• Do not use Works in Progress as a way of avoiding the releases system! Works in Progress can be used for sharing early betas and for getting suggestions for improvement. Releases of finished content are not allowed in this forum! If you would like to submit a finished addon, click here for instructions on how to do so.

Kart Krew™'s exe mods

ShihoAJoke

Egg-Robo Builder
Thanks for casually admitting Kart Krew doesn't give a rat's ass about their entire playerbase :smile:
I didn't mean that they don't care the playerbase...

What I mean about them "don't matter what people wanted" is that they're building the game based on their vision of it and they really meant it. SRB2 Kart wasn't build for other people in the first place... In a way, isn't it the same for any mods of any game?

(Note : You'll be surprised if you found out this happened for KartZ (SRB2Kart's previous iterations) players have the same expression like this)
 
Last edited:

MobyKong

DO NOT ACQUIRE POSSESION OF A BOVINE ANIMAL
I didn't mean that they don't care the playerbase...

What I mean about them "don't matter what people wanted" is that they're building the game based on their vision of it and they really meant it. SRB2 Kart wasn't build for other people in the first place... In a way, isn't it the same for any mods of any game?

(Note : You'll be surprised if you found out this happened for KartZ (SRB2Kart's previous iterations) players have the same expression like this)
I remember them saying something about planning rings but didnt have the time for in V1, did the KartZ players see some stuff that was planned for V1 but didnt make it into V1 but will in V2 such as the rings?
 

Tatsuru

2.3 will have menus
Moderator
Sonic Team Junior
Judge
I don't see why anyone would be upset with a decision like this. The team wanting you to try the new version of the game they've been teasing and have spent the last few years working on in its unmodified state, in order for you to experience it the intended way before you get to shove every single mod up your ass, is a completely reasonable request and we are more than happy to enforce it.
 

Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Kart Krew™️
Judge
Hey, at very least I'm happy you enjoy v1 so much. Your aggressiveness and ridiculing is extremely unwelcome here though. Cut that shit out.

Thanks for casually admitting Kart Krew doesn't give a rat's ass about their entire playerbase :smile:

I know it may not be the answer you like, but it's a real and reasonable answer:

We are a bunch of hobbyist gamers creating exactly the kind of game we've wanted to play for years. If the changes 'krew makes don't seem like something you'll enjoy, that's unfortunate, but there's nothing we intend to do about it. There'd be a thousand different opinions we could compromise with if we wanted to -- or needed to from a marketing perspective -- but there's no incentive for us to do that. As long as we're finding that we're consistently having fun with our game, we're happy!

I know it's a hard shift to go from commercial game markets to fangame circles, but I have to ask that you do it anyways: The context is completely different and we are developing based *exclusively* to our own taste, and not trying to fill any market demand or niche. That's the misunderstanding you're getting caught up on.
 

Apollyon Woman

Homestuck Trash
Don't even get me started on Position. According to the Kart Krew themselves, the standard starting grid was replaced because it was, and I quote:

Excuse my french, but fucking what? The ENTIRE GODDAMN POINT of a starting grid is for it to be static. Every driver starts out in roughly the same spot so nobody gets too far ahead or too far behind when the race starts. Every kart racer in existence does it this way for this very reason. I don't think anyone on the entire planet has a problem with races starting like this outside of the Kart Krew echo chamber. It's a completely idiotic change that completely fails to understand what makes kart racers (and racing in general) so appealing, and will do nothing but make race starts take far longer than they need to and make lightweight characters even more obsolete than they already are. Absolutely fantastic.
Wait till he finds out Sonic Riders is a series that exists with its own position mechanic. :wow:
 

Twins'R'Okay

Mid-tier Pixel Artist
Hi, I'm also a longtime player of v1, as I've played v1 on and off since release.

I stopped playing it for quite a few reasons, but the main one is that: As I continued playing I felt like I was not making any real progress in any races. No matter what items I got, what place I was in, or even if I was *far* behind the rest of the race, It felt like I could not make any progress whatsoever, and I know I can't be the only one with this sentiment.

