Amanda The Hedgehog

[Shu]

Ieh, Dark Warrior, perhaps it is true that "recolor" does mean something, but does "quit making this now or I will rant some more" mean anything that helps the production of the wad. Criticism
involves accepting that something is actually possible under the basic idea. You seem to expect every new WADder that comes along to be an expert on spiriting, and be able to create a good looking character with out editing SSN's sprites.

Good criticism also involves not being a total jerk, no matter how crappy the subject (no, I don't think this is crappy for a first try). And if you argue with that last statement, you're arguing with my music appreciation book.*shot*

-*insert own what ever*,
Shu teh Porcupine


P.S.
I recall the topic about your Rouge wad being locked because it was a "to small for high res, yet to large not to", "pillow shaded" sprite. And I never said you where an idiot or any thing else related to your awesome intelligence (not sarcasm). And lemon is an 80's insult meaning a sour person a.k.a. a jerk.

 

[Princess Plushima]

But Shu, you seem to fail to seem the difference between constructive critisism, and praising every piece of crap that comes along. Why should you call something good, when it's obviously either horrid, or required barely any effort.

I think we can all say, that nearly every great thing ever made in SRB2, required quite a bit of work.

 

[Shu]

You just ignored every thing I just said. I didn't say praise it. I just said don't go "Stop this now you stupid n00b or die."

 

[Princess Plushima]

I'd like you to quote anyone saying that in this topic. I don't recall ever saying anything of that genre, I simply pointed out that adding on hair and fancy shoes to Sonic, does not a WAD make.

 

[Shu]

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, you did the right thing. There was absolutely no hope for this wad.

Please follow this. Seriously, this is yet another, repetitive, unorignal recolor. Please, please discontinue it.

 

[Zeshiro]

This topic is trailing off miserably. Point being: add constructive criticism, or don't add any at all. Placing meaningless tips before and/or after an insult isn't exactly constructive. When you do that, you're really only teaching people you're schmuck a who's greatest talent is pointing out obvious things. And you shouldn't misuse words just to make your argument sound more valid. It's tacky. (Note: You can be constructive without being critical. It's not necessary.)

Back on topic, thought. I have no problem with your character, nor am I suggesting that you change her. But, you could just use a few methods to change general things about your character; so even if you were still to edit the Sonic sprites for your wad, the character could still be somewhat original outside of that. By the time you finish your first wad, you may not have even changed a thing about her. But,

If you did change it, here's how you did it.

First of all, you could give your character more of a visible personality; so you can get a basic idea of a the character's personality just by appearance. You may want to try to here for basic ideas on a color scheme, rather than randomly drawing together colors. (Not saying that that's what you did, just being general.)

Might also want to consider clothing. Though sometimes the simplest costumes work, you may want to steer away from something you yourself might actually wear. But try not to overdo it as well (You don't need to make your character look like they're from a Final Fantasy game or Sonic Riders). Naked is classic, but remember, you're trying ot be more original, so above all, ask yourself "How often have I seen this before?" before you change things about your character. (A character that has already been created + a cloak from the Matrix (Or Kingdom hearts) = Not original.) And also take into consideration that even with the most original ideas, there's always going to be something close to it that came before it.

Consider species. Your character doesn't have to be a hedgehog/fox/echidna/bird/bat/cat/insect/reptile/any other rodent/scientist. There are plenty of things that exist in this world that no one uses for a character refference. Humans seem to be in short supply. If you think keeping it an animal will still keep it sonic-esque, then try searching for animals no one uses.

(I've never seen anyone use a pangolin before..)

Another thing is ability, and actual story. (If you so chose to create one for your character). "Faster than Sonic!" "As fast as Sonic" "Slower than Sonic but faster than Knuckles!" "More powerful than the Chaos Emeralds" "From Silver's Timeline!" "Amy's old boyfriend!" "Shadow's Brother!". If you have to use something from the actual series to describe your character, or their abilities, then they're more than likely not original. Try stretching your imagination for a bit; beyond the limitations of the Sonic universe. (Note: If you're cloning something from the Sonic universe to create backstory for your character, it's not going to be original. Example: My Character's 'Havoc Stones' > Chaos Emeralds) Try to come up with abilities that don't involve other Sonic character, and also keep your character from being god-like as well. (Not that I have issues with that. It's just that it's frowned upon in Sonic communities)

After that, you basically get into specifics on appearance. A fictional character's eyes and hair are a direct representation of their personality 80% of the time. (Narrow eyes: Devious, evil, shifty. Bib bubble eyes: Happy, jovial, kind. White hair: demonic, mystical, wise. Red hair: Badass..etc.)

Last but not least.. the shoes. Your character can be original as anything, but in the Sonic universe, your shoes are almost like a fingerprint. If your character's shoes are purple version's of Sonic's shoes, or Tails' shoes, just black instead of red: You really need to rethink these elements if you're trying to go for originality. If your character's shoes contains any parts of shoes that belong to other Sonic characters', then you may need to backtrack a bit. (Also try not to make your character have clone body parts of other Sonic characters. Like Shadow's chest hair. Or Tails' flicks of hair. Or his Tails for that matter.)

