SpeedyHedgehog
MY RING!
Then have a homing thok. Which is basically SRB2's Homing Attack.
How do you feel about the thok being replaced?
- Thread starter Metal Snick Productions
- Start date
27cels
Member
But then you would have to make a new ability for the lighting shield
SpeedyHedgehog
MY RING!
Then make the lighting shield like the Fire abilite in S3. Where it gives you speed, but the speed decreases each time the button for speed is pressed.
You mean the Attraction shield. The Lightning shield is the one that grant's a double jump.
cheeseboi.
ches
but they have the fire shield in srb2 tho.
SpeedyHedgehog
MY RING!
That works differently. And I never said for the Lighting Shield to be a fire shield.
cheeseboi.
ches
i know you never said that, i just think it would be pointless for the attraction shield’s ability to be replaced. the ability’s based off of sonic 3d blast.
SpeedyHedgehog
MY RING!
Um, I didn't say it would be replaced.
HPR
HPR
Eh, if it were slower it’d be useless, I heard of an idea that it’s speed is based off of your current speed/momentum, but if it were like a tiny jolt forward, it wouldn’t be as useful
SpeedyHedgehog
MY RING!
RadicalKongsyom
This Is Happenin'!
Honestly, I see both side's opinions. The thok can help experienced players a lot, but overuse of it is punished. In my opinion, that is good design. On the other hand, I also feel it can water down the momentum, which is at the core of an ideal sonic game for me. My ideal replacement would be a simple tweak, that the current thok would occur if your speed was above a certain threshold, and a less powerful one would occur if you were slower, the latter being more suitable for platforming for newer players.
Last edited:
HenryStickminFan2
Creator of the LotM web series
yeah. I like the momentum thok mod and especially the xmomentum mod's star thok, so that's what i think 2.3 should use.
Post automatically merged:
no you wouldn't. it would still be useful since for other characters, and the lightning shield retains your momentum, allowing for you to chain fewer attacks over longer distances.
NormalGraham
Member
Dude removing the thok is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard and I'm embarrassed for everyone that it's been entertained as much as it has
27cels
Member
At this point I really don't care if they change It as long as It isn't a downgrade
LaurengetheOrange11
Live life, don't let it live you
I think the thok is perfectly fine and it should be here to stay. My first playthrough as Sonic and Tails was very enjoyable. It's not the thok's fault for having such a bad rep, it's the beginner players that choose Sonic Alone. I mean, I wasn't stupid enough to do that, but a lot of people were. Seriously.
The thok was a very fun experience to me. It was literally perfect for Sonic. It's like the Instashield - it seems useless at first, but once you get more skilled at the game and learn the art of the thok, then it's a powerful tool against bosses or Metal Sonic's race, or enemy chains.
The original devs introduced the thok because they knew what they were doing. Now we have new devs, and I mean no disrespect, but I don't think they see Sonic the way we all do. Apparently all the complaints they get are "Oh no, Sonic is too fast". Now they're making some weird, too-complicated combo of moves that no one can understand, while the thok was fun and simple.
Well, look, Sonic was never about going fast. His gameplay style was always about using speed as a reward. In Emerald Hill of Sonic 2, if you have enough speed on the loops you get shot into tunnels with rings and lives in them. You can skip the whole Mega Mack section in Chemical Plant with your speed. Point is, a player's first playthrough will never be enjoyable. It's only when you take the time to master your speed that you can truly enjoy Sonic.
The thok was perfect for Sonic because it did exactly this. The physics aren't up to par with the official games (no disrespect!) so thokking is a primary way to get speed. Thok over spikes in Black Core 1 and you go MILES ahead of Metal. Skip sections of level and platforming. The point is, if you learn how to control the thok, you can use it in so many rewarding ways.
I honestly feel like the new devs are forgetting what their game is supposed to be: A 3d Classic Sonic game. Classic games were never meant to be filled with breakfast sandwiches or complicated moves, they're sweet and simple. Earn speed through being good at the game. Get Chaos Emeralds. That's it. Now we're getting some weird mash-up of moves that let you climb up walls and jump on water and do shit. This will honestly just draw players AWAY.