Before I start commenting on things, know this.

Seeing a game =/= Playing a game

You cannot determine how a game will *feel* from the way it looks, and this rings true for a *lot* of your arguments. Back in 2007, Brawl may have looked cool as shit but the moment a lot of people picked up the controller, they could tell something was off.

From what I can tell, the game is being tweaked behind the scenes every day, and nearly every mechanic in v2 will probably look a little different when we all get to play it.

If you end up not liking v2 when it releases, that's fine lmfao, there is no all-seeing authority that is telling any of us which games to like or don't like, and if you just want to stick to v1, then cool, good for you.

However, I am gonna say a few things.
The new character sprites do look good, but the issue is you now have 5 years worth of character mods that need to be ported over by the community, and I really doubt that a good majority of modders are just gonna sit down and say "Yeah, I'll go completely resprite every character I made over the span of 5 years that also need more new sprites made for each of them!". Same thing applies to maps, as well. People aren't going to be flocking to remake a whole mountain of maps to accommodate for the new gameplay changes. I won't even touch on the whole "mod embargo" junk because it's such a mindbogglingly misguided & moronic idea that I fail to understand how any sane developer could unironically tell themselves "Yes, this will be a healthy and good idea for this community!"
This is not as big of an issue as you're making it out to be.

For maps, yeah, you have to redo some things. Same thing for lua. It sucks, but, here's the thing. You cannot expect everything to stay the same modding-wise for every update. As a game updates, things change under the hood, for better or for worse, and for something as major as v2, this DEFINITELY rings true. It ringed true for SRB2, it ringed true for other moddable games like Skyrim or Minecraft, and it rings true here.

For sprites, this really isn't a big of a deal. The only way you'd have to redo everything is if A: You did everything on one layer (idiotic), B: You lost the original source file (bummer), or C: You're dissatisfied with the how the original sprite came out and want a do over (based). What I AM hoping tho, is that the new v2 template comes on multiple layers, so that you can just drag n' drop your sprites onto the new karts, and it will work in-game, just like that.
Lastly, I'll discuss how the community itself has handled all of this. It is absolutely impossible to have any discussion or concerns about V2's mechanics in the official discord server because every single dissenter is met with the same idiotic, childish drivel:

"iT's A nEw GamE"
"yOu HaVeN't PlAyEd It YeT, hOw Do YoU kNoW?"
"yOu WiLl LiKe It, JuSt WaIt!"

(and numerous other passive-aggressive statements in the vain of "NOOOOO MY RACE IS RUINED!!!")
This is a really really bad way to respond to counter-arguments. I'm trying to be respectful throughout my entire argument, but it's hard doing so when you drop statements like this.

And finally, calm down lol.
I get you're probably angry and concerned. There's a few things I'm concerned about in v2 as well, and some of them echo other things people have said. But I'm not putting down a final verdict until after I played the game and seen all it has to offer, as for what we know, what was revealed is probably only a fraction of what the final game will be like.
 

toaster

トースタちゃん
Kart Krew™️
perfectly good tracks getting trashed for no reason (Ancient Tomb? VOLCANIC VALLEY?)
People have already responded to the bulk of your post, so I won't add to that pile, but this line did stand out to me in particular as something that really reflects the disconnect a critic has from the actual production of the work.

To you, these maps are content. Fun bursts of interesting-looking environments on the harder end of the game's difficulty curve with a lot of attention to detail, so definitely memorable, but content. They exist as a backdrop for you to perform on, to play with your friends (or enemies) on, because it's ultimately a building block as part of a larger entertainment experience. The idea of subtracting anything that you enjoy, therefore, is a crime.

To us, these maps were almost singlehandedly architected by our friend Blitz-T. It's been almost two years since we last saw him, and he had a novel and idiosyncratic way of working where it was clear everything he did had a strong vision. There's a combination of his amazing work being very difficult to maintain for updated physics and mechanics (you should open Volcanic Valley in a map editor some time, especially if you're not a mapper) and some hope he'll come back to us. But even if he never touches a map again, we still miss him. (If you ever read this, man, please at least let us know how you're doing).

