1.09: Reply to a few public opinions

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Gliding is good as it is. It´s just like in S3K or S2K.

Climbing is different, because there aren´t so many enemies in the edges in S3K or S2K. I think is good too as it is.

I think the only thing that needs to be improved is Tails... Sonic & Knuckles are still more powerful characters...
 
I personally think it's mostly fine as it is. Sonic is still too powerful, but other than that, it seems fine.
 
Mystic said:
There are a lot of additions in 1.09, and almost all of them are overwhelmingly positive, however there are two specific removals that are creating a little public outcry, and I'd like to address them.

The first is the big one: Chaos mode was removed.

Frankly, I'm kinda surprised at the reaction from Chaos's removal. No one played it in multiplayer, the way it was designed to be played. A few people did play with it in single player looking for high scores, but even those people (myself included) generally stopped playing. The main thing Chaos was used for was amusement, like bouncing on Crawlas until one hits the sky, or to get to billion points or some other ridiculous point total. The reality is that it was used mostly for random amusement and trying to crash the game, not competition. Chaos had broken gameplay in general, and the fact that even the people that miss it didn't play it in multiplayer sorta put the nail on the coffin for it.

The second is a smaller one, but important none-the-less: Knuckles was NERFED.

The reason for the nerf may not seem obvious, but it's to avoid the EXPLOIT where the player bounces off an object, glides to gain height, and then at the top of the arc, lets go of the glide, and lands on another object. They bounce, glide, and repeat the process. This allows people to get VERY high into the air with relative ease. Why do we care? Because Knuckles traditional weakness is his inability to go straight up. He can climb walls, but he can't reach the air above the player without a wall to climb. The multi-glide ignored that balance, and allowed Knuckles to 'fly' better than Tails. The second part of it, the slowdown, is to more accurately mimic the classic games. I don't know if that will have a negative effect on match, but it appears not to be causing many problems, but only time will tell on that front.

It may turn out in the future that we NERFED Knuckles too much, and we may have to provide more BUFFS for him. However, if that does occur, we will not be returning the ability to glide more than once per jump. EXPLOITS of that nature just ruin gameplay and break the balance between the characters. No matter how amusing they are to play with, they're still deterimental to gameplay in the long run.

Those words...spend less time on WoW Mystic.[/b]
 
Haven't played WoW for two months. Those are just the terms people use for that at this point. Why invent words when I can use stuff people already know?
 
In my opinion Knuckles was always better than Tails... And I'm talking about things like Sonic & Knuckles where Knuckles gliding movements were MORE RESTRICTED yet, so guess here... Advantage gets bigger...
 
One thing I hated is how Tails is the slowest. Sonic Battle proved that knuckles was slower than Tails. SA2B was the only exception for Tails not being fast. Mostly because he could only play in the Chao garden, so no need to be fast. But like games like S3K, Knuckles was the one with the lesser agilities, and made it up with gliding and climbing.
 
In the Genesis games, Tails was the slower. And yeah, the difference is more notable in the S3 competition mode. I know it.
 
Sik, Tails was the same speed as Sonic in the Genesis games, he just followed behind Sonic.
 
Exactly my point. Did you ever see Knuckles follow Sonic? Noooooooo. He was too damn slow to even catch up to him, he had to take different routes for shortcuts.
 
Chaos Zero 64 said:
Exactly my point. Did you ever see Knuckles follow Sonic? Noooooooo. He was too damn slow to even catch up to him, he had to take different routes for shortcuts.

IIRC, Knuckles diddn't have much of a speed problem. The problem was the height of his jump, which wasn't all that great.
 
It's funny that SRB2 has, instead, all different speeds and the same jumpheight. I'm pretty sure Knuckles' jumpheight should be around 80 instead of 100.
 
Shuffle said:
Sik, Tails was the same speed as Sonic in the Genesis games, he just followed behind Sonic.
Because Sonic rarely reaches his maximum speed. Really, did you try to reach his maximum speed (16 pixels per frame) without any item (i.e. springs)? No. The same for Tails.

Hovewer, JTE is right: Sonic is the higher jumping, and Knuckles is the lowest jumping. That's true. Always.
 
GB250 said:
Chaos Zero 64 said:
Exactly my point. Did you ever see Knuckles follow Sonic? Noooooooo. He was too damn slow to even catch up to him, he had to take different routes for shortcuts.

IIRC, Knuckles diddn't have much of a speed problem. The problem was the height of his jump, which wasn't all that great.


His jump height was lowered so he couldn't take some of the routes Sonic did. Try to get some of the arrow-launching faces in MGZ to see what I mean.
 
It's more noticeable at the beggining of Lava Reef 2. Try to get Sonic's route with Knuckles. Impossible.
 
And for a second, I'd thought you were saying "Lava Reef Act 1". Heh. THERE it's possible, but you're right, it's impossible to get to Sonic's Lava Reef Act 2 wihtout backtracking from the very end of the level...

Also, Angel Island Act 1. Can't take the higher ground, for three reasons. One, you can't jump high enough. Two, you break the otherwise unbreakable rock that Sonic can use to jump up there. Three, Obi-Wan already HAS the higher ground, so it's over, Anakin. Thus, you're forced to take the lower route, which Sonic himself can't take.
 
I especially liked the fact that in Carnival Night 2 you can take the Sonic route at the expense of having to fight the boss, which is especially hard on knuckles because he doesn't have the jump height, or Sonic's Insta-Shield, which would make that fight much easier if he had it.
If Knux is a good boy and does his level, he conveniently skips the boss and goes right to Ice Cap 1.
I guess the devellopers thought: "Well, if you REALLY want to act like sonic, you must also want to fight Sonic's boss too."

In other news...
I have the high ground!
 
Shadow Hog said:
Also, Angel Island Act 1. Can't take the higher ground, for three reasons. One, you can't jump high enough. Two, you break the otherwise unbreakable rock that Sonic can use to jump up there. Three, Obi-Wan already HAS the higher ground, so it's over, Anakin. Thus, you're forced to take the lower route, which Sonic himself can't take.
It actually is possible to take Sonic's route (without debug), but you aren't supposed to do this. In a lucky movement I was able to reach it, but for stupid I jumped out and returned to the lower ground XD

Later I reached that place (this time using the debug), and nothing happened when you reaches the finish. The boss doesn't appear, and you get stuck, being the debug the only mode for exit. This means that Knuckles wasn't supposed to be there.
 
If you really want to notice the Knuckles jump difference, do S2&K and fight the final boss. Sonic can down him in a minute; it takes Knuckles a lot longer, because he can't jump over the hands.

But yeah, Knuckles' jump height should be knocked down to 80 or 75. If I remember, the way it went in competetion for S3 was this:

Sonic: Fastest, lowest agility
Tails: Slowest, but could fly
Knuckles: Second slowest, but had excellent agility (IE, he could, almost literally, stop on a dime)
 
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