No, it's easier for him, since he has a higher thrustfactor.
Circuit Level Rotation - 2.1 Public Beta
- Thread starter Blade
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You know, shouldn't the very fact that Not A Thokfest Zone is so controversial indicate that it may not be appropriate for the main game? I mean, the default rotation should consist of levels that are pretty consistently liked, or at least not despised by a sizeable chunk of the community.
And as for Blade's levels, as I said, I really like all of them except for Egg Hall Zone, which I find frustrating and awkward. I still kinda wish my own level had been included instead; didn't it beat Egg Hall in the OLDC? If you guys want, I'll make even more improvements to it for that purpose.
And as for Blade's levels, as I said, I really like all of them except for Egg Hall Zone, which I find frustrating and awkward. I still kinda wish my own level had been included instead; didn't it beat Egg Hall in the OLDC? If you guys want, I'll make even more improvements to it for that purpose.
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No, why? The only thing that matters is that it's good ;)
You mean like Deep Sea Zone?
What is so frustrating and awkward about it? Are the maces really that impossible to dodge? Because I think they make for great obstacles.
It has A TELEPORT. There is zero chance it will ever be put into the game.
Since when is that a criterion? Iron Turret Returns is on top of the CTF leaderboard, and I hope you don't seriously want it in SRB2.
Yeah, like ditch that teleport already.
But I think the real problem is that you're not a dev.
Please don't tell me you're implying that NATZ is any good.
Are you implying it's not? I am disappoint.
Seriously, why does everyone think it sucks just because it's a joke? I like it.
Seriously, why does everyone think it sucks just because it's a joke? I like it.
Thrust factor means nothing when you can't even get through a single lap.
Well, I know that I can.
Yes, I am. It's a terrible concept that might work as a gimmick WAD, but has no place in the official rotation.
Teleport? What teleport?
What do you have against ITRZ? No, seriously, it's been a while since I've played it. I thought it solved the most critical flaws in the original.
Eh. Not a whole lot I can do about that one :P
Please explain to me why it's a terrible concept. Just because it's a different concept doesn't mean it sucks. And to paraphrase something Mystic said a few days back in IRC: As long as nobody can actually say what sucks about it, it should stay in.
I personally thought the part with the up-and-down moving platforms was flow-breaking. (Also, thanks for making it not compatible with Race so I have to -force my way to it.)
Well, first of all, the current Iron Turret is much better. Besides, adding an alternate path doesn't nearly solve all of the problems with this map.
Exactly!
Ok, now it's my turn:
- Sonic Circuit Zone: WHY are you even putting sonic only level into official map rotation? What about other characters? Am I supposed to change my character on the start line and loose my position or remember the order of levels? What if somebody decides to select an option to choose levels randomly, which hopefully works for race in 2.1, because in 2.0.6 it doesn't. It's hard to rate this level as it's gameplay focuses only on thokking. I know it's a popular complaint, but I can't say anything else. Visuals of the level weren't bad though.
- Frozen Night Zone: Yes, this level is pretty and really enjoyable, but again it's unbalanced for characters. Sonic is faster about 3 sec than other characters, which isn't a lot, but makes it unfair in such a short level. As I said before, it's quite pretty.
- Endless Woods Zone: The level is made in quite unique way and is enjoyable. Nice amount of shortcuts for tailsorz and knuxorz. It's just OK.
- Egg Hall Zone: Nice job again. It isn't a thokfest, there are creative shortucts for tails and knux, the theme and visuals are nice.
- Crimson Caves Zone: I liked this level form the very beggining. It isn't thok friendly, the visuals and light effects are very nice for me and it's quite challenging. The penality for failure for sonic players is too big though. And I did feel charm lost without orginal music too. Hmmm....
- Thunder Factory Zone : It's just great, balanced and pretty.
- Rainbow Dash Zone: My first thought was that it's a joke. Disco and rainbow textures DOESN'T FIT (suit/match, I never know what to use...). Well, its really unfair for knuxes. Excluding clashing textures it looks nice.
- Not A Thokfest Zone: This time I was sure it was a joke... Why? There are at least 7 wiki articles that comes into my mind which says why it sucks. I just hope everybody that gave it above 5 in OLDC voting now regrets it. The level isn't that bad though, as the main spring gimmick was getting more complex with the level progress. It's quite a challange for playes which aren't using mouse and starfing. If you're really looking for different (and FUN) gameplay experience, why don't you put mushroom hill?