So no, nothing is ever for "no reason".
 

Benji

Member
I'll be real with you here, chief: I ain't interested in V2 anymore. Not after I saw the 3rd anniversary update, and certainly not after I saw all the other junk I've seen after that.

The reason SRB2K is popular, if you somehow didn't know, is because of 2 simple reasons. First, the game is basically a free Mario Kart game for the PC, and the simplicity of its mechanics & controls makes it easy for new players to just pick up the game & start playing. Second, the game has a huge library of mods: characters, maps, gamemodes, and all sorts of other crazy things that keeps the game fresh and keeps players coming back for more. It's an incredibly solid system, I'd even say it's addicting.

All of these great things are what kept me (and numerous other people) playing the game for 5 whole years, And when I saw the first V2 gifs/screenshots in 2019 or so I was totally down for it. The changes shown were all things the game sorely needed: rings & slipstreaming to buff the weaker & less viable light characters, actual single player content in the form of a Grand Prix mode, and even some fun bonuses like a few new items, characters, and maps.

Then the 3rd anniversary update dropped. And oh boy, was I disappointed.

The game had been changed, and sadly, it was for the worse. The tumble mechanics look excessively punishing for no goddamn reason whatsoever, hitlag seems to make every single item in the game more annoying & punishing, a weird new camera that would make anyone horribly seasick after 5 seconds, and Position, a completely idiotic and unnecessary Mario Party mini-game you have to play for god knows what reason before every goddamn race.

It only continues to get worse from here. A trick system that appears to be more of a nuisance than a mechanic, perfectly good tracks getting trashed for no reason (Ancient Tomb? VOLCANIC VALLEY?), HITLAG STACKING, and apparently some kind of "mod embargo" that will be enforced on release (What?!). Honestly, I'm beyond disappointed, and my friends who just recently started playing (and only play the game with me occasionally in a private server) all feel the same way. Not to mention the numerous other people I've seen in various different corners of the internet who are all voicing the exact same concerns. If new players and literal randos online are saying the same things an SRB2K veteran like myself are saying, that's really, really not a good sign for the future of this game.

As far as the new mechanics go, I'd like to discuss them each individually. The tumble mechanic, as I've stated, seems to be excessively punishing for no goddamn reason at all, and it being coupled with like 3 separate items makes it seem like it's going to be the most frustrating & awful game mechanic ever conceived. Getting hit by anything that puts you into tumble seems like it can potentially lock you into it for upwards of 10 seconds, which just seems like overkill. Not to mention that most of the tumble items (Invincibility & Grow specifically) will end up crowding the middle of the pack and make the game utter hell for anyone who isn't in 1st or last place.

Hitlag was a really, really stupid idea from the moment it was conceived. This is a kart racer, not a fighting game. Putting an incredibly jarring, second-long pause after getting smacked by pretty much any item imaginable is an absolutely idiotic idea, especially for a racing game where, generally, nobody wants the game to stop dead in its tracks. People want to keep moving without slowing down for anything. And stopping the game for well over a second just because you got hit by the SRB2K equivalent of a green shell (an extremely common item) is incredibly disorienting and utterly ruins the pacing of the game. I'd also like to mention that claiming that hitlag is "inspired by Kirby Air Ride" is very indicative of someone who hasn't actually played Air Ride for any more than 5 minutes. The game barely has such a mechanic, and when it does it's very short & unnoticeable (and certainly isn't on every single goddamn hit in the game).

