A Critique of SRB2

[Banjo268]

First, go watch this:

This thread is really about any flaws/defense/responses to the video above. Or if you have any complaints about the game. The talk is mostly about Vanilla, so it would be appreciated if conversation was somewhat relegated to Vanilla. I was actually shocked to see this video had actual valid issues, and not just a random hate video. The reason I made this thread though is to hear community response.

- What's your view/take/defense on the video?
- Do you agree or not?
- Any complaints you have?
- Are they valid complaints or griefs with the game?

I might come back to this thread and share my thoughts, but for now, I leave the floor to you all. Enjoy :)

(EDIT: That thumbnail bro )
(Edit edit: I don't hate this guy or anything, I still respect him, same goes for you all. Just wanted to make it clear this is for discussion purposes, not to gather a hate club or something)

 

[InfernoMelon]

Honestly, some of the points he makes like the controls and jump being too heavy, I would have agreed if I'm (or any new player) first started getting into the game, and right now, I still agree with that, yeah, it's not really a problem for me now since I'm kinda good at the game now, that idc about the controls feels lol and there's only part I disagree, like the getting lost in levels like how tf, SRB2's level design is so linear and easy to get through, yeah, I get understand CEZ2 and DSZ? but those was the only two for me at least. Overrated is also something I agree with greatly in 2024, if this was last year, I would say SRB2 is the best Sonic fangame but now, it's just alright 6/10, the mods are only things keeps from coming back to this game lmao, it's just the main campaign is boring to play now that I usually stop around THZ2, there's so many Sonic fangames I think of that's better like Sonic Time Twisted, Sonic Axiom, Sonic Classic 2, Sonic XG, Eggman Hates Furries, Sonic Before the Sequel and Sonic Omens (my beloved) because those games is actually interesting and keeps me attention for multiple playthroughs FOR ME at least but I know people will disagree with and first, 1. It's opinion lol and 2. Keep enjoying SRB2 yourself and don't some random nobody bozo like me, what I have to say like don't let any bad takes keep/pervent you from enjoying the game or any media you like the most.

and... that's all I have to say :3

 

[Jammin']

Honestly, I agree.

I've been playing for so long that I've just gotten used to how the game controls, but it's still quite bad.
I also know from experience how aimless the level design can be at times because I have gotten lost more times than I probably remember. It's not much of a problem when I go my normal path, but the moment I try and branch out to try something new- oops! Big blocky empty room alert!

It's also ridiculous how the best way to enjoy the game isn't through the vanilla experience, which is what you would expect to be the intended and most polished way to experience the game, but no. That's really not true because the community is the only thing really pulling the game's weight.
If the game somehow didn't have modding support, it would be completely forgotten decades ago. The only reason why this game gained the attention it did in the early days was because it had online play and basic mod support, which was the perfect recipe for a popular Sonic fangame in the 2000's.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mass following this game has at the present time if not the modding community is just children with ancient phones and laptops that are too weak to run any other 3D Sonic fangame, so it ends up being all they know.

I like this game a lot, but that doesn't change the vanilla game from being lackluster.

 

[Doxy the fox]

Eh yeah this guy is kinds stupid imo. From what I've seen he seems to just be like that thing with elder ring were people think it's bad cuz it's too hard, which i probably wouldn't like it that much either from the start but to say it's bad like you've played other games like it is just stupid, and this guy also likes omens which like looks mid (idk if he really does each of hsi videos that has come out it's changed so much) but that's not really a critical on him I just find it funny. What really annoyed me about him is that in one video of his he randomly just said he hated the game and he sounded really missed off, like bro you can do that outside of a video lmao

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2024

I mean the mods keep the game stay alive and make the game better, that's the same case for alot of other games out there like Minecraft were they kinda have yo have mods to live (also i forgot to mention but fan games are usually always better than official stuff, like mario the rainbow star exist and I've seen alot say it's the best mario game ever, or pokemon fusion) but the game itself still is pretty fun and it's a template for others to create something new for the game, and both games aren't even finished yet and the mods show what they could look like in the future. And for the level design whenever I get lost I blame it on myself, and from playing the game alot myself I've learned about most paths through the game from playing with different characters, and i think it's a good mix of exploration and more linear areas, and I love that it follows the classic games were you can beat the level very quick once you mastered the stages

 

[Mr Beagle]

Every game that gets popular enough will get its detractors due to the inability to please everyone at once. Sonic meanwhile is one IP that is especially vulnerable to controversy regarding what gameplay should look like (in part because his games have varied significantly in terms of physics, speed, and movesets).

