Sonic mania theory

[Chezi]

Dimensions doesn't always equal time travel.

Let's say that the Classic and Adventure era are just two completely separate timelines (as Adventure was some sort of soft reboot for the series).

And to be honest time travel should've only been self-contained like in Sonic CD rather than in the entire series.

I know they don’t always equal the same the thing, but it does in the context of the Sonic series. From Adventure onwards, Sonic has memories of what happened in the Classic games as seen in Generations. A Soft Reboot doesn’t mean that they reset all the lore and make a new universe; that’s a Hard Reboot. The 2016 Ghostbusters movie is an example of a Hard Reboot whereas Maleficent can be considered a Soft Reboot since it builds on the original story using that same characters and experiences. They only reboot for the Sonic series is Boom because of how it is just a brand new version of Sonic that could have been intended to replace the current Sonic

 

[time gear]

I know they don’t always equal the same the thing, but it does in the context of the Sonic series. From Adventure onwards, Sonic has memories of what happened in the Classic games as seen in Generations. A Soft Reboot doesn’t mean that they reset all the lore and make a new universe; that’s a Hard Reboot. The 2016 Ghostbusters movie is an example of a Hard Reboot whereas Maleficent can be considered a Soft Reboot since it builds on the original story using that same characters and experiences. They only reboot for the Sonic series is Boom because of how it is just a brand new version of Sonic that could have been intended to replace the current Sonic

Yeah, all the Classic stuff still happened before Adventure, with the exception of Mania which happens in a series of events that leads down a new and different path.

 

[SONIcsez1234]

Then how do you explain the time eater and generations

Dimensions doesn't always equal time travel.

Let's say that the Classic and Adventure era are just two completely separate timelines (as Adventure was some sort of soft reboot for the series).

And to be honest time travel should've only been self-contained like in Sonic CD rather than in the entire series.

 

[Icarus]

The Time Eater is barely acknowledged after Generations. I feel like the Phantom Ruby could've been actually related to it as the effect is similar but sadly no.

I also want Iizuka to stop messing with the series and that entire "two worlds" story for once.

Forces has put more plotholes to the world-building than before.

 

[Chezi]

The Time Eater is barely acknowledged after Generations. I feel like the Phantom Ruby could've been actually related to it as the effect is similar but sadly no.

I also want Iizuka to stop messing with the series and that entire "two worlds" story for once.

Forces has put more plotholes to the world-building than before.

Just because something is no longer acknowledged doesn’t mean it’s impact is gone and there isn’t that many plot holes in Forces that you make it sound like there is. The only plot holes actually present in Forces are ones that affect its standalone story rather than the overarching story. Tails saying Classic Sonic is from another dimension is not a plot hole, just a poor choice of words

 

[Icarus]

Just because something is no longer acknowledged doesn’t mean it’s impact is gone and there isn’t that many plot holes in Forces that you make it sound like there is. The only plot holes actually present in Forces are ones that affect its standalone story rather than the overarching story. Tails saying Classic Sonic is from another dimension is not a plot hole, just a poor choice of words

Let's be honest there, Shadow the Hedgehog could've simply never happened and the series wouldn't change the slightest.

And Forces' script was a big mess (the japanese one is a bit better)

 

[time gear]

Let's be honest there, Shadow the Hedgehog could've simply never happened and the series wouldn't change the slightest.

And Forces' script was a big mess (the japanese one is a bit better)

None of that is enough to make anything non-canon or equate to a reboot or anything. What exactly is the point you are trying to make here aside from "Shadow TH and Forces suck"?

 

[Chezi]

Let's be honest there, Shadow the Hedgehog could've simply never happened and the series wouldn't change the slightest.

And Forces' script was a big mess (the japanese one is a bit better)

This sounds like, “These games don’t support my argument and I’m therefore choosing to ignore them because they’re bad games.”

 

[Darknik]

Let's be honest there, Shadow the Hedgehog could've simply never happened and the series wouldn't change the slightest.

That's not true, it even seems that you didn't even play the game Shadow The Hedgehog does affect the chronology in many ways

In the first place, in Shadow The Hedgehog, the purpose of the eclipse cannon is told, or is it that you never wondered why a space colony with research purposes had such a weapon of mass destruction

secondly, the history of Shadow in Sonic 2006 is completely linked to that of Shadow the Hedgehog or you never wondered why he joined Gun

Thirdly, it marks the first appearance of the gun commander who later reappears in Sonic Chronicles.