I don't even really understand the trick system, honestly. Even after 2 whole videos demonstrating it I still can't make heads or tails of it. These tricks seem like an incredibly distracting QTE that actively punishes you if you fail it, which doesn't seem fair or even all that fun. Tricks in Mario Kart work because of their simplicity, you press a button on a ramp or a bouncy object, and you get a small animation of your character tricking and a small boost afterwards. Simple, well-communicated, and easy to understand. Even then, the old springs were fine, what the hell is the point of replacing them with this convoluted jank? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Don't even get me started on Position. According to the Kart Krew themselves, the standard starting grid was replaced because it was, and I quote:

Excuse my french, but fucking what? The ENTIRE GODDAMN POINT of a starting grid is for it to be static. Every driver starts out in roughly the same spot so nobody gets too far ahead or too far behind when the race starts. Every kart racer in existence does it this way for this very reason. I don't think anyone on the entire planet has a problem with races starting like this outside of the Kart Krew echo chamber. It's a completely idiotic change that completely fails to understand what makes kart racers (and racing in general) so appealing, and will do nothing but make race starts take far longer than they need to and make lightweight characters even more obsolete than they already are. Absolutely fantastic.

Next, I'll discuss the modding situation. Kart Krew has decided, in their infinite wisdom, to change all sorts of stuff related to modding. While some of these changes are good things, like the switch to UDMF for maps, I feel a lot of other changes with V2 are gonna screw up some things with modding, specifically with porting old mods.

The new character sprites do look good, but the issue is you now have 5 years worth of character mods that need to be ported over by the community, and I really doubt that a good majority of modders are just gonna sit down and say "Yeah, I'll go completely resprite every character I made over the span of 5 years that also need more new sprites made for each of them!". Same thing applies to maps, as well. People aren't going to be flocking to remake a whole mountain of maps to accommodate for the new gameplay changes. I won't even touch on the whole "mod embargo" junk because it's such a mindbogglingly misguided & moronic idea that I fail to understand how any sane developer could unironically tell themselves "Yes, this will be a healthy and good idea for this community!"

Lastly, I'll discuss how the community itself has handled all of this. It is absolutely impossible to have any discussion or concerns about V2's mechanics in the official discord server because every single dissenter is met with the same idiotic, childish drivel:

"iT's A nEw GamE"
"yOu HaVeN't PlAyEd It YeT, hOw Do YoU kNoW?"
"yOu WiLl LiKe It, JuSt WaIt!"

(and numerous other passive-aggressive statements in the vain of "NOOOOO MY RACE IS RUINED!!!")

If people don't like the changes, they don't like the changes. Don't force people to like them, don't mock them like petty schoolyard bullies, and certainly don't threaten them with a banhammer if they still don't like them. But hey, maybe it's my fault for expecting civil discussion to take place on discord in the first place, who knows. :wink:

I've really tried to be supportive of Kart Krew and V2 in general before all of this, but the more stupid changes I see, the more I've decided to just stick with V1. You had something really special here, and I'm concerned that all of the punishing & confusing mechanics that come with V2 will drive away players both new and old. The changes seem less concerned with improving the game, rather they're concerned with changing things for the sake of change and drawing in millions of more views for "epic kart compilation dude gets totally owned" videos on YouTube. You can scream about how "IT'S A NEW GAME!!!" until you're blue in the face, but that doesn't change the fact that nobody wanted a new game, people wanted an update to the old game that improves on it and adds a handful of fun new things. Again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Signed, a longtime SRB2K player.
I haven't read this in full but I feel as though I can see what they are talking about.

I'll say that at least they are innovating. I personally like these ideas but if people don't like them, they'll make mods that turn them off if they really don't like them. It's not that they are against them for creating bad ideas or anything. They are trying to innovate and making what they believe is the most Sonic-y racing game. I am personally just afraid that they won't be able to make everything they want a reality, so I'm suggesting they create a limit as to what they can add for V2 and add the rest in future updates. To me, they seem to be people who want to dream big and would rather make something the best on the first go. Even though making the best thing in one works <10% of the time, as long as we believe in them, they will be motivated and will make the game of their dream by doing the impossible. So Kart Krew, if you are reading this, I hope you will be able to make everything you want for everyone. Don't be disappointed we won't all like these ideas, including myself. And to the person I'm replying to, your opinions are valid as everyone else's if not more because of the amount of expression because you care about this game.