At least with SRB2, you can just grab a different version of Sonic in addon form, though the quality of the gameplay may vary due to the campaign being designed for the default set of characters. Mappers are in fact creating zones designed for addon characters, but they are not too common yet.

 

[pegwin1234]

(Edited) i took away what i typed to stay away from other peoples bombardment of controversy. My last responses have given me PTSD.

 

[Octosquid]

I had these thoughts when I first started playing, I even quit when I couldn't beat CEZ1
But, I came back, played with Tails, and then the game clicked for me.

 

[Julia]

there's so many Sonic fangames I think of that's better like Sonic Time Twisted, Sonic Axiom, Sonic Classic 2, Sonic XG, Eggman Hates Furries, Sonic Before the Sequel and Sonic Omens

Putting Sonic Classic 2 in with all these other games is about as egregious as if you were to put Sonic 3D in 2D in with the other games you listed. (Omens is there because it's funny and it's not good at all, I know). It's a game filled with way too many issues, and I don't get how anyone likes it. But since this is an SRB2 critique thread, I'll save that for another discussion for when it's relevant.

That being said, I'm the worst person to ask about in terms of my issues with SRB2, because my issues are fairly minor, and not all of them are concrete, I end up second guessing myself a lot on my thoughts. Could pin it on the game's quality, but I'm not sure

I think the gravity and jump height can be tweaked, but that's about it for physics, otherwise they function for the levels you play. I love the vanilla stages, outside of Azure Temple, maybe Aerial Garden depending on the day, and most of the later boss fights. The music is great too. It's got a very special place in my heart, and nothing will change that. Not perfect, but nothing is.

I'd understand if someone doesn't feel the same, but disagreeing with someone's stance on something is the beautiful thing about opinions.

 

[endlessonic]

I don't really agree with most of the points in the video. Sonic's jumps feels normal, just looking at the video I could tell they press jump instead of hold. The levels are not confusing at long as you follow the rather obvious paths for the stages instead of jumping over everything. Now onto the Thok, I never once heard someone say the thok is to correct movement. Like it could be used to correct jumps like I do it all the time but it's mostly for speedrunning if anything. From what I see in this video, their just spamming buttons and pretending they know what their doing, no offense it's just what I could tell. I don't really have much to talk about with this since it's a new player who's trying to understand but just can't so I'll let it be, not everyone would like peak

 

[Vulpeka]

1 This game is a Total Conversion modification from the doom 2 engine. All the other games MENTIONED seem to be from the ground up rather than carved out of a completely different game.

2 This game is still in active development for more than a decade and a half. It is not the final product.

3 We just got Ring Racers and before that SRB2 Kart ironically a fan game made from a fan game (with its own mods) is rare.

4 Youtubers are all about self-promotion and take what they have to say about any Team or individuals hard work with a grain of salt.

5 Sonic has had a hard 3D life compared to Mario Zelda Pokémon and Metroid. The fact that this game was pulled off IN 3D 10 years ago (even longer than that) is a feat that needs to acknowledged beyond comparing it to other Sonic projects.

I guarantee when we have a finished product the community will receive modifications to deal with complaints and gripes.

As a community we need to support the hard work of Sonic Team JR and all others hard at work on their own dream!

