[Reusable] Flux Satellite Zone (Generations Remake)

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Gaga Hax

Emotionally Unstable
OK.
I played both versions of the level and here are my complaints:

1. The disign:
It hurts my eyes. I mean, yes, those are some nice textures. But come on I've never seen anybody to place them like that. I'm not talking about the entire level but about most of it's parts. Like when there are holes in the floor (classic) I understand the it's for warning reasons, but still. And that horid black wall that shoots flames (modern).
And the boss. I liked the idea of running. I actually had it once myself. But the steel texture you chose just doesn't fit here. You could actally use some better texture.

2.The Glitches:
What can I say? There are TONS of them! First of all the texture glitches.
Nothing more to say about it. Second the Gimmiks are ALL glitchy. The whole level is glitched as hell. And that non-solid glass with lava falling at the beginning (mentioned above).

3. The Unplayableness (Is that even a word?):
I'm not talking about glitches right now. What I'm talking about is the stupidity of sector and fof placement. I mean, come on, jumping on platforms that are strangely placed, that are moving up and down and with the gravity fliped. WHAT THE HELL?!
Isn't fliped gravity hard to control? Well it is for me. But with such platforms it is almost impossible. There are a lot more exaples of what I'm talking about right now, but moving on.

4. The zoom tubes:
I didn't like this idea at all. I understand that it is there for trasportation reasons, but you could make it look better. Because now it just doesn't follow ANY laws of physics.
Plus they are also glitchy.

5. The boss fight:
First of all it's too fast (the floor) if you're tails (perhaps Knux too), you have almost no chance to keep up. Also eggman sometimes moves out of the range of hit (maybe you could use block eneies flag). Plus the Brak Eggman missles are just out of place.


This level seems almost unplayable.
1.5/10
 
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742mph

My work is never done yet
OK.
I played both versions of the level and here are my complaints:

1. The disign:
It hurts my eyes. I mean, yes, those are some nice textures. But come on I've never seen anybody to place them like that. I'm not talking about the entire level but about most of it's parts. Like when there are holes in the floor (classic) I understand the it's for warning reasons, but still. And that horid black wall that shoots flames (modern).
And the boss. I liked the idea of running. I actually had it once myself. But the steel texture you chose just doesn't fit here. You could actally use some better texture.

2.The Glitches:
What can I say? There are TONS of them! First of all the texture glitches.
Nothing more to say about it. Second the Gimmiks are ALL glitchy. The whole level is glitched as hell. And that non-solid glass with lava falling at the beginning (mentioned above).

3. The Unplayableness (Is that even a word?):
I'm not talking about glitches right now. What I'm talking about is the stupidity of sector and fof placement. I mean, come on, jumping on platforms that are strangely placed, that are moving up and down and with the gravity fliped. WHAT THE HELL?!
Isn't fliped gravity hard to control? Well it is for me. But with such platforms it is almost impossible. There are a lot more exaples of what I'm talking about right now, but moving on.

4. The zoom tubes:
I didn't like this idea at all. I understand that it is there for trasportation reasons, but you could make it look better. Because now it just doesn't follow ANY laws of physics.
Plus they are also glitchy.

5. The boss fight:
First of all it's too fast (the floor) if you're tails (perhaps Knux too), you have almost no chance to keep up. Also eggman sometimes moves out of the range of hit (maybe you could use block eneies flag). Plus the Brak Eggman missles are just out of place.


This level seems almost unplayable.
1.5/10

Would you mind giving examples of these glitches? I can't fix them if I don't know what they are. Also, why do you have a problem with reversed-gravity platforming? I don't see what's so hard to control about it.
 

Gaga Hax

Emotionally Unstable
Would you mind giving examples of these glitches? I can't fix them if I don't know what they are. Also, why do you have a problem with reversed-gravity platforming? I don't see what's so hard to control about it.

