Mystic removal discussion - The good and the bad

Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Judge
There is no stoking of the flames going on, don't be like that. A very legitimate question was asked about a very real predator to the community, based on what you said.

If you didn't mean to imply that you knew this person was a groomer back then, then you must have chosen the wrong words, because that's exactly what you implied, actually.
 

Jazz

Member
JTE had no involvement on the official development team until 2.0.7. We did however lift code from his 2.0 era mod, hence his name in the credits as a "coding assistant".


The last release I participated in was 2.0.6, I left the dev team some time after. JTE was brought on the team after I left.
 

ash

formerly "ash"
c) I only saw development through 2.0.4. It’s likely he had involvement in 2.0.6 and 2.0.7.

he's in 2.0.0's credits.

So please, stop stoking the flames.

i wasn't; you directly addressed me in this thread and brought him up again. i very, very much don't enjoy having to revisit a period where i experienced CSA and was very willing to say my peace and be done with it.

i won't be responding to anymore posts involving him beyond this post; this thread is about Mystic and we're both derailing it. if you'd like to discuss this further with me, my DMs are always open.

EDIT: i was given the OK to discuss this as long as we keep it civil. it's a sensitive topic for me, though. please go easy.

I know you were hurt, but nobody that could have done something about it knew so at the time.

this is not true. i would appreciate if you wouldn't victim-blame... what happened to you? you used to be so much more understanding. or, i guess, maybe i just didn't know you well enough ��

I was not a big community guy anyway — I had a game to make.

many people believe that willfully ignoring these issues because you "had a game to make" was the wrong call.

looking forward to your post; should be interesting. wishing you the best.
 
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Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Judge
A very many skeletons are getting dug out of the closet in the wake of the administrative change, and it can get pretty ugly.

I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that this is actually okay, and even ideal. It means people are feeling safe enough to discuss bad stuff that happened here years ago and finally get closure.

Digging out those bones is ugly and brings up bad memories of things that never resolved properly, but it also, finally, gives them a chance to receive a proper burial.

Then, everyone can finally move on.
 

SSNTails

What part of 'RETIRED' don't you understand?
JTE had no involvement on the official development team until 2.0.7. We did however lift code from his 2.0 era mod, hence his name in the credits as a "coding assistant".


The last release I participated in was 2.0.6, I left the dev team some time after. JTE was brought on the team after I left.


I rest my case. You can even ask Alam and Logan to pull the old SVN logs to prove that JTE had NO team access or involvement other than us lifting code from one of his projects, as Jazz said.

I’m happy to trade apologies if you are willing.
 

ash

formerly "ash"
I rest my case. You can even ask Alam and Logan to pull the old SVN logs to prove that JTE had NO team access or involvement other than us lifting code from one of his projects, as Jazz said.

I’m happy to trade apologies if you are willing.

ignoring the entirety of my post to claim "victory" because "we only lifted his code, he wasn't on the team, see??" is the exact kind of behavior this community seems to be desperately trying to move away from.

you... knew about him, didn't feel good about him being around, but you used his code and put him in the credits despite this. then, later on (you were still around, just not working on the game, yeah?) he was officially put on the team.

i'm not sure what case you're resting here—i'm not sure what point it is you're trying to make. that you didn't know, but others did? that the game took priority and his behavior wasn't relevant, but everything's fine now because he was removed 10 years later after doing free work for you?

i'm pretty lost, but your treatment of this conversation is telling me a lot about how and why someone like Mystic got to where he was, among others.
 

fickleheart

ms reflec beat stan
SSN, you're being incredibly self-centered right now. Ash's comments were never about you until you made them about you. His statements were:

  • JTE was a member of the dev team (true, from 2012 at the latest judging by the date of a stickied post somewhere on this forum. I had personal experience with him on the team.)
  • JTE groomed him (trustworthy account - as stated, he was not the only one affected.)
  • The behavior was ignored by Mystic upon being reported (also trustworthy account - I know other people who had the same thing happen)
Whether or not you approved of him being in the dev team, or it even happened under your watch, is irrelevant because nobody was blaming you. Whether or not you knew about his actions is not the point here because nobody was blaming you. You are owed no apology here for sticking your nose into accusations that did not affect you.
 