 

[Rob]

This topic is trailing off miserably. Point being: add constructive criticism, or don't add any at all. Placing meaningless tips before and/or after an insult isn't exactly constructive. When you do that, you're really only teaching people you're schmuck a who's greatest talent is pointing out obvious things. And you shouldn't misuse words just to make your argument sound more valid. It's tacky. (Note: You can be constructive without being critical. It's not necessary.)

But when the critical criticism is the only appropriate criticism, then that's what to use. Clearly you don't understand that we are trying to discourage people making recolors. They're all inherently the same thing, and are dreary and boring. Saying one should stop with a recolor is hardly inappropriate. In fact, it is constructive in nature, saying that a recolor is not worth the effort, and said person should focus on something else. Wheras "This needs to be fixed on the sprite(s)" only promotes more recolors in the first place. It's not "inappropriate", nor is it "flaming". It is good and healthy criticism. Just because it's not promotion, doesn't mean it's a bad thought process.

You just ignored every thing I just said. I didn't say praise it. I just said don't go "Stop this now you stupid n00b or die."

I'd like you to quote anyone saying that in this topic. I don't recall ever saying anything of that genre, I simply pointed out that adding on hair and fancy shoes to Sonic, does not a WAD make.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, you did the right thing. There was absolutely no hope for this wad.

Please follow this. Seriously, this is yet another, repetitive, unorignal recolor. Please, please discontinue it.

You contradicted yourself there. No one said "Stop this now you stupid n00b or die." at all. In fact, we stated the opposite, that the person was correct when they decided to discontinue it originally. Please stop trying to look cool in saying things that aren't true or accurate. It only makes you look foolish.

P.S.
I recall the topic about your Rouge wad being locked because it was a "to small for high res, yet to large not to", "pillow shaded" sprite. And I never said you where an idiot or any thing else related to your awesome intelligence (not sarcasm). And lemon is an 80's insult meaning a sour person a.k.a. a jerk.

You recall incorrectly, sir. You see, I didn't start that topic, nor was the topic even about my Rouge at all. I just linked to an image of a sprite I had already done, see. That topic was about some random person's so-called Rouge wad, which provided no proof of being created, hence the lock. Not because of any technical issues in my Rouge wad.

 

[Zeshiro]

Dark Warrior, I understand where you're coming from. Just because I refuse to agree with you doesn't mean I'm ignorant to your cause.
My point being: I'm not coming from the same place as you are. I'm not a pro-recolor person. I'm a pro-effort person. No one will download this, more than likely. And it was obvious that it was a mistake to even begin. But, if you gain knowledge through the experience of making mistakes, would you really consider it a failure?

I'm not saying recolors are the way to go. But you can't just discourage everyone from even trying. The point is, the first attempt in doing something you've never done before is always going to fail. It's a given, in most cases. The fact is that you need experience to do better. Rather that the: "Don't try it's not worth it" point of view. I tell people to go ahead, but it's going to fail. You need to take your time to get the feel of things. Instead of complaining about something, why don't you take part in rectifying it. When you complain that there are too many recolor wads, that won't help the issue. Why don't you try a more proactive approach, and actually try to spark some creativity to stop it.
Just because something starts out looking bad, doesn't mean that it is going to end badly. You need to learn to give things time. And just what does "But when the critical criticism is the only appropriate criticism, then that's what to use" mean, exactly? I saw no reason to use that type of criticism with someone politely asking for an opion and some advice with a wad. That doesn't constitute a harsh reaction. -"Do you have teh time?" -"Get a ******* watch!"... There's always a better way to handle a situation. Try it some time, it might surprise you.

 

[Rob]

May I point one little detail out to you? I started by simply learning the basics of XWE, rather than spriting a whole new recolor. My first wad was SAKnux, which was not a recolor, but did provide an excellent starting point for me, and from there I learned a great deal. Sure, some of you will remember that DX-Sonic thing, but that, I assure you, was nothing more than some simple offset fixes, at least on my end. I fail to see why others can not take a similar approach.

 

[Zeshiro]

That doesn't mean that everyone should start where you do. That would just be your opinion, at a little arrogant if I might add. I'm not saying that starting with a recolor is the right way. But it is a way. And in your case, you used screenshots as a base to make your first wad. It's not as though they have screenshots of their fan characters. There are two parts to making a wad, internal, and external. Not everyone has to start from the same place. Some people started by learning how to simply edit the stats/abilities of other characters before they attempted a wad.

 

[Rob]

I never said it had to be my way. But I hardly find it arrogant to suggest that they do something more creative than what they're doing now. Making a recolor isn't a way to start in the first place, as it gives the impression of wads and character design as being simplistic. To say that that is the case would be blatantly incorrect. As well as forcing us to have more and more clutter in forums about people's recolors. It's hardly a start, it's a fad.

 

[I'll Begin]

I'm siding with Zeshiro on this one. You're being arrogant Dark Warrior.

Recolours are a way to start making character wads. It's the creator's fault if they suck at it. Bitching about it and stuff won't change anything.

 

[Rob]

I'd like to ask you how I am being arrogant.
And as for your second comment, read the post directly above you.