 

[time gear]

What it really all boils down to is it's either your cup of tea or it's not. Everyone has different personalized definitions of what "fun" and "quality" mean in regards to games, that's what makes them art. Different people enjoy different things and are looking for different experiences. All you can really do is give the game a fair shot and then make up your own mind whether you like it or not. That's what criticism is for; sharing your opinion on what would make the game more enjoyable based on your own perspective of what you personally think would make it "better". It's ultimately up to the devs to decide what criticism to accept and what criticism to ignore just as it's ultimately up to you which games you like and which ones you don't. To person A a game might be overrated, to person B it might be the best thing ever. That's a big part of what makes gaming such a special hobby and artform.

 

[Banjo268]

A follow-up video, shockingly.

 

[amperbee]

This thread is really about any flaws/defense/responses to the video above.
[...]
I might come back to this thread and share my thoughts, but for now, I leave the floor to you all. Enjoy :)

You should try opening up Your thread with Your opinion about them instead of leaving that legwork to everyone else.

 

[Banjo268]

You should try opening up Your thread with Your opinion about them instead of leaving that legwork to everyone else.

More so for community engagement and thought. My personal thoughts are summed up pretty easily: it's completely valid most of his complaints that he has in the first video. And even in the second, he says it's not that much better. And I'll be real, getting into SRB2 was a bit rough lol. He does have a good point about these controls, they're not the best. You just end up having to get used to it. Once you do, Vanilla shines imo. Getting a path down in a level or taking the time to explore can be fun and a good time. Speedrunning and blasting past enemies with the Thok as Sonic feels great too. But I will admit it can be a bit annoying starting out, and it sucks that some people get too motion sick to experience the game.

Also, what is this games stock settings bro
pretty bad, you have to fiddle around in there for a bit, which isn't a great sign when starting out a new game. Ok I guess that wasn't a summary lol

I really just open these kinds of threads because I'm intrigued to hear other people's thoughts. Whether it's SRB2 or Sonic stuff or whatever. I enjoy engaging with this community and hearing from you guys.

 

[Vulpeka]

Still have no idea why anyone needs to make a YouTube video when we have a perfectly near drinking age community forum. (I looked at the archives)

Like I said Youtubers are all about self-promotion and this is not even a finished product. I would be nice if THEY could join our community for a few minutes and have an active discussion with US (the community) instead of trying to get Subscribes, Views and Likes off of others hard work.

As far as motion sickness goes, I have never heard the Super Smash Brothers community complain about it and you can always suspend the game unlike super smash brothers.

I was playing SRB2 when it did not even have the awesome controller support it has today.............

 

[Mr Beagle]

As far as motion sickness goes, I have never heard the Super Smash Brothers community complain about it and you can always suspend the game unlike super smash brothers.

The same with Sonic's other 3D games (all of them faster paced than SRB2 with Unleashed actually getting to the point where you outright lose track of the blue guy). Unless one attempted to play SRB2 in a VR helmet, then motion sickness (when playing on a properly calibrated monitor in a properly lit room) should only be possible if there are certain medical conditions or vision issues at play.

I placed special mention on monitor calibration and ambient lighting, because it definitely helps if you can clearly see what you are playing.

EDIT: It also just came to my mind that the video shows SRB2 in OpenGL mode, that will also give a false impression of overall quality with it not only missing features, but also being prone to regressions compared to Software (at least until HWR2 comes in and replaces the whole thing). You also can't just swing the camera around in Software either if that is contributing to the idea of motion sickness.

 

[time gear]

Youtubers are all about self-promotion and this is not even a finished product. I would be nice if THEY could join our community for a few minutes and have an active discussion with US (the community) instead of trying to get Subscribes, Views and Likes off of others hard work.

There's a grain of truth to this, but while Youtubers are incentivized to self promote and farm interactions that doesn't automatically mean that all of them will share tainted opinions. There are a number of Youtubers who will share their real honest thoughts about a game, it's just something to take with a grain of salt knowing how the platform they are sharing on operates. Also, just because criticism comes from youtube, that doesn't automatically make it invalid. There have been Youtubers in the past who have brought up valid criticisms that the devs actually decided to take into consideration, such as MegaGWolf.

Additionally, people don't have to come here and interact with the community for their opinions to be valid. As long as someone is being honest, it doesn't matter what audience they are sharing their opinions with. Even if they aren't bringing their thoughts here Youtubers are still helping the game to increase its reach by making some of their viewers who didn't know about it before aware of its existence.