I can't remeber them all but here are some:
The zoom tube after the room with maces won't work if you run/spin too fast. You go right trough it and die.
The boss sometimes fires missles at itself.
And many grafical glitches that i believe can't be fixed.
Also yes, I have problems with the reversed platforming. I wouldn't have had to complaint, but the camera acts like a killer here. I can barely even see whats in front of me. And then when I (FINALLLY) get to last platform a graffical glitch apeares scares the s... err... scares me and I die.
Also I don't like how the checkpoint after the room with holes in the floor (classic) is placed. Every time i respawn there the pop-up turret pops-up and kills me if I act too slow.
 

742mph

My work is never done yet
I'll have to fix those things. Thanks for your feedback. And I'm sorry, but I won't remove the reversed-gravity platforming, it's part of the challenge. I know about the Hall of Mirrors glitch when the platforms reach the bottom of their path, but I'm afraid it can't be fixed.

EDIT: New version with a few bugfixes.
 
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Bbop800

BboP
Read his post again. Pretty much everything you complained about isn't considered a "bug".
The lag itself clearly isn't his fault.
 

Larz T

Bool Man Larry
Judge
Try this, sprite your own Metal Sonic and/or sprite your own Mecha Sonic boss. Plus I am expecting this level in the game to be this hard?

EDIT: Plus during the Mecha Sonic mini boss, I was still in 3d mode when fighting him so fix this in the next update.
 
Try this, sprite your own Metal Sonic and/or sprite your own Mecha Sonic boss. Plus I am expecting this level in the game to be this hard?

EDIT: Plus during the Mecha Sonic mini boss, I was still in 3d mode when fighting him so fix this in the next update.

I'm just saying they look wierd, They look like bosses from Sonic X-treme.
 

D00D64

Probably Responsible
So after seeing this level has gotten people in a fuss over everything, I finally decided to play it. I should stop doing that.

The first thing to strike me as bad was Modern Sonic. Why is he faster than the current Sonic? I dunno, because all it does is make him control like a lead weight attached to a rocket stuck in a block of ice. It acceleration issues are just as equally met by its deacceleration issues, so you go from a standstill to topspeed in bizarre bursts, constantly having to stop yourself before you go out of control even MORE. And why does he look EXACTLY the same as SRB2 Sonic?

I just ended up stopping to load up my own custom wad that does homing just to see if you took advantage of homing (spoilers: you didn't). Not like it matters, since there is very little room to stretch that unnecessary excess speed, and the homing attack is not used much at all; there is no real reason to use it. Ever. Most of the places the homing attack can reach, so can thok.

...Or so i thought, untill it was revealed that the only way to go to the other side of the stage is to play as a character with thok. As in, anyone. Even characters like Senku, who use wall jump but TECHNICALLY thok. You had to pick the laziest way to separate characters. Not that it matters, given how terrible both routes are, so lets discuss that!

First up is that EVERYTHING IS VISABLE. Everything. No thok barriers or anything. All those sprites, all those fofs, and all that other shit is on screen at once, chugging the game down to a crawl if you look at it a certain way. Its also incredibly ugly, as it looks like you just strung some platforms together, put up some glass, and called it a day.

Another issues is that its super linear. There are invisible walls EVERYWHERE, there are no real hidden secrets to find, and aside from the start (which is decided by character choice) and all of two branches that I can remember, there is just one straight line of a path, constantly railroaded to and fro by obnoxious zoom tubes. Its a pretty accurate representation of Sonic games today, I'll give it that. *Rimshot*

There are no unique gimmicks to this map, and all gimmicks are done poorly. The fire conveyor belt, for whatever reason, is one you're stuck in, and I must point out there is a reason the fan room is being taken out of ERZ2. You have little control, but that doesn't matter much given how slow this is. I can elaborate on other gimmicks, but they're all poorly copypasted from far better stages, oftentimes done better. Also, this may not fall under gimmicks, but why does Spinner not animate?

But the most amusing part of this whole thing are those grotesque Eggman reskins you used as midbosses. For Metal Sonic, its like you deliberately chose the worst Metal Sonic Advance sprite you could find, and neither him nor Mecha Sonic do ANYTHING different from Eggman, except a slightly different projectile. 2D mode also makes these guys pathetically easy, moreso than the egg Mobile already is. And if this wasn't dumb enough, you end up putting the Egg Mobile in anyway! The constant side-scrolling ala Sonic Advance 2 didn't make the battle much harder at all.