Bonus Opinion:
As much a Position sounds fun, I would rather play without it when playing online because what I think is half the fun is figuring out what my friends would try to do rather than hope to win something similar to chicken against randoms. That's just my opinion and why the only feature I believe is the most important are feature toggles so that we don't waste memory on mechanic disabling mods.
 

tabu

Member
i'm generally open to the changes in 2.0 despite being weirded out by a few of em, but i really don't understand the mod embargo. if all these design decisions are all well and good in 2.0 and skeptics just need to wait to try it out and see the light then what's the point of keeping players from playing online modded games for a while and forcing them to stick with vanilla? if these are indeed good decisions that genuinely make the game better then this is totally unnecessary. feels like just some petty way to force everyone to use the new mechanics regardless of how it screws over anyone who just wants to make or use a custom character or map online near launch who might totally love all the new mechanics. really just comes off as insecurity from the devs about the efficacy of their own design decisions. on-top of other weird decisions like disallowing players from disabling rings etc all remind me of the same kind of stubborn dev overreach we all got on mystic's case for. and this is coming from someone who likes and welcomes the ring mechanic. regardless of how i feel about the mechanic itself i think its a show of good faith giving your players the options to play the game how they want, and as easily as possible. especially with something that was already a precedent within the game, and especially with something as simple to add in as just a toggle to make an object not show up, and especially in a game that's supposed to be welcome to community modification. anyone who doesn't like certain mechanics being nixed (understandable) can just not use the servers that take them out. you can't say that's unfair when it's the same kind of behavior you expect from people who don't like the changes, and much more radically so ("just use v1 and never use the master server again bro"). this applies to the whole mod embargo idea in general. if you're concered at all about positive player reaction then this is in no way the way to go if you ask me. might even inadvertently convince some early adopters that mods have been disabled online outright in 2.0 which most certainly won't be good at all for its already shakey reputation within the community.
 
Last edited:

Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Kart Krew™️
Judge
i'm generally open to the changes in 2.0 despite being weirded out by a few of em, but i really don't understand the mod embargo. if all these design decisions are all well and good in 2.0 and skeptics just need to wait to try it out and see the light then what's the point of keeping players from playing online modded games for a while and forcing them to stick with vanilla? if these are indeed good decisions that genuinely make the game better then this is totally unnecessary. feels like just some petty way to force everyone to use the new mechanics regardless of how it screws over anyone who just wants to make or use a custom character or map online near launch who might totally love all the new mechanics. really just comes off as insecurity from the devs about the efficacy of their own design decisions. on-top of other weird decisions like disallowing players from disabling rings etc all remind me of the same kind of stubborn dev overreach we all got on mystic's case for. and this is coming from someone who likes and welcomes the ring mechanic. regardless of how i feel about the mechanic itself i think its a show of good faith giving your players the options to play the game how they want, and as easily as possible. especially with something that was already a precedent within the game, and especially with something as simple to add in as just a toggle to make an object not show up, and especially in a game that's supposed to be welcome to community modification. anyone who doesn't like certain mechanics being nixed (understandable) can just not use the servers that take them out. you can't say that's unfair when it's the same kind of behavior you expect from people who don't like the changes, and much more radically so ("just use v1 and never use the master server again bro"). this applies to the whole mod embargo idea in general. if you're concered at all about positive player reaction then this is in no way the way to go if you ask me. might even inadvertently convince some early adopters that mods have been disabled online outright in 2.0 which most certainly won't be good at all for its already shakey reputation within the community.
What is this mod embargo thing you're talking about? Or rather, where did you learn about it from? Because the two times kart devs ever referred to any such topic (that I am familiar with) that is not what it was about, so I'm not sure where you're getting these ideas from.