The thok was a very fun experience to me. It was literally perfect for Sonic. It's like the Instashield - it seems useless at first, but once you get more skilled at the game and learn the art of the thok, then it's a powerful tool against bosses or Metal Sonic's race, or enemy chains.
The original devs introduced the thok because they knew what they were doing. Now we have new devs, and I mean no disrespect, but I don't think they see Sonic the way we all do. Apparently all the complaints they get are "Oh no, Sonic is too fast". Now they're making some weird, too-complicated combo of moves that no one can understand, while the thok was fun and simple.
Well, look, Sonic was never about going fast. His gameplay style was always about using speed as a reward. In Emerald Hill of Sonic 2, if you have enough speed on the loops you get shot into tunnels with rings and lives in them. You can skip the whole Mega Mack section in Chemical Plant with your speed. Point is, a player's first playthrough will never be enjoyable. It's only when you take the time to master your speed that you can truly enjoy Sonic.
The thok was perfect for Sonic because it did exactly this. The physics aren't up to par with the official games (no disrespect!) so thokking is a primary way to get speed. Thok over spikes in Black Core 1 and you go MILES ahead of Metal. Skip sections of level and platforming. The point is, if you learn how to control the thok, you can use it in so many rewarding ways.
I honestly feel like the new devs are forgetting what their game is supposed to be: A 3d Classic Sonic game. Classic games were never meant to be filled with breakfast sandwiches or complicated moves, they're sweet and simple. Earn speed through being good at the game. Get Chaos Emeralds. That's it. Now we're getting some weird mash-up of moves that let you climb up walls and jump on water and do shit. This will honestly just draw players AWAY.
Madotsuki
Member
I think games don't exist in a vacuum, and it should be considered that this is a game with literal decades of complex history behind it. It's both objectively true that the thok and people's natural tendency to pick sonic first cause a core issue and I do think the fact that the game's pre unlock roster consists of the hardest characters in the game and two characters who's solution to making it easier is "just fly lol" instead of more balanced playstyles that encourage actually engaging with the level design is a genuinely big issue with the game. Yet it's been so long and that leaves a large portion of the community (including me) that has grown attached to the thok and how deceptively fun it can be to use.
I checked down this thread to see any reasoning behind not just adding an extra unlockable character (I'd say Mighty, he's more often than not used as the second sonic in games anyway) that allows for the classic playstyle in modern srb2 that new players cannot stumble into and the main response is the slippery slope argument, alongside the general "2.2 can exist seperately from 2.3" Which i dunno man, I think sonic being swapped out for a whole new moveset is a justification to keep a playstyle with a provable fanbase intact and I think it's fine to want to thok around in the new game unless it can be proven that thokking under the new systems and level designs becomes a lot lamer (Has that angle been confirmed by those talking about the next patch? Difficulty usually overtakes everything else)
I think there was a new physics demo that had a miserable thok but using a proof of concept demo as evidence of anything is pointless especially if the thok was not prioritised under the idea it was going away. Thokking would also be added likely day 1 or 2 as the first real mod I assume but also I feel that can easily have the same slippery slope argument used against a Thok Character used against it too, why bother making new updates if fans can just make addons that serve the same functions?
If anything I hope a second starter character that doesn't have the ability to fly over everything happens. That's another angle that I feel is important, tails and knuckles don't make the game easier in a terribly fun way for new players.
I also kinda really liked the idea of Sonic spindashing up walls as an alternative playstyle, shame that apparently got canned due to backlash that's a genuinely inspired as hell idea for a weak vertical option
I checked down this thread to see any reasoning behind not just adding an extra unlockable character (I'd say Mighty, he's more often than not used as the second sonic in games anyway) that allows for the classic playstyle in modern srb2 that new players cannot stumble into and the main response is the slippery slope argument, alongside the general "2.2 can exist seperately from 2.3" Which i dunno man, I think sonic being swapped out for a whole new moveset is a justification to keep a playstyle with a provable fanbase intact and I think it's fine to want to thok around in the new game unless it can be proven that thokking under the new systems and level designs becomes a lot lamer (Has that angle been confirmed by those talking about the next patch? Difficulty usually overtakes everything else)
I think there was a new physics demo that had a miserable thok but using a proof of concept demo as evidence of anything is pointless especially if the thok was not prioritised under the idea it was going away. Thokking would also be added likely day 1 or 2 as the first real mod I assume but also I feel that can easily have the same slippery slope argument used against a Thok Character used against it too, why bother making new updates if fans can just make addons that serve the same functions?
