It's not a tutorial level. A tutorial level would actually try to teach you things.
ArchPack v2.0 (scmrtf_archpack.wad + Parts pack) [Outdated version]
- Thread starter Ezer'Arch
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Kyasarin
Member
You should know as well as I do that we don't need to start a level pack with zero difficulty when we've already mastered the controls. We've experienced short and unsatisfying level design with GFZ1 and we don't need to again whenever someone decides to make a new level pack.
Arguing semantics doesn't mean anything.
Arguing semantics doesn't mean anything.
WellDoneSnake
Yoko Shimomura
How do you know that it is easy for everyone else, what if a new player to srb2 plays this and they aren't as experienced as "you" are?
I think Ezer Arch is trying to follow the rules of making a sonic game/mod: there is always a easy level with a green environment (or beach in some sonic games) that allows you to explore or race through the level.
Examples:
-Green Hill (see classic and sonic generations version)
-Green Flower
-Emerald Hill (STH2)
-Splash Hill (Sonic 4 ep.I)
-Sylvania Castle (ep.II)
(POST EDITED)
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Kyasarin
Member
It's a perfectly safe assumption to assume that players of this game would have at least played the first zone of the default level set, along with some others.
WellDoneSnake
Yoko Shimomura
I see your a person who likes a bit of a challenge in games, well so do I.
However I think most of the beginning levels of any games are meant to be fun and easy, otherwise it would stress/frustrate the player who is not use to the difficult gameplay, a lot of people in the gaming industry try to avoid this (correct me on this if I'm wrong).
However I think most of the beginning levels of any games are meant to be fun and easy, otherwise it would stress/frustrate the player who is not use to the difficult gameplay, a lot of people in the gaming industry try to avoid this (correct me on this if I'm wrong).
We don't need to, but that sure doesn't mean we shouldn't. You seem to assume that the only legitimate reason for making a level this easy is if it's a tutorial level meant to ease the player into the game. I disagree. I have no problem with a level that is piss-easy as long as it manages to entertain me anyway, and this level does through its numerous secrets. The problem here is not the lack of difficulty or the length, it's the lack of action on the main path, and you could easily fix that without making the level any more difficult.
Action IS difficulty. To give a flat path some action, you need to put something in the way of the player, which is by nature some obstacle for them to overcome. The more precise an action a player has to do, the larger the difficulty.
Let me put it this way: There are few instances in this level where the player has to jump to continue. All these jumps are completely trivial and almost impossible to screw up, but they constitute action nonetheless. Are you trying to say that putting more of these kinds of jumps in the level would make it any more difficult? At best it would be a minute increase.
No, because a few easy jumps don't require precision, like I said. The difficulty isn't in the quantity of repetitive actions, but the precision of movement that each jump requires.
Exactly, which is why action does not equal difficulty.
Yes it is, but there is such thing as low quality action. We just take "action" to mean "interesting action" by default. You can't have difficulty with action, and you can't have action without imposing some sort of difficulty. It's just up to the designer to choose actions that please the player.
That is all fine and dandy, but I think where we disagree is that I think it's possible to have "high quality" action at the map's current difficulty level.
WellDoneSnake
Yoko Shimomura
I think structure is equal to difficulty and beauty because the more complex the map the harder it is to complete or the more beautiful the theme of the map is.
Action is just a consequence of a structure due to the way the map is designed.
Action is just a consequence of a structure due to the way the map is designed.
Unless they offer insane amount of exploration to contribute to the replayability, I just think piss easy maps are a waste of time. Because even a few extra rooms don't last forever. Once you've learned the basic controls for your first 8 minutes of SRB2, you realize just how much of a waste of space things like GFZ1 are.
WellDoneSnake
Yoko Shimomura
So what do you think Ezer Arch should do to make increase the difficulty of his level.
The thing is: this map is easy by design. Its "easiness" will be compensated with better exploration in the future, when I release the act 2, I hope soon. (BTW, has anyone found the hidden room?)
But... I came here just to bleed people's eyes...
I started GKZ2 today. It's going nicely. The start and the 1st room took few hours. The GFZ textures are helping me to focus on the gameplay rather than aesthetics (which is time-consuming). When the main frame of the map is done I'll work on the visuals. I'll use this technique from now on. Creating a space with the gimmicks first and then stuff the visuals in the map might be better than creating a scenic map and then try to make the gimmicks in the map.
(FYI: The wooden cylinders will be tree trunks)
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WellDoneSnake
Yoko Shimomura
Nice screenies, it looks like a updated GFZ also this sentence contradicts itself
Short and long map?
.Ezer.Arch said:
Short and long map?
Keep in mind I'm using GFZ textures as placeholder. I don't want to be distracted with textures that give character to the map, for now.
It does not. You cut off "than GFZ1" from the sentence.
You are mixing positive form with comparative form of adjectives. For example, "short" and "shorter" share the same meaning root but they have different uses. "Short" and "long" describe something without comparing it to another; while "shorter" and "longer" are used to make comparisons and make sense if used with something to compare with.
GKZ1 is longer than GFZ1, but averagely -- if we consider all SRB2 maps to date -- it is a short map.
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WellDoneSnake
Yoko Shimomura
Sorry, anyway what do you mean by this
Ezer.Arch said:
For example:
This building is using some kind of default texture, but this texture is so neutral that you hardly can describe the building. The level designer focuses on the shape rather than the aesthetics and details.
Now with textures that give character to the building...
... we can say it's an abandoned factory, generator or something alike.
You can see more of this here.
This building is using some kind of default texture, but this texture is so neutral that you hardly can describe the building. The level designer focuses on the shape rather than the aesthetics and details.
Now with textures that give character to the building...
... we can say it's an abandoned factory, generator or something alike.
You can see more of this here.
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