 

[Icarus]

This sounds like, “These games don’t support my argument and I’m therefore choosing to ignore them because they’re bad games.”

This is what Sega should do honestly and this is also why games like Colors are much more appreciated, it didn't try to clutter the story with elements of past games so it can be a nice and fun self-contained story.

 

[Chezi]

This is what Sega should do honestly and this is also why games like Colors are much more appreciated, it didn't try to clutter the story with elements of past games so it can be a nice and fun self-contained story.

So, what was the point in saying Shadow the Hedgehog sucks and that the Forces script was a big mess and should therefore not be counted into any sort of timeline theory. You’re starting to derail this topic from the Timeline theory to Sega makes shitty games and this is how they should improve

 

[Icarus]

So, what was the point in saying Shadow the Hedgehog sucks and that the Forces script was a big mess and should therefore not be counted into any sort of timeline theory. You’re starting to derail this topic from the Timeline theory to Sega makes shitty games and this is how they should improve

I'll be honest with you for one second: I think that Sega didn't want Mania to be canon so they made that "Timeline" thing so they could simply ditch Mania into the closet so they won't have to deal with the timelines shenanigans anymore.

I think that Sega's mistake was trying to tie the series together by making every game connected so we ended up having a mess like 2006.

I'm thankful that Unleashed, despite taking a lot from the first Adventure (having a big monster, hubs and multiple play styles), didn't try too hard to talk about the events of Adventure 1, 2, Heroes and Shadow.

I think that officially we got Sonic 1, Generations for Classic, 2, 3, & Knuckles, CD, 4 Episode 1, 4 Episode 2 then the first Adventure game.

Maybe Unleashed was actually kind off a semi-reboot as nothing was mentionned before and we haven't seen Knuckles nor Shadow but it's unsure.

I hope that the upcoming "Sonic Rangers" will be a self-contained story like Colors.


And I kinda wish Sega would officially say that the Modern era ended with Forces and that this will be an entirely new one.

 

[Chezi]

I'll be honest with you for one second: I think that Sega didn't want Mania to be canon so they made that "Timeline" thing so they could simply ditch Mania into the closet so they won't have to deal with the timelines shenanigans anymore.

They put Mania in a separate timeline because 1. It would conflict with Forces and what was already established in Generations and 2. so that they could keep making Classic styled games without contradicting the main timeline

I think that Sega's mistake was trying to tie the series together by making every game connected so we ended up having a mess like 2006.

They don’t even really try to make every game interconnected. They only times they’ve really done that was for anniversary titles like Generations, Mania, and Forces. 06 hardly recognizes events from other games aside from character related things like Shadow’s backstory

I'm thankful that Unleashed, despite taking a lot from the first Adventure (having a big monster, hubs and multiple play styles), didn't try too hard to talk about the events of Adventure 1, 2, Heroes and Shadow.

Again, a lot of games tend to do this

I think that officially we got Sonic 1, Generations for Classic, 2, 3, & Knuckles, CD, 4 Episode 1, 4 Episode 2 then the first Adventure game.

This is pretty much correct, although it would make more sense for the Generations split to happen after 3&K/CD (depends on how you order those games) due to Classic Sonic knowing how to deal with Metal Sonic and the fact that the Death Egg Robot got a massive upgrade.

Maybe Unleashed was actually kind off a semi-reboot as nothing was mentionned before and we haven't seen Knuckles nor Shadow but it's unsure.

Just because a game doesn’t mention previous games, it doesn’t mean that it’s a reboot of sorts. If that were the case, then pretty much every Mario game is a reboot

I hope that the upcoming "Sonic Rangers" will be a self-contained story like Colors.

Going off of what happens in earlier non-anniversary games, yes that will likely be the case

And I kinda wish Sega would officially say that the Modern era ended with Forces and that this will be an entirely new one.

Eras are defined by the gameplay mechanics within the current games. Lost World could have been the start of a new Era, but Forces going back to Boost puts it back in with the Boost Era

 

[Icarus]

I thought that eras were about the major games (like Sonic 2006 jumstarting the modern era).

Anyway, about what I said, yes, Shadow and 2006 are garbage and shouldn't be canon (at least '06 is non canon thanks to its ending).

I'd even go as far as saying that Shadow should be confirmed to be an android and not the one from SA2, it would've been much better.