 

[I'll Begin]

Zeshiro told you how you were being arrogant. Don't think that getting into character wadding different from 98% of the rest of the forum gives you any special rights to be a moron. Shut up and let Supersonia release her wad, because you shouldn't discourage someone for their mistakes. Let them learn.

 

[Rob]

I'd like to suggest that I am not, in fact, being arrogant in that respect. I offered an alternative, and a good one, to what's being done. If you bothered reading what I had written, you would have noticed that I did not say that that was the only way to go about learning, but that recolors are not a way to start learning. As far as discouraging, yes, you should discourage something that is not benefiting anyone.

 

[Zeshiro]

But I hardly find it arrogant to suggest that they do something more creative than what they're doing now.

That's what I'm saying. And it contradicts what you said before. I'm not saying that you praise everything people do. You're missing the point of the argument by a long shot.

Making a recolor isn't a way to start in the first place, as it gives the impression of wads and character design as being simplistic. To say that that is the case would be blatantly incorrect. As well as forcing us to have more and more clutter in forums about people's recolors. It's hardly a start, it's a fad.

Again. That's blatant arrogance. "..as it gives the impression of wads and character design as being simplistic." This statement is incredibley base. Creating any character wad would show them just how much work one has to put in even to create a basic wad. And if you actually read what I said, you'll see that you're not making much sense. You're trying to say that starting with something simplistic as your sketch for a more complex design is inefficient? Maybe you need to think that over for a moment. Instead of trying to speak for me with your assumtions, actually listen to what I'm saying. I'm not telling people to spew out recolors. I'm telling people that if you have a recolor character, you can still turn it around by making revisions and alterations. (The methods for actually doing so, I've already stated.) "Hardly a start" Newsflash: Many people start with something simple and uncreative as their starting design. Even major gaming companies. It's called a concept. And a concept, in some cases, looks nothing like the final product. Telling a person to quit something just because you don't think they've started the right way is arrogant. And saying that a method, that you've never tried before, won't work is ignorant. If you have trouble understanding that, try this: Instead of pointing at problems, maybe you should try pointing at solutions for once.

 

[I'll Begin]

Whether you like it or not, DarkWarrior, Recolours are an easy way to start. Besides, if someone starts with Recolours, that doesn't nessecarily mean that's all they'll ever do.

I know you're saying that everyone starts somewhere, and I'm saying that too. The difference between what you and I are saying is that you're discouraging Recolours, which I think is because of a common stereotype that "all" recolours suck. As usual, I could be wrong, but that's what I feel you're trying to say.

I'm not taking part in this fight anymore. Not because you've won, but because I'm sick of reasoning with you.

In short: get stuffed.

 

[Rob]

Yes, but you also fail to understand another factor, that recolors are an unoriginal, and do not help understand the basics. Why is this? Because making recolors is not teaching people how to make wads. They're using prebuilt material, and editing it. How does this teach them how to accurately animate something? Or to be selective in how it works? It does not, simply because it's all done for them. They just have to add their own little colored shoes and whatnot, and boom! A recolor! What basics of wadding does this teach them? Organizing lumps? You could do that without making a recolor. Does it teach them how to make an S_SKIN? No, it does not, because the S_SKIN is already there. They just change some values around. Does this teach them the basics of animating something? Maybe, but only to a small, insignificant degree. In fact, it's backwards, because it'd be teaching them to add detail rather than basic animation concepts, such as arms and legs and appropriate body movement which follows. The only benefit I see in recolors is that it teaches them about the palette. And surely there are many, many other more effective and efficient ways to learn that. Recolors are not benefiting them, because they are not teaching the essentials. They are a shortcut to a required skill, experience. Playing around with XWE's basic options and image editor would teach them quite a lot more than what a standard recolor can, and more effectively.

 

[I'll Begin]

I'm not taking part in this fight anymore.

I lied. I have ONE more thing to say... I hope.

How does this teach them how to accurately animate something?

Common sense, perhaps?

 

[Zeshiro]

Still missing the point, sadly. It's not about the recolor itself. It's about knowing that have something unoriginal and that it needs to be changed. Not that you have something unoriginal and you need to quit. But you have something unoriginal and it needs to be changed. It's not about "How to make a recolor, and what it won't do for you", it's about "What did you learn from your horrbile attempt at making a wad?"

What I'm saying is, that this is purely a learning experience. And "the essentials"..? That seems more like a list of what's essential to you. And as for making and S_SKIN: That's why we have this.
And what do you mean an insignificant ammount of learning animation? Looking at something and how it moves frame by frame is the most basic form of animation. Pictures in a sequence is animation. If you can imitate it, you can recreate it. It's about learning how things move. You're now assuming that the person who is making the recolor is mentally challenge, or not intelligent enough to grasp basic concepts. You're making wadding a character seem more complicated than it is.

The fact is, there's no right or wrong way. I understand you're trying to come up with an efficient way, but there are different degrees of efficiency. I could save tons of money year from not buy gas if I just walked everywhere. But I'd just be late to everywhere I go. It's jsut a matter of opinion. But to say that your methods work better than the methods of others, again: Arrogant.