All in all, this wad is terrible. Completely. Not a single redeeming thing. The characters are only different because they're railroaded to other parts, one character is horrendous to control anyway, the stage is ugly and laggy, the gimmicks are poor, and the midbosses are laughably horrendous. I'd start fresh, think really hard about what I and others have done, and don't think much about this again afterwords. Unless if its about how poor it is.

EDIT: Oh, and there's no way in hell something like this can support race with your lazy character split thing. Don't even kid yourself.

edit2: also why is the fanon wiki still your image host we have imgur
 
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742mph

My work is never done yet
*insert unecessary complaining here*

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what SpiritCrusher accurately decided to call "destructive criticism." It's not helpful at all.

Try this, sprite your own Metal Sonic and/or sprite your own Mecha Sonic boss. Plus I am expecting this level in the game to be this hard?

EDIT: Plus during the Mecha Sonic mini boss, I was still in 3d mode when fighting him so fix this in the next update.

How exactly did this happen? I would appreciate it if you could give me a little more info, I've played that boss many times and it's never happened to me.

Also, new update with hopefully less lag.
 
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D00D64

Probably Responsible
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what SpiritCrusher accurately decided to call "destructive criticism." It's not helpful at all.

I described it as destructive criticism. and you know what? There's no way I can tell you to make your level better, other than this:

- Linearity is dull when poorly executed. Breaking the level into two halves doesent change linearity. There are no different paths or powerups or anything otuside of the main path. The only time there is anything not on a "main" path are useless Spinner placements you can easily spindash+jump through anyway. I make linear levels too, but I at least stick powerups and such slightly off the track and so-on. Linear levels can be fun, but even obstacle course type linearity needs some secrets to hunt out. The most I found was a single Attraction shield I took several hits to get to and immedietly lost because the TOP of the wall it was behind also did damage.

- The character differences mean nothing other than a trigger push. Instead of making the level play different depending on character or making each sonic have their own level, you decided to stick both their levels in the same map and just separate them with a switch. This is not real character differentiation. This is fake, and merging them both in a single map just makes the map more of a mess because you gotta stick both in there. You need to actually make the level play different based on their ABILITIES, not just "oh, you go that way, and YOU go THIS way" splitting.

- The characters themselves are pretty poor too. Default Sonic is far too fast for 2D mode, causing me to constantly blindly run into things I couldn't see. I even ended up skipping a checkpoint before the crushers because of his speed. "Modern", as I described last post, goes way too fast and has odd acceleration, meaning I gotta repeatedly stop myself before continuing. Both of their speeds seriously need to tone down (as does Default Sonic's thok). And both Chrispy and Dr. Pepper dont mind who uses their sprites, so you could easily use their sprites for "Modern" Sonic.

- The map is a mess of locations loosely connected with zoom tubes. Your level is literally just a bunch of indescribable "things" invisibly attached. It doesent feel like a place, it just feels like a trap. I have no sense of progression either. Its mostly just bullshit Zoom tubes. they autopilot the player and more often than not are boring to sit through. Its usually a sign of lazy mapping. You need these pieces to actually connect together and form an actual place, not just some... random assortment of floating rooms.

- The level is hideous and laggy. The can easily be fixed by not making every wall a transparent FOF. The former... I honestly don't know how to help you there, but take a good look at places like Eggrock. Notice how they're mostly indoors and have walls and have setpieces and DONT try to show the entire level at one time.

- The bosses are all reskins of the Egg Mobile. The Egg Mobile is boring enough. We don't need 3 MORE of them, and we dont need them using ugly sprites either. when you think of a boss, look how to set that boss apart from other bosses. Even just changing a few mechanics of the Egg Mobile would be better than a blatant copypaste. But I wouldn't even start SOCs with bosses. Try something simple first, like... well, actually animating that Spinner for one.

These are just from what I can remember. I'll see about playing the level again to find any more flaws.
 
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742mph

My work is never done yet
First of all, I know how to animate things. I just don't have the avalible sprites.