If anything I hope a second starter character that doesn't have the ability to fly over everything happens. That's another angle that I feel is important, tails and knuckles don't make the game easier in a terribly fun way for new players.
I also kinda really liked the idea of Sonic spindashing up walls as an alternative playstyle, shame that apparently got canned due to backlash that's a genuinely inspired as hell idea for a weak vertical option
Doxy the fox
working on my own character currently...
I kinda agree with most of this, and also about that last part I The spindashing up on walls i think could be cool, like if it were a one time use before you land back on the ground, or only let you gk up a lil bit sorta like a double jump, or even if they were to add the drop dash to sonic you can use that next to a wall to get up, tho even if i think I would enjoy it as an additional i think it would also just make sonic too similar to knuckles since knuckles is mainly designed off vertical platforming when sonic is more horizontal focused, which yeah knuckles cna stick to walls and glide unlike sonic but still i can kinda undertand why it was cut, especially since the game is going more for a more accurate classic sonic inspired physics with loops, like imagine if you can just up to a loop in any classic sonic game and instead of trying to run on 8t you just jump to the edge and you just skip over it like it was nothing, i don't really think it be that great in that kund of context, maybe in current srb2 but...yeah. ik I'vetalked here before already and I'veamready shared my thoughtson the thok n all and i might have already said this before but i just kinda wanna speak my current mind on this whole thing
*GOOFYRAT!*
Just some random goofy rat looking for cheese.
I don't really care about this change, lmao. I've had to beat the game so many times it's not even funny anymore, so I'm probably gonna keep my 2.2, and get a 100% 2.3 save file, lmao. You couldn't PAY me to do that shit again.
Post automatically merged:
THIS is true. This practically explains my whole argument. THANK you, Laurenge.
LaurengetheOrange11
Live life, don't let it live you
No prob, just doing my job as a true Sonic Fan :)
Anyway, I'm not hating on the new devs or anything. I could never do what they do and I completely understand their desire to make SRB2 enjoyed by everyone who picks up the game. But they have to understand that beginners will obviously dislike the thok because they're new to the game and they don't know how the thok works. The thok encourages new players to get good at the game and play it all the way through. As they go along, the player will learn the physics of the game and how they can use the thok to skip parts of the level and get record time against bosses.
If we go along with the breakfast sandwich/power spin/whatever the hell they're calling it, the player will be overwhelmed by all of it. They won't be encouraged to understand the game and get better at it, because they know that they can just mash a button on some surface and the game will play itself. They won't get to experience the feeling of exhilaration that you get when you realize that you can skip a part of level that you never knew you could, when you realize you can use the thok to create your own ideal experience of SRB2. When you get so much better at levels and truly master the game.
So I implore the new devs to not remove the thok, or at least make it an option in the options section. Because it's on the player to choose Tails or Knuckles if they're a beginner. Lots of people will probably go with Tails or Knuckles anyways, and why shouldn't they? Tails and Knuckles are the easier, and "better" ways to play the game, after all. So why does everyone choose Sonic instead?
Because they want a challenge. After they've gone through the game with the easier characters, they want to experiment with Sonic because now, they know the game, and they're ready to beat the game without flying over the ropes in ACZ. They're ready to use their momentum to go through the level and get to know the game. Challenge is a character staple of Sonic himself. If we remove that challenge, then we're left with a character that can just run up the walls and skip the entire underwater DSZ section and have literally the exact same experience as Tails and Knuckles.
If a beginner chooses Sonic and hates the thok, that's because they're not ready for a challenge, and they should play the game with another character first (or with Tails to help). After that they can tackle Sonic's gameplay with satisfaction. Look, I may be rambling, but if we remove the thok, we remove SO many layers of SRB2.
TLDR; don't remove the thok. Or at least have it as an option???