Like I mentioned before, the only true way to know if a game is your kind of thing is to give it a go. At some level, most people do realize this and will still try it out for themselves even if a Youtuber didn't like it. There are some people out there who refuse to think for themselves and just take their favorite Youtuber's word for it, but that's just a fact of life that can't really be avoided, and it's their own loss for thinking that way.

 

[Dat Hedgehog Boi]

Eh yeah this guy is kinds stupid imo. From what I've seen he seems to just be like that thing with elder ring were people think it's bad cuz it's too hard, which i probably wouldn't like it that much either from the start but to say it's bad like you've played other games like it is just stupid, and this guy also likes omens which like looks mid (idk if he really does each of hsi videos that has come out it's changed so much) but that's not really a critical on him I just find it funny. What really annoyed me about him is that in one video of his he randomly just said he hated the game and he sounded really missed off, like bro you can do that outside of a video lmao

Post automatically merged: Oct 9, 2024

I mean the mods keep the game stay alive and make the game better, that's the same case for alot of other games out there like Minecraft were they kinda have yo have mods to live (also i forgot to mention but fan games are usually always better than official stuff, like mario the rainbow star exist and I've seen alot say it's the best mario game ever, or pokemon fusion) but the game itself still is pretty fun and it's a template for others to create something new for the game, and both games aren't even finished yet and the mods show what they could look like in the future. And for the level design whenever I get lost I blame it on myself, and from playing the game alot myself I've learned about most paths through the game from playing with different characters, and i think it's a good mix of exploration and more linear areas, and I love that it follows the classic games were you can beat the level very quick once you mastered the stages

Difficultly was never mentioned in the video

 

[Doxy the fox]

Difficultly was never mentioned in the video

I didn't say in the video I'm judt saying this guy doesnt really have the best way of criticising srv2 which hes said in commenrs and bis second video that its "too hard for beginners" which i don't really understand, the game isn't that hard to get used to and this guy clearly my advice of just learning how to play the game like any other has been the case since recently he has been enjoying the game at least in some way more because he learned how to play it like what he said in his recent second video on deep sea. I also wanna say that i kinda respect him a lil more in that video but I don't really see how the issues really effect the game all that much, ig I would want for there to be a more adventure esk or more classic accurate kind of feeling game but there aren't alot of times when I really need it because I think the game feels fine rn, and like his problem we're the level design gets "confusing" in castle eggman, like bro you do realize you already went to that area it should be a signal for you to not go there if you have a memory, and his problems with navigating the menu and saying they're ugly is very over the top, like bro they aren't really ugly or that hard to get through like sure maybe they can look way better if they were super stylistic like other sonci fan games and your fucking intro like yeah that be cool but like it's clearly supposed to be stylised like the classic games and be simplistic, and likenhe says that in frotbie4s they tell you about the options and they're better than srb2 cuz of that? Like bro they never tell you unless your talking about updates, the options menu should just be something people should always look at imo especially now since there's stuff like accessibility options or controller configuration options n all that stuff, and so really I do kinda think it is a skill issue imo. There's so many things like that i just do think it is worthy of saying that, and this guy is like "nah that's just filler I'm gonna make a long ass video on why that's stupid to say even if other youtubers have already done that before" like bro yeah maybe your biggest issues aren't about skill but alot of other things can be considered a skill issue, which I'm not saying it because I wanna be mean but it really is if he's gonna make the title "the msot overrated sonic game" when he clearly isn't even that experienced to even judge the entire game...*sigh* man i can't believe this sj want i did waking up lmao. Again don't hate the guy as a person but...ye

 

[Dat Hedgehog Boi]

You’re making alot of strawman arguments. He never said anything about ignoring control options in the menu. Sonic Team Jr themselves are reworking the menu so it’s not exactly unjustified criticism. As for experience, he clearly knows what he’s doing to an extent as he takes some of the faster routes. Hell even I usually take the slow path in DPZ. You can clearly see he knows what he’s doing in the footage