I don't know why'd you remove wrapped woods. It was really fun to play. I am not playing sonic in race mode, so my reviews are focusing on different aspects of the levels. Overally, I am not satisfied with circuit level rotation, as many of the levels ( including old ones) aren't supporting other characters.
- Sonic Circuit Zone: WHY are you even putting sonic only level into official map rotation? What about other characters? Am I supposed to change my character on the start line and loose my position or remember the order of levels? What if somebody decides to select an option to choose levels randomly, which hopefully works for race in 2.1, because in 2.0.6 it doesn't. It's hard to rate this level as it's gameplay focuses only on thokking. I know it's a popular complaint, but I can't say anything else. Visuals of the level weren't bad though.
- Frozen Night Zone: Yes, this level is pretty and really enjoyable, but again it's unbalanced for characters. Sonic is faster about 3 sec than other characters, which isn't a lot, but makes it unfair in such a short level. As I said before, it's quite pretty.
- Endless Woods Zone: The level is made in quite unique way and is enjoyable. Nice amount of shortcuts for tailsorz and knuxorz. It's just OK.
- Egg Hall Zone: Nice job again. It isn't a thokfest, there are creative shortucts for tails and knux, the theme and visuals are nice.
- Crimson Caves Zone: I liked this level form the very beggining. It isn't thok friendly, the visuals and light effects are very nice for me and it's quite challenging. The penality for failure for sonic players is too big though. And I did feel charm lost without orginal music too. Hmmm....
- Thunder Factory Zone : It's just great, balanced and pretty.
- Rainbow Dash Zone: My first thought was that it's a joke. Disco and rainbow textures DOESN'T FIT (suit/match, I never know what to use...). Well, its really unfair for knuxes. Excluding clashing textures it looks nice.
- Not A Thokfest Zone: This time I was sure it was a joke... Why? There are at least 7 wiki articles that comes into my mind which says why it sucks. I just hope everybody that gave it above 5 in OLDC voting now regrets it. The level isn't that bad though, as the main spring gimmick was getting more complex with the level progress. It's quite a challange for playes which aren't using mouse and starfing. If you're really looking for different (and FUN) gameplay experience, why don't you put mushroom hill?
I don't know why'd you remove wrapped woods. It was really fun to play. I am not playing sonic in race mode, so my reviews are focusing on different aspects of the levels. Overally, I am not satisfied with circuit level rotation, as many of the levels ( including old ones) aren't supporting other characters.
I'd say that the real problem with it is that it is incredibly disruptive to miss springs and repeatedly be sent back, especially for people who have never tried the level before. This isn't necessarily a deal-breaker for the level in general, but it does mean that you have to seriously practice precision springing before you can have any fun on it at all.
More importantly, though, my biggest worry about Not A Thokfest Zone's inclusion is that it will remain controversial throughout the history of SRB2, and will lead to wars on the Master Server. If some people love it and some people hate it, then all hell would regularly break loose on Circuit servers whenever the level came up. Those people who like the level should be able to load it up for themselves and seek out servers that contain it; it shouldn't come up in the natural course of events.
My basic opinion? Not A Thokfest Zone isn't necessarily bad just because it's wildly unconventional, but it is necessarily a strange choice for the Circuit rotation.
Oh, and by the way, Deep Sea Zone is way less controversial than Not A Thokfest Zone, especially considering that it's getting nerfed for 2.1.
How is it more flow-breaking than, say, the room with the falling orange blocks? There's always a choice as to which platform you step on, because one is always going up while the other goes down, and with reasonably competent timing you can hop directly across three without breaking stride.
Sorry, forgot to take HIDDEN out of the MAINCFG lump.
All right, fine. You'd know better than I on this issue.
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blue the swordhog
a.k.a sonic the haxhog
I have a wad called r_heatstreet (for 1.09.4) that is a better no-thokfest for anyone who hates no thokfest zone. It can be found here:nhttp://mb.srb2.org/showthread.php?t=31040. If anyone can convert it, it would make a great no-thokfest zone
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...
Yeah, um...
1: That's for 2.0. There was NEVER a 1.09.4 version.
2: Its a terribad stage I made a long time ago.
