Blast 2 begs to differ (along with Mania).

SRB2 and Mania are certainly using working formulas, but to go so far as to use that as evidence that everything else in the series should use that formula is far too limiting. I believe that both SRB2 and Sonic Adventure both use different, equally valid approaches to how to structure a Sonic game.

 

[Icarus]

SRB2 and Mania are certainly using working formulas, but to go so far as to use that as evidence that everything else in the series should use that formula is far too limiting. I believe that both SRB2 and Sonic Adventure both use different, equally valid approaches to how to structure a Sonic game.

And yet Robo Blast 2 and Mania are considered to be far superior to most (if not all) games made by the Sonic Team in the last two decades.

And no, I don't find being able to play as Tails and Knuckles in the same levels to be equally valid as being forced to fish or hunt treasures.

 

[time gear]

And yet Robo Blast 2 and Mania are considered to be far superior to most (if not all) games made by the Sonic Team in the last two decades.

And no, I don't find being able to play as Tails and Knuckles in the same levels to be equally valid as being forced to fish or hunt treasures.

That's false. Majority opinion (Assuming it even was a majority to begin with, who's to say when it comes to the internet who is truly a majority and which opinion is just louder) does not equate to fact. If someone likes any game more than any other game, their opinion is valid.

You are not forced to fish or hunt for treasure in Sonic Adventure. These gameplay styles are character specific, and are only required if you intend on unlocking the completely optional final story. You can easily just sit down and do a Sonic only playthrough, or only play as Sonic and Tails, etc. and you will never have to play any gameplay style you don't want to aside from maybe the Sky Chase levels, which if you're going to hold that against Sonic Adventure then you'd have to hold it against Sonic 2 and Sonic Mania as well.

 

[Chezi]

And yet Robo Blast 2 and Mania are considered to be far superior to most (if not all) games made by the Sonic Team in the last two decades.

And no, I don't find being able to play as Tails and Knuckles in the same levels to be equally valid as being forced to fish or hunt treasures.

By this logic, we should have Sonic put greater emphasis on platforming and collecting Power Stars because SM64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Galaxy 2, and Odyssey are considered superior games when compared to most 3D platformers

See the flaw in your logic yet?