Second of all, why do you have such a problem with having the two courses in the same map? The level is based on Sonic Generations, and this kind of gameplay is what it's based off of, so it'll have that gameplay too. Besides, if I split it up into two seperate maps, you'd complain about it being repetitive. Don't try to deny it, I know you would.

Also, why do you exaggerate things so much? It's not going to convey the information better, it just makes you sound like a jerk.

In addition, one thing I can never seem to get across to you is that I don't give up just because some random person I don't actually know tells me to. Face it: I never trash something that I think has promise, and this level definitely does. You, sir, are no help in giving me advice, and I honestly can't tell whether you're trying to or not, but I doubt it. Also, you're contradicting yourself a lot. You tell me all these things that you want me to change and make it sound like I should modify the level, but then you tell me to trash it.

One thing that would really help is if you told me more things that you DO want, as opposed to giving me a long list of things you DON'T want. The trial-and-error approach really won't work here, especially when there are so many options. Telling me what I'm doing wrong doesn't help me unless it's paired with suggestions on what counts as doing it right.

Finally, the transparent FOFs aren't going away, at least not completely. They're part of the theme of this level, and if I get rid of them, the level will be even more ugly than before. Getting rid of them would change the entire theme of the map, and like I said before, that's really not an option here, as is trashing it.
 

D00D64

Probably Responsible
First of all, I know how to animate things. I just don't have the avalible sprites.

Spinner was in Sonic Advance 3. Though more dated, I'd rather have that than an allegedly better looking static sprite.


Second of all, why do you have such a problem with having the two courses in the same map? The level is based on Sonic Generations, and this kind of gameplay is what it's based off of, so it'll have that gameplay too. Besides, if I split it up into two seperate maps, you'd complain about it being repetitive. Don't try to deny it, I know you would.

Its because you're forcing yourself to build the level with two different playstyles in mind, but on two different paths. Its pointless. Either give yourself more flexibility by having two separate levels, or have both characters go throughout he same path, with a few alternate paths that take advantage of their abilities and the like.

Also, why do you exaggerate things so much? It's not going to convey the information better, it just makes you sound like a jerk.

I have not exaggerated.

In addition, one thing I can never seem to get across to you is that I don't give up just because some random person I don't actually know tells me to. Face it: I never trash something that I think has promise, and this level definitely does. You, sir, are no help in giving me advice, and I honestly can't tell whether you're trying to or not, but I doubt it. Also, you're contradicting yourself a lot. You tell me all these things that you want me to change and make it sound like I should modify the level, but then you tell me to trash it.

I'm telling you the flaws and how to fix them because that's what you APPARENTLY wanted. Something constructive. Even though I still think the level would be best canned and start anew with a fresh new mindset built for the idea in mind and mistakes learned from the old one.

One thing that would really help is if you told me more things that you DO want, as opposed to giving me a long list of things you DON'T want. The trial-and-error approach really won't work here, especially when there are so many options. Telling me what I'm doing wrong doesn't help me unless it's paired with suggestions on what counts as doing it right.

I have, at least in the second post. I listed the issues and put some suggestions.

Finally, the transparent FOFs aren't going away, at least not completely. They're part of the theme of this level, and if I get rid of them, the level will be even more ugly than before. Getting rid of them would change the entire theme of the map, and like I said before, that's really not an option here, as is trashing it.

The big issue here is that "Planes of Glass in Space" is a pretty lousy theme. Its literally just hallways. Nothing but hallways. No theme of any description. If you're going for space, Eggrock pulls this off well, as it is basically a space station hastefully jammed into a rock, but it rarely feels claustrophobic or tedious or boring or ugly or anything like that. Your map does. As far as I'm concerned, your map has no real theme whatsoever.
 

742mph

My work is never done yet
One thing is that I'm not going to base my level off of Egg Rock. I don't know about you, but it seems to me that Egg Rock isn't a very good level, aside from gameplay. The textures are all over the place and the visuals are just strange most of the time. Plus, being outside some of the time and inside at other times is part of what makes my level unique, and to trash the outside portions would be like getting rid of the lava in Red Volcano.

Also, I just don't understand why little things like the method of path splitting bother you so much. It's almost like you're trying to find flaws. Try to play the level so that your main goal is to complete the level like most players, not to examine everything you see for even one mistake. Is it really that bad if you play it like that?