1652678313401.png

1652678335310.png


As an admin on this forum, I can confirm this all :V

Additionally: The reason we're not adding a toggle for rings is because rings are an important part of the game balance.

i think its a show of good faith giving your players the options to play the game how they want, and as easily as possible. especially with something that was already a precedent within the game

On the contrary, I don't think this is important at all. 'Krew is developing a specific game to be played a specific kind of way. In terms of accessibility options, I think it's important, though, that's the only area where I'd agree with you on that. People can make changes to the formula on their own time, you know?

I always have to reiterate this: We're not being paid for our work, we're designing a game for the fun of it alone (and it is pretty fun). We put in the effort and we fine-tune it pre-release and post-release via patches if necessary, just like we did with v1. So I'm not sure what you said about good faith makes any sense. Good faith for what?

I'm not trying to come off as hostile or anything here; I just want to challenge some of your assumptions. You seem to be making criticisms like we're trying to sell people a game, but that's not the case. When you mention precedent, that's the kind of thing that would matter for a commercial game when people were expecting a certain kind of thing and putting money down for it because they believed it to be a certain type of game. But we're not trying to sell anyone anything. :shitsfree:
 

tabu

Member
well as long as the mod embargo isn't happening, i'm good. just misinterpreted some discord screencaps and previous posts, i guess

i don't really agree that you aren't at all beholden to the community's desires just because the game isn't being sold though. these things aren't mutually exclusive. paid games go against the desires of their playerbase all the time and i feel like in this case community reaction is even more important since the game is entirely reliant on it. you can't just take the money and run from criticism is what i'm trying to say, like what many corporate devs do. like i said though, i'm personally fine with most design decisions made so far. the only ones i could see being significantly contentious are tumbling and position but we'll have to see. personally my problem with both is that they just seem to last too long.

a way to mitigate this i think, and something i've wanted to see in v1 as well is maybe just some kind of competitive mode that's pretty much like a multiplayer time attack. something that disables all items but single shoes and rings (assuming rings are going to be in 2.0 time attack). mario kart 7 had a similar multiplayer option and it was possibly my favorite way of playing it. just something for non-newbies that clears concerns about tumbling since it wouldn't be a factor in this mode and would also mitigate salt from players who often feel screwed over by offensive items. just an idea though.
 
Last edited:

Ace Dragon

Member
i don't really agree that you aren't at all beholden to the community's desires just because the game isn't being sold though. these things aren't mutually exclusive. paid games go against the desires of their playerbase all the time and i feel like in this case community reaction is even more important since the game is entirely reliant on it.
The dynamics are different because the only thing the user has as an investment was the time spent playing the game (which in turn is often done in a way where little to no money is spent). Like SRB2, this is a project made for fun with no investors involved (with the only costs being whatever is spent on web hosting), so applying pressure to deliver is not going to work like players think it will. The developers have the right to move on to a new project if they desire to do so.

In the case stated above, fostering a positive, productive discussion is even more important just from the game itself being FOSS. The community in this case can make or break the project, I would personally love to see the universal application of things like AI racers sometime in the future, but it won't happen if community behavior ends up causing devs. to walk away.

To note, I have not played the project yet, but I have been keeping track of it out of interest.
 

tabu

Member
i don't like the implication that just concern over potentially contentious design decisions is negative and unproductive. user input both positive and negative is a very important part of foss. and the idea of threatening to leave because not everyone likes your dev choices just sounds immature. it's their prerogative sure but if this is really the passion project they say it is then i don't see why criticism would be enough to do them in.
 

Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Kart Krew™️
Judge
well as long as the mod embargo isn't happening, i'm good. just misinterpreted some discord screencaps and previous posts, i guess

It's all good, I actually appreciate people who speak up and ask us these kinds of questions, like you.

i don't really agree that you aren't at all beholden to the community's desires just because the game isn't being sold though. these things aren't mutually exclusive. paid games go against the desires of their playerbase all the time and i feel like in this case community reaction is even more important since the game is entirely reliant on it.

