My opinions about Version 2.2

[BomberBlur07]

Back when v2.2 was originally released, I was hyped just like the rest of the crowd, waiting patiently™ for it to release. And obviously, I loved it. But there is a catch, that was well over a year ago, and it was my first experience with SRB2. When I delved deep into SRB2's history however, I felt that something was wrong. V2.2 suddenly felt inferior. Many people consider v2.2 as the best SRB2 version ever made, but I believe that everything that made SRB2 "SRB2" was gone in 2.2. I honestly prefer pre-v2.1 to v2.2 in most aspects such as music. V2.2 doesn't feel like SRB2 anymore, more like a generic fangame. And with the upcoming removal of the Thok, its losing more and more of its past. All of the old spirit, the old days, its all gone. This is the reason why I was interested Demo/Pre-Demo, it was the good (g)old days of SRB2, and I wanted to live that era. It's kinda sad to look at, what once was one of the most ambitious Sonic fangames ever is now a pastless, generic fangame.

 

[53524232415247]

A few days before v2.2 released, I really was excited about the game releasing on Dec 7th, 2019.
Now, when I remember the good old days when SRB2 was about to enter a whole new stage, I miss it so much. :c

 

[Unknownlight]

I've lived through all that. Throughout my childhood I grew up with the demo releases of SRB2.

Good riddance.

 

[clairebun]

It's kinda sad to look at, what once was one of the most ambitious Sonic fangames ever is now a pastless, generic fangame.

"Pastless" -- Doesn't the fact that you're comparing 2.2 to its previous versions kind of suggest the opposite?

Post automatically merged: Sep 22, 2021

This is the reason why I was interested Demo/Pre-Demo, it was the good (g)old days of SRB2, and I wanted to live that era.

It kinda sucked lol. Controls were bad, netplay was super unstable, and generally there was a lot of crust in level design and game mechanics. This goes for 2.0 as well, which made improvements in some areas and detractions in others.

In real life, it's almost always more fun to peer through the looking glass at bygone eras than it is to have actually lived through those times. SRB2's no different.

Post automatically merged: Sep 22, 2021

I honestly prefer pre-v2.1 to v2.2 in most aspects such as music.

Credit where it's due, there is a very distinct late-90's midi flare to the old soundtrack that I'm fond of but which is also difficult to recreate without strictly sticking to the softsynthesizers used to render the OST. In the end, musical preference is largely a matter of aesthetics. As a composer and arranger, I usually try to remain faithful to some elements of the originals, but ultimately my aim is to build off of them, rather than to create copies of the originals in a different soundfont.

 

[Lamibe]

The more we went and the more we remove stuff that make SRB2 what it is. Like thok being basically a symbol of SRB2 and yet people want to remove it and replace it with a generic drop dash/bounce/wall jump thing. SRB2 without the thok will not be the same

 

[Chezi]

The more we went and the more we remove stuff that make SRB2 what it is. Like thok being basically a symbol of SRB2 and yet people want to remove it and replace it with a generic drop dash/bounce/wall jump thing. SRB2 without the thok will not be the same

I mean, would you rather the Thok or real momentum in the game?

 

[sluggard]

I do kind of miss the old SRB2 blocky / slopeless level design, SSN characters and classic soundtrack, has a unique charm to it, but thankfully old versions can still be downloaded so I appreciate that.

 

[lnferno]

The more we went and the more we remove stuff that make SRB2 what it is. Like thok being basically a symbol of SRB2 and yet people want to remove it and replace it with a generic drop dash/bounce/wall jump thing. SRB2 without the thok will not be the same

Quick question: A symbol inside or outside the community? For the record, until I started playing SRB2, I literally had no clue what a "Thok" was, and I'd imagine there's quite a few other people in that same camp.

Post automatically merged: Sep 24, 2021

I do kind of miss the old SRB2 blocky / slopeless level design, SSN characters and classic soundtrack, has a unique charm to it, but thankfully old versions can still be downloaded so I appreciate that.

That's understandable. I wouldn't call the earlier versions better, but there is definitely some charm in some older versions.

 

[SilverVortex]

i think it's important to consider that this game is being made by several different people, and even over the course of the past few years has been passed over different hands and design philosophies and goals in mind.
the thok may have been an icon inside the community for what it was as sonic's move, but the game is changing day by day and unfortunately sonic's abilities have to change with it. there's no merit to being stuck in the past, all it really does (especially in game design) is make everything feel the same as it was before and hinder new ideas that could potentially be great. give 2.3 a chance, there's no knowing if it'll be good or not until we play it.