(Also, there are path splits even within the Classic/Modern Sonic paths, two of them per path in fact. There is also quite a big secret hidden in Modern Sonic's path, you just haven't found it yet. Here's a hint: Try looking for discolored sections of the floor.)
 

D00D64

Probably Responsible
One thing is that I'm not going to base my level off of Egg Rock. I don't know about you, but it seems to me that Egg Rock isn't a very good level, aside from gameplay. The textures are all over the place and the visuals are just strange most of the time. Plus, being outside some of the time and inside at other times is part of what makes my level unique, and to trash the outside portions would be like getting rid of the lava in Red Volcano.

But you're outside and in Eggrock all the time, and frankly, I still have no idea what your level's theme is. I still chalk it up as Window Planes in Space.

Also, I just don't understand why little things like the method of path splitting bother you so much. It's almost like you're trying to find flaws. Try to play the level so that your main goal is to complete the level like most players, not to examine everything you see for even one mistake. Is it really that bad if you play it like that?

The problem is that the splits HAVE NO POINT. Its just more of a pain in the ass for you to make because you gotta stick both in the same level. The question is, why ARNT these their own separate levels? The space used for the other character's path could have been put towards scenery or more open areas, or some walls to block out all the lag. Hell, just not HAVING the other character's path would severely cut down lag. Its not like you're trying to cram both for the OLDC or something (not that I recommend doing that).

(Also, there are path splits even within the Classic/Modern Sonic paths, two of them per path in fact. There is also quite a big secret hidden in Modern Sonic's path, you just haven't found it yet. Here's a hint: Try looking for discolored sections of the floor.)

I found a few paths, but I dont really see much of a reason to go there; usually, an alternative path is harder but shorter or has some kind of thing for you to get. Your paths seem to do neither, from what I can recall. Sure, its alternative, 1+ point for you, but its still not much. I also did find that secret and... Well, its another Eggman reskin. Not much to say there.
 
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742mph

My work is never done yet
*sigh* I'm getting tired of arguing about this. I just with I had a more general idea of what I'm actually supposed to do when making a level, not just what I shouldn't do.
 

Fawfulfan

The Tortured Planet guy
What you're supposed to do in a level is something that you have to learn over time. For now, you should just take note of what people DON'T like about this level so you can avoid making repeat mistakes in the future. There's an old saying in the video game industry that your first dozen games are going to be crap. That's what often happens in level design, too.

I hope you do realize that not everything you have done here is terrible...and indeed, you have made good progress as a designer. For one thing, you're no longer making those lazy-ass mods that are just a hodgepodge of Sonic recolors and mass texture replacements (even though Modern Sonic and the midbosses were lame). For another, you took the time to make an original level. It may suck, but it's perfectly reasonable for your first level to suck. My first level sucked ten times worse than this.

That said, I agree with pretty much everything D00D has said to you, and I think you're only hurting yourself by shoving away his criticism. If you just took it to heart, I guarantee it'd be useful to you.
 

HisuiChan

Known as VivianChan In game
Well I havent played the level yet but I just want to know, why did you use a cheap Metal Sonic advance sprite, it doesnt fit in with Srb2 at all 0.0', and reading the comments on your level, I agree with what D00D said just that he said it too harsh ^-^' Ill write more once I play the level.
 

MascaraSnake

Developer
Sonic Team Junior
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what SpiritCrusher accurately decided to call "destructive criticism." It's not helpful at all.
Yup, I did. But mind you, "destructive criticism" is very helpful. He's telling you what's wrong with the level and why it's wrong, and frankly, that's all you need to improve the level.

Look, you either take his criticism or you don't. I don't see what's wrong with what he's saying. He's not exaggerating, it definitely is helpful, and you better be grateful that he dissects the map to find every single flaw, because that way you know what you have to fix. If you're gonna ignore his valid criticism because of the way he presented it, you're just hurting yourself.

And I'm gonna be blunt: This level doesn't have promise. The few parts that aren't completely awful are best extracted and put into a new map. I'm not saying that you need to do that, but that's what I'd recommend.
 
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