Are you aware of how long SRB2Kart has existed? Your account was created in 2019, so I think you may genuinely lack a lot of context. In an effort to show some, I took a look through the initial srb2riders/kart release post -- that is, the first iteration of it I was even around for. Take a look (lol my old way of talking is so 2010)
1652784643240.png


Point is, SRB2Kart has been around for over a decade at this point and has had multiple releases across multiple enthusiastic developers (Chaos Zero 64, ZarroTsu, D00D64, current Kart Krew (which itself has a few "eras"). That's a lot of significant history that is often forgotten about in the face of v1's release in late 2018. So when you say "this game is reliant on the community reaction" ...in the face of its longevity FAR before it ever got any widespread attention, what does that even mean LOL

Theoretically speaking, if by some weird circumstance -- or perhaps just loss of interest -- the fanbase were to drop from tens of thousands back to how it was before, just a few diehards crossing over from the much smaller vanilla srb2 community, we would still be developing the game and having fun doing so.

Why? Because we develop to have fun, and though it's definitely even more fun to have such a thriving and generally supportive community (I really do appreciate everyone's enthusiasm) the fun of having the enormous community around specifically has never been a prerequisite to us getting stuff done in the past. So actually, I wouldn't say it's reliant on it very much at all, and I wonder where exactly you got that impression.

Also, I should say, most of the devs grew up in the vanilla community since we were kids and we love contributing to the small creative culture that Vanilla SRB2 fostered; this place is just like our family at this point; there's decades of familiarity and love between a lot of people in SRB2.

In reality, I think v2 is going to blow a lot of people who didn't think they'd like it's minds.

a way to mitigate this i think, and something i've wanted to see in v1 as well is maybe just some kind of competitive mode that's pretty much like a multiplayer time attack. something that disables all items but single shoes and rings (assuming rings are going to be in 2.0 time attack). mario kart 7 had a similar multiplayer option and it was possibly my favorite way of playing it. just something for non-newbies that clears concerns about tumbling since it wouldn't be a factor in this mode and would also mitigate salt from players who often feel screwed over by offensive items. just an idea though.

If it helps to hear it from me, v2 is already a MASSIVELY less salt-inducing game. There's a lot of anti-frustration that v1 just simply didn't have, which is why we're willing to go so dramatic with some stuff in v2.
 

tabu

Member
not sure what my account creation date proves. i've been playing srb2 since 2005 and this isn't even a kart based forum. though yeah you're only off by like a year or so later as to when i first discovered srb2k.

i wasn't using the idea of community criticism like a threat or anything, i highly doubt the potential issues people might have with v2 would be enough to cause some kind of mass exodus. i just don't think "roflmao its our project" is justification enough in of itself in the face of criticism. if once its released, a significant portion of the community has issues, you should listen. that sort of dialectic only ever makes things better especially when it comes to games, and if you ask me there's already enough 'we know better'-ism in modern mainstream game development (and the srb2 community itself must be all too familiar with this attitude) and foss gaming should be better than that. not sure where this idea of anyone leaving came from. i see that as an immature reaction from both the devs or the community if it did happen just over game mechanics. this is just about giving your community a voice, no matter how big or small it is.

also i just don't buy that srb2k's development has nothing to do with its community. looking back, progress was pretty slow back when it was just a niche personal project but now that it has a reputation we've seen exponentially more evolution in a relatively very short amount of time with v2. i really appreciate the devs for that but i very much doubt progress would've been made just the same if kart still had the same reputation it had in say 2012. i assume that progress has been helped along because of new devs who probably wouldn't be there at all if not for the game's reputation post-v1. not to mention how much the game's lastability has been bolstered by custom maps/characters etc made by modders who had also had no awareness of it pre-v1. like how many servers out there are running total vanilla? last time i checked, literally none of them. even the "vanilla" servers usually have shit like hornmod. and implying to the people who make that content as well as the players who find it necessary to keep enjoying themselves "lmaololrofl who cares what you want" just seems disrespectful. it's literally why people are still playing.
 