 

[clairebun]

The more we went and the more we remove stuff that make SRB2 what it is. Like thok being basically a symbol of SRB2 and yet people want to remove it and replace it with a generic drop dash/bounce/wall jump thing. SRB2 without the thok will not be the same

The thok isn't fundamental to SRB2's identity, and I think character mechanics can and should be modified if it would improve gameplay. What sets SRB2 apart from other fangames is its Doom-based engine and its high moddability. You could make a much stronger argument that changing the game's look to use models instead of sprites would change its identity.

 

[rox]

Back when v2.2 was originally released, I was hyped just like the rest of the crowd, waiting patiently™ for it to release. And obviously, I loved it. But there is a catch, that was well over a year ago, and it was my first experience with SRB2. When I delved deep into SRB2's history however, I felt that something was wrong. V2.2 suddenly felt inferior. Many people consider v2.2 as the best SRB2 version ever made, but I believe that everything that made SRB2 "SRB2" was gone in 2.2. I honestly prefer pre-v2.1 to v2.2 in most aspects such as music. V2.2 doesn't feel like SRB2 anymore, more like a generic fangame. And with the upcoming removal of the Thok, its losing more and more of its past. All of the old spirit, the old days, its all gone. This is the reason why I was interested Demo/Pre-Demo, it was the good (g)old days of SRB2, and I wanted to live that era. It's kinda sad to look at, what once was one of the most ambitious Sonic fangames ever is now a pastless, generic fangame.

nice opinion i like ur opinion its very good and high quality i wish i had an opinion like it o wait i do because i literally agree

 

[time gear]

As long as Thok isn't outright removed, which to my knowledge was never the agenda anyway, I've pretty much made my peace with Sonic's ability being changed. It's got a certain mobile practicality to it when you've gotten good with it that's just too addicting to let go of entirely. The Thok can be moved over to Metal Sonic, though as I've said many times it would be a huge waste to just make him into "Old Sonic". He should still have other things unique about him to set him apart from the rest of the cast.

In my opinion, I feel like he should also keep his hover, but have it assigned to spin while jumping and have it only work for a few seconds, at least until he turns super. If he has a shield, he gains the shield ability instead. I'd also like to see his spindash converted into a peelout, effectively turning it properly into the V. Maximum Overdrive. Then if you really want to spin under tight spaces, you can just tap spin while moving to curl into a ball.

As for the overall "Identity" of SRB2, it can be saddening to look back on the nostalgia of the past and realize how much things are changing, but I also see it as an opportunity for growth. Fond memories of past are for celebrating, not being stuck in. There's nothing stopping mods like SRB2ThePast and Final Demo Zone as well as legacy characters from getting made that let us relive those older memories in newer versions of the game. This presents the opportunity for SRB2 to grow into something greater without having to leave it's past behind entirely. Sure, the physics getting updated eventually means even those old stages won't play quite how they used to anymore, but you can just play those on older builds of the game. If not the build attributed to them, then through mods on closer to up to date builds such as 2.1 or 2.2.

 

[Darknik]

I can understand that some prefer the old versions of srb2 but personally I find those versions very primitive in every posible way is that nobody remembers the bad positioning of enemies the problems with the engine even the soundtrack wasn't that good in mi opinion

maybe i dont like them because I have not been playing sonic robo blast 2 for so many years as others so I don't feel any nostalgia for those versions but I prefer version 2.2 over any other

 

[glaber]

If the Thok is removed, I can just toss it back in since I got a lua script to restore it.

 

[lnferno]

If the Thok is removed, I can just toss it back in since I got a lua script to restore it.

Even if you didn't, the Thok is literally one of the simplest things to recode anyways.

 

[Legendary Emerald]

I mean, would you rather the Thok or real momentum in the game?

The thok. SRB2 controls more precisely than every other 3D Sonic game I've played, and I wouldn't change anything about its Sonic at this point. I've been playing this game for the past 10 years and a drastic change to the way Sonic moves would kill all of my accumulated muscle memory. As other people have said, mods will always be able to even things back out, but chasing the allure of "accurate" Sonic physics doesn't seem worth it to me if the games loses its precision.