TehRealSalt

(σᴥσ)
Kart Krew™️
If anything, SSN, making it about you has only dug a much worse looking hole for yourself -- apparently you knew about their behavior, and the extent of your action was "eh, I'll try to avoid putting them on the team myself", rather than taking real steps to remove them back then.

I suggest you take a break and calmly collect your words before you continue :V
 
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SSNTails

What part of 'RETIRED' don't you understand?
Alright, sorry, I misinterpreted what Ash was saying. I thought he was asking me why I had allowed him on the team when I knew what he was doing, when that is false, and I had no idea of the things he was doing.

So Ash, please accept my apology. I know this situation has been hard on so many, and like Charyb said, it’s good that we can talk about it.
 

Chimera

Your best friend
I can't and won't speak for Ash. I will say, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not backpeddling, and -- because this is a very serious topic that rightfully has everyone on edge-- you legitimately just felt attacked based on a misread of Ash's messaging. Hopefully he gives you the same grace.

I will say tho, as someone who also had to deal with JTE, if you were aware of their behavior in any form and and just put that aside so their work could get included in the final product, that's pretty disgusting.

I'm gonna trust that's not what happened.
 

SSNTails

What part of 'RETIRED' don't you understand?
I can't and won't speak for Ash. I will say, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not backpeddling, and -- because this is a very serious topic that rightfully has everyone on edge-- you legitimately just felt attacked based on a misread of Ash's messaging. Hopefully he gives you the same grace.

I will say tho, as someone who also had to deal with JTE, if you were aware of their behavior in any form and and just put that aside so their work could get included in the final product, that's pretty disgusting.

I'm gonna trust that's not what happened.

Bingo. All of his work was done independently, and we effectively stole it (GPL, yay). Because we didn’t want to be total jerks about stealing his code, we gave him a credit line. Unfortunately, now it has to be answered for.
 

ash

formerly "ash"
Ash, please accept my apology.

No.

i'm now very weary of interacting with you. i used to come to you for advice and would feel downright special when you would give me input on my levels and junk. but now, learning more from this thread, i just feel uncomfortable being around you.

i can't accept this apology. mostly because i don't even know what you're apologizing for—it seems completely performative.

i'm not sure what force is compelling you to contribute to this thread like you have been, and it might be more worthwhile for everyone for you to be honest about whatever this motivation might be.
 
I don't want to throw myself into intricacies here. But using JTE's code does not equal willingly adding him into the team.


I really do believe you are a amazing to bring this game into life, SSN. But trying to dodge responsibility really gives off the feeling you are trying to brush something under the carpet. Quite unnecessarily, I think.



I guess those were unfortunate circumstances and I really hope this doesn't devolve into a blame game. I want to see this community grow out of it. Srb2 2.2 is amazing and I want to see more from where that came from!
 

Panda.

Just a remapper.
SSNTails said:
Bingo. All of his work was done independently, and we effectively stole it (GPL, yay). Because we didn’t want to be total jerks about stealing his code, we gave him a credit line. Unfortunately, now it has to be answered for.
Umm and why do you steal? You have to ask JTE permissions from the codes he has worked when he was permbanned, because taking stolen codes from someone who worked to develop the game and he was permbanned is an intrusive to him
 
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Chimera

Your best friend
Umm and why do you steal? You have to ask Ash permissions from the codes he has worked when he was permbanned, because taking stolen codes from someone who worked to develop the game and he was permbanned is an intrusive to him

SSN's talking about JTE's code that they made independently in their own projects (such as SRB2JTE etc), not Ash's code.

GPL / General Public License means any code you make under it is up for grabs for other GPU licensed software as long as those projects remain open source--which SRB2 is. Meaning even if Ash made code that was used in SRB2 (again it wasn't, it was JTE), while permabanned, using it would still be "fine." Kinda shitty, but perfectly "fine" in the context of the GPL.

The issues right now go a bit beyond that.

EDIT: GDI silver ^^; mods please trash this post thank u
 

toaster

トースタちゃん
Kart Krew™️
The title does suggest that. But the topic developed in a way that it ultimately became about the rot (barely) hidden underneath the surface of the SRB2 community, of which Mystic is just the most prominent example, and although I'm not a moderator I'm pretty confident the new leadership isn't gonna try to steer it away from this kind of reckoning.
 
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