I wish Mania would've rebooted the franchise back to 2D (like how Crash 4 would retcon any post-ND games)

 

[Chezi]

Anyway, about what I said, yes, Shadow and 2006 are garbage and shouldn't be canon (at least '06 is non canon thanks to its ending).

A game sucks =\= non-canon

In fact, we know for a fact that Shadow and 06 is indeed canon because of Generations. Crisis City appears in Generations by being picked out from the original timeline, meaning that 06 has happened at some point in time. Because 06 builds off of Shadow, that means Shadow is canon in both timelines.

For the record, Canonicity and Continuity are two different things. Continuity refers to the flow of time and events whereas Canonicity refers to the realm of possibility within a franchise

I'd even go as far as saying that Shadow should be confirmed to be an android and not the one from SA2, it would've been much better.

And I’m also pretty sure that Shadow accepts the fact that he isn’t the original, but does have memories from SA2 because he’s a perfect clone

 

[Icarus]

A game sucks =\= non-canon

It should honestly, the CDI Zelda games aren't in the official timeline.

I also believe that Sega didn't even consider the Advance nor the Rush game canon... Which is unfair because they're good.

 

[Chezi]

It should honestly, the CDI Zelda games aren't in the official timeline.

I also believe that Sega didn't even consider the Advance nor the Rush game canon... Which is unfair because they're good.

Lmao you really just ignored a ton of things didn’t you?

The CD-I games aren’t considered canon not because they’re bad, but because they weren’t made by Nintendo. That was a terrible example.

As for the Rush and Advance games, they are considered canon. The Advance series just plainly doesn’t have any everlasting impact on the series and the Rush games were acknowledged by the 3DS version of Generations where it replaced (guess what?) Crisis City. I’d consider this more proof that the Rush games take place in the new timeline where Solaris doesn’t exist

 

[time gear]

I'll be honest with you for one second: I think that Sega didn't want Mania to be canon so they made that "Timeline" thing so they could simply ditch Mania into the closet so they won't have to deal with the timelines shenanigans anymore.

This doesn't make any sense. They were fine with Sonic 4 being canon but not Mania? Their way of stopping it from being canon was to... make it canon? Think Mark, think!

Mania isn't part of an alternate timeline because of a problem with canon, it's on an alternate timeline because it follows the natural events coming after Generations from Classic Sonic's point of view, and expands it's canon possibilities. If it took place in the Modern Timeline, there would be limited potential to have games take place after it because of Adventure. By being on a new timeline, they can release as many new Classic Sonic style games as they want and not contradict anything. I would have thought you of all people would be the most aware and enthusiastic about this. After all, you're always hating on Modern Sonic by saying stuff like this:

And I kinda wish Sega would officially say that the Modern era ended with Forces and that this will be an entirely new one.

As someone who seems to hate Modern Sonic so much, shouldn't Mania's new timeline be the best news possible? Sure, they don't seem to be working on a sequel currently, but it's only a matter of time before they return to the Mania timeline. SEGA loves money, and the Mania timeline is a perfect cash cow ready for milking.

 

[Chezi]

Mania isn't part of an alternate timeline because of a problem with canon, it's on an alternate timeline because it follows the natural events coming after Generations from Classic Sonic's point of view, and expands it's canon possibilities.

SEGA loves money, and the Mania timeline is a perfect cash cow ready for milking.

With all of this in mind and the fact that Classic Eggman knows how Modern Eggman failed, it should make him a bigger threat. He knows exactly what’ll happen if the Master Emerald is to break open and he knows exactly what’s on Space Colony ARK. Imagine a Classic reimagining of many of Sonic’s stories. Shadow would still have his Modern form, so Classic Eggman opening his capsule up earlier could give Shadow the advantage over Sonic since they’re no longer equally matched like they were in SA2. Now Shadow is taller and likely faster. Classic Eggman would also know not to unleash the Biolizard, so he would still maintain control over the ARK.

There is so many new possibilities that could happen and Mania was a sneak peek of that

 

[Icarus]

As someone who seems to hate Modern Sonic so much, shouldn't Mania's new timeline be the best news possible? Sure, they don't seem to be working on a sequel currently,

Since when did I say that I hate Modern sonic? I was talking about Mania's timeline becoming the main one after Forces (as Robotnik was defeated for good in this game).

but it's only a matter of time before they return to the Mania timeline. SEGA loves money, and the Mania timeline is a perfect cash cow ready for milking.

Hopefully so, this would also be a good way to improve the series.