 

[time gear]

The thok. SRB2 controls more precisely than every other 3D Sonic game I've played, and I wouldn't change anything about its Sonic at this point. I've been playing this game for the past 10 years and a drastic change to the way Sonic moves would kill all of my accumulated muscle memory. As other people have said, mods will always be able to even things back out, but chasing the allure of "accurate" Sonic physics doesn't seem worth it to me if the games loses its precision.

While I understand the concern, it does feel slightly misplaced. Different doesn't automatically mean worse. It could very well be that the new physics actually increase the precision of the controls in a satisfying way. As far as I know, they are keeping backups of the old physics so they can roll back later if it doesn't work out, but they're also going to be taking criticism for the sake of improving the physics even further if they can.

They wouldn't go out of their way to intentionally make the game worse. The opposite is their intention. I'm actually quite excited to see what the new physics bring to the table myself. Classic Sonic was all about having the choice to either take it slow through the levels, or build up momentum and hold onto it for as long as possible, plowing through everything in your path with the speed that you earned. You could stick to the upper path to clear the levels faster, or explore the more dangerous and slower lower routes for hidden goodies and collectables. This is largely something that I have always felt is missing in SRB2, especially with it's largely uphill level design that favors more upwards mobile characters.

Momentum gets stifled uphill. That's not to say that there's not a time or place for uphill sections or even whole levels, but it should be the exception rather than the rule in Sonic. The physics should compliment a downhill playstyle in which speed can be earned and maintained by skilled enough players, but also precise enough that players choosing to take their time on the slower routes can do more precise platforming sections without worrying about missing their jumps or failing to hit an enemy.

 

[shayne]

Dude, I'm super nostalgic for the old versions of SRB2 myself. I actually keep an archive of my old 1.09.4 around with all the wads I had back then, in case I'm feeling like taking a trip down memory lane. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize that newer versions are just, objectively better.

I know how hard it can be to accept change. You get used to things the way they used to be, you have fond memories of them, you want those memories to last. But you need to accept that sometimes change is for the better. 2.2 may be replacing a lot of things you're familiar with, but that feeling of familiarity shouldn't be mistaken for quality.

 

[Legendary Emerald]

While I understand the concern, it does feel slightly misplaced. Different doesn't automatically mean worse. It could very well be that the new physics actually increase the precision of the controls in a satisfying way. As far as I know, they are keeping backups of the old physics so they can roll back later if it doesn't work out, but they're also going to be taking criticism for the sake of improving the physics even further if they can.

They wouldn't go out of their way to intentionally make the game worse. The opposite is their intention. I'm actually quite excited to see what the new physics bring to the table myself. Classic Sonic was all about having the choice to either take it slow through the levels, or build up momentum and hold onto it for as long as possible, plowing through everything in your path with the speed that you earned. You could stick to the upper path to clear the levels faster, or explore the more dangerous and slower lower routes for hidden goodies and collectables. This is largely something that I have always felt is missing in SRB2, especially with it's largely uphill level design that favors more upwards mobile characters.

Momentum gets stifled uphill. That's not to say that there's not a time or place for uphill sections or even whole levels, but it should be the exception rather than the rule in Sonic. The physics should compliment a downhill playstyle in which speed can be earned and maintained by skilled enough players, but also precise enough that players choosing to take their time on the slower routes can do more precise platforming sections without worrying about missing their jumps or failing to hit an enemy.

By your description of what Sonic physics and level design has to be, in order to properly take advantage of physics more like the Genesis games, every single level thus-far designed for the base game would need to be completely remade. This does not sound like a good use of time to me at all, and is about the worst-case scenario that could possibly come from a physics change.

SRB2 doesn’t need to play like a classic Sonic game, it just needs to be feature-complete. 2.2 is definitely the best state the game has ever been in, and to throw so much great work away would be a damn shame. Even if/when momentum is added in, the levels do not need to be completely remade to have top-tier and low-tier paths like a 2D game since we already have the full breadth of a 3D space to work within.

 

[Chezi]

By your description of what Sonic physics and level design has to be, then, in order to properly take advantage of physics more like the Genesis games, every single level thus-far designed for the base game would need to be completely remade. This does not sound like a good use of time to me at all.

That’s not necessarily true. They can slightly redesign parts of the levels to accommodate the physics changes like they have been doing for the past 20 years. Heck, some levels like Egg Rock Zone Act 2 ARE being completely remade from scratch