3: I'm not a dev, so even if it was any good, it wouldn't get in.
I'd like to note that this is most definitely not the case. We have a lot of controversial levels, and I really wouldn't want it any other way. Off the top of my head, Infernal Cavern, Meadow Match, and Nimbus Ruins have or currently still are highly controversial in whether they're any fun or not. I generally haven't had an experience where there is some kind of war whenever Nimbus Ruins pops up in the rotation, even though a lot of people don't like it much. I honestly think that trying to make sure that only stages that are liked by the heavy majority of our community with no controversy would have left us with a much more boring game with a lot less variety in the level design.
I'd also like to note that there is pretty much no opinion on stages that are universally "good" in circuit. If you go through this topic basically every level has received both positive and negative reaction.
Now, I don't really have an opinion of whether that map should end up in the official level rotation, but the level isn't exactly badly designed and does have significant variety compared to the other stages, especially if some of the difficulty quirks are addressed.
SLUMBER CIRCUIT ZONE
Honestly, I'm beginning to think it was a mistake to show anyone the working level roster in advance, because all everybody is doing is bawwwwwwwing at the very last stage in the rotation WHICH NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO PLAY instead of offering feedback and constructive criticism on each of the stages like you're supposed to (though it doesn't help that we haven't seen any changes to either this or the Match/CTF wad in ages).
EDIT: Preemptively covering my own butt, if you're going to argue that Slumber Circuit itself got removed, I always just assumed it's because it's getting re-purposed as a special stage.
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We will be getting back to that. Just been rather busy with other parts of development that I honestly suspect you guys care more about, but they aren't the type of thing that we provide public betas of.
How is this level Sonic-only? I mean yeah, you'd need to be really bad as Sonic to not against Tails or Knux, but so what? I honestly don't think all maps need to be balanced for all three characters. Just switch to Sonic for this map.
>autoexec.cfg
>bind 1 "skin sonic"
>Problem solved
I challenge you to present me those articles. I assure you they don't exist.
I don't think I rated it back then, but I would have given it more than a 5 and I wouldn't regret that now. Besides, I really don't think the OLDC average has much to do with the fact that this map was included.
Why would anyone not use mouse and strafing (especially strafing)? I always suspected that 70% of the the people who dislike this stage don't use strafing.
Neither do I? Why was it removed?
See, I think that's your problem.
Well, you need to practice to beat ERZ too, and I argue that it's still fun. Besides, it's really not hard to hit all the springs, especially if you bear in mind that the section with the low ceilings is gonna be nerfed.
Alright, alright. Keep it in.
I don't think there should be any unbalanced map. It's like tails only ctf map. Interesting, but it doesn't work as official level.SPIRITCRUSHER said:
Are you serious? Thanks, I didn't know that, but this "trick?" shouldn't be necesarry.SPIRITCRUSHER said:
FINESPIRITCRUSHER said:
1.Forcing accurate platforming can be annoying.
2.Don't neglect sector layout or thing placement for the sake of gimmicks.
(Gimmicks should be incorporated into a map, not be the map.) < This sentence was essential.
3.Don't overuse death pits. (In this case, teleporters, which have similar function, especialy when removing lives limit)
4.Levels always look nicer when they have a perfect amount of scenery. (Water on the floor is the only scenery)
5.Balance the detail. (Note: there's no detail)
5,5.Scenery should be done both with sectors and Things. (almost the same as above, so I'm not counting it as one)
6.Don't use too many or too few textures. [that's actually caused by almost no decorations. I do belive you can add some decorations or platforms to place items (and make competitive possible)]
7.Flow is essential to circuit. [ The stage usually have flow if you do everything in the first try, but if you fail and manage to get back on the platforms, you need a lot of time to stabilize (sometimes it's better to die)]
Made it, i thought I'll lack one or two. And (I hope) they are correct ones.
Yes, the avarage doesn't matter. I shouldn't have said it this way. Just a lot of people gave it high score because it was not a thokfest. Nevermind this.SPIRITCRUSHER said:
Why do you keep thinking that this stage is disliked only because some players find it too hard?? It's just the way it plays.SPIRITCRUSHER said:
I don't think that's a problem...SPIRITCRUSHER said:
Well, it's not like this level is awful, and much work was put into it (especially to enhance gimmic), but it's just not really enjoyable.
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