Last edited:

Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Kart Krew™️
Judge
not sure what my account creation date proves. i've been playing srb2 since 2005 and this isn't even a kart based forum. though yeah you're only off by like a year or so later as to when i first discovered srb2k.
I was giving you some context as to how long SRB2kart has existed since many are unaware of that. You seem a bit on edge if you're reading that as a "gotcha!"

not sure where this idea of anyone leaving came from. i see that as an immature reaction from both the devs or the community if it did happen just over game mechanics.
Ace Dragon was the one who brought up the idea a few posts above. I don't agree with it either, but I thought I'd address it in a hypothetical sense if it was brought up already.

i just don't think "roflmao its our project" is justification enough in of itself in the face of criticism. if once its released, a significant portion of the community has issues, you should listen. that sort of dialectic only ever makes things better especially when it comes to games, and if you ask me there's already enough 'we know better'-ism in modern mainstream game development (and the srb2 community itself must be all too familiar with this attitude) and foss gaming should be better than that.
Nope, "it's our project" is actually a completely suitable justification, and that's one you'll HAVE to come to terms with. You wouldn't walk into an art studio or a music studio and tell someone to make something different just because you're a fan, and you can't do that with dev teams or any other form of creative stuff, unless you're actually commissioning or contracting their art. You can surround it with whatever "roflmao" you want to make it look dumb, but it's an EXTREMELY rational position.

I'm very familiar with the fact that this upsets a lot of people, because the desire to sway the development of something you love in a direction you are inspired about is pretty fucking real and relatable. To be explicitly clear: There's no desire to completely cast off everyone's input; community input can help us refine what we want to make. But if you're mistaking yourself or anyone else in the community as deserving of an immutable say in how the game is developed, you're sorely mistaken. And that definitely is what you're saying at this point in time, that much is obvious.

(and the srb2 community itself must be all too familiar with this attitude)
The SRB2 community operates the same way. You can give a criticism and suggestion for someone's wad, and you can totally debate their rationality in not implementing it, but the point at which you start talking to the author as if they're obligated to take your advice when they don't want to for some reason, that's the point where you've gone clearly foul.

People have always gotten banned here in the past for badgering mod authors in such a way. I specifically remember a weirdo who was getting on people's cases to stop making their OCs and make official characters instead. That kind of behavior is super ass.

Any criticism we (kartkrew) receive will have to pass these three hurdles:
"Is it actually accurate, is this a real problem?"
"Would the criticism help us accomplish the ideas we're interested in?"
"Do any of us want to put the real work into that specific change?"

Otherwise, you'd have to find someone who takes requests.
 

tabu

Member
fair enough, i guess this is just semantics at this point. i'm not saying devs can't discriminate, just that they shouldn't shut out concerns from the community. though i'm not sure there's really a disagreement there. and i think you know who specifically i'm referring to when i talk about cases where the latter has happened in the community's past. i'll say to that i think makling any kind of concrete criticism of 2.0 right now is silly anyway since nothing we've seen is final. i think previous posts from people maybe being a bit too presumptuous right off the bat as well as past experiences of mine might have colored my impressions a bit
 

Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Kart Krew™️
Judge
Understandable :sadthumbsup:
I do know who you mean too LOL. Though my issues with Mystic and co. were not so much that they didn't listen to the community, but more that they strongarmed other devs who were putting objectively more work into the project than them all the time.

re: an open beta test, since it's relevant
It has advantages and disadvantages, but almost every advantage it has in a FOSS dev cycle like we have is better met by just getting stuff up to our own standards, publishing it when complete, and then maintaining it via a patch cycle as exploits/imbalances/oversights show themselves. Similar to the lawnmowing patches for v1, is a good example. Otherwise, you have to sort through too many "I don't like this [obviously incomplete] feature" weeds to get to any of the actual meat.
 
Last edited:
Maybe we should stop all this fighting... and get back to getting excited about v2...

...except it isn't v2 anymore.

It's now Dr. Robotnik's Ring Racers, a separate game from SRB2Kart.
FTGpnDsWAAEL01B

Also, if you don't like Ring Racers... just play SRB2Kart. Simple as that.
 

Who is viewing this thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Top