Does anyone know where the claim that this is "an art community" came from?

But because of circumstances: the definition of art does not say that you specifically need to create the art.
And why would it? Art was defined long before AI became a reality. Authorship by someone even if not the one who came up with the idea was a given, and so it would have been a "it goes without saying" type deal when wording it. You could also just as easily go searching for other definitions; there's no one source on how art is defined that's more "official" than all the others, and what is and isn't art is something that's been hard to put into words for as long as there has been art. All definitions are merely the definer's best attempts at putting to words what art is in their view.
It DOES say “human creative skill and imagination” however, and you can argue that it takes creative skill and imagination to create a prompt for the AI to generate the goods for you.
You can also argue that it does not. It doesn't really take any effort to just pick some words at random and see what it gets you, or even to use another AI to generate a prompt for you to then put into the image generation AI. Even if you're not, you don't need to be especially creative to just put in the prompt for something you like and hope for a result that closely enough resembles what you had in mind.

More to the point, art is once again the word we use to describe the creation, not the initial concept. It's something made to be shared with others, or even just for the author to reflect back on in the future. Either way, art is something tangible that is meant to be observed.
I'm just saying, if srb2 can technically be considered a art community, then AI art can technically be considered art.
This is a false equivalence. SRB2's community is considered an art community because it is a community of people who create and discuss art. AI images are just algorithmically generated images. The SRB2 community being considered an art community in no way, shape, or form requires us to also consider AI images as art.
But you don't see people going around saying that it is, do you?
Well, you do, but in regards to the current conversation not so much. Which loops back around to my previous point amounting to how the two things aren't mutually inclusive to each other. They are two completely unrelated concepts, so "A is true, therefore B must also be true" doesn't really apply here.

You missed my point. This community isn't an art community, calling it that is disregarding all the code done for addons.
This is a general community, it's for everyone. Calling it an art community is just incorrect, even if the community does have artists and musicians.
And these two things aren't mutually exclusive. Just because general discussion is allowed in the community doesn't mean it's not an art community. It just means that it's also a general community in addition to being an art community. It would also be rather silly to suggest that art is not the main focal point the community is based around. We are all here due to our mutual connection of being Sonic fans who enjoy SRB2 after all.
Yes, you are correct. What I meant to say was that when said imagination is turned into art, even if the person who imagined it isn't the artist, that's when it's art. Thinking out the prompt itself doesn't qualify as art, when you put it into the AI.. it counts as art (with a heavy asterik). I know the AI doesn't have a creative thought or process but wouldn't us putting in the prompt or correcting it if it made any mistakes count as us being the creative input the AI lacks?
Only in the sense that a commissioner would give input to the artist they are commissioning to create art for them. Ultimately even if you continue to make the AI generate over and over again until it checks all the boxes you are trying to get checked, you don't actually have full creative freedom as to how the output image turns out. Eventually you just have to settle for "close enough". You still haven't actually created anything since the AI is doing all the work, and there's always going to be all kinds of errors and inaccuracies with the output that are outside of your control that prevent it from being a direct translation of your creative intentions. It's not quite the same thing as you taking a thought and turning it into something tangible.

Again though, you can take these output images and do something with them. Redraw them, or use them as inspiration to create a new image or a 3D model or etc. There's nothing stopping you from taking these output images and transforming them into art, they just aren't art by themselves.
When we take the definition of art rationally and don't apply it literally, commissiong someone or generating images with AI isn't art.
Commissioning someone to create art isn't art. It's commissioning. The image they create is, because they are a human being with thoughts and intentions and creative liberties they can take. Even with something as little as the exact facial expression on a character or the exact way they depict wind blowing or etc. allows them to put their own little personal mark on their work. This is not the same thing as putting a prompt into an AI and getting a generated output for reasons we've repeated ad nausium at this point. Once again, "A is true therefore B is true" does not apply here.
 
REALLY hoping someone locks this thread, so no one hates someone else for life or anything lmao
Nope. Absolutely horrible idea. As someone who has some experience with these discussion threads, locking it does nothing and only causes it to spill into other threads and even discussion areas for addons. The "best case scenario" is to keep this one open for people to freely discuss. And from what I've glanced over so far, this is by far the tamest quote-unquote "drama" thread I've seen. Only 1 ban and like 0 hostility? We're doing better.
 
as a person who has no strong feelings regarding why we should refer to this art community as an art community, i have very strong feelings regarding generative a.i!

tl;dr generative ai sucks ass and shouldn't be considered "art" under any circumstance or technicality
Not sure when this became a thread about AI "art" lol, but I think we can all agree that it does nothing but regurgitate actual human art, is soulless, and will never replace actual human creativity. I think that puts a nice cap on this side tangent we somehow fell into.
You missed my point. This community isn't an art community, calling it that is disregarding all the code done for addons.
This is a general community, it's for everyone. Calling it an art community is just incorrect, even if the community does have artists and musicians.
To get back to the point of this thread, I actually agree with this and was kinda what I was trying to get to. Like I said in my first post, most people typically think of an art community as people who draw or animate. That is what I think. From what I glanced over, it seems the definition of an art community that "art community defenders" (sorry I dont have a proper name i mean no ill will) are using is something like:

art community: "a group of individuals creating art together" (or something along the lines of that)

MY personal definition is something like: "a group of artists who draw or animate together"

i dont really have a conclusion, more just thoughts.
8 pages and I've yet to see the benefits of calling this an art community

it's a nebulous descriptor at best (everything is art so what do they even do?) and misleading at worst (oh I think they draw stuff???)
Glad I'm not the only one here. I guess that's the word I've been missing: misleading. The 1st definition above says that, theoretically, every community is an art community. Which is true, but most people (or just me idk) think of the second definition. All in all, most people think of the simple 2nd definition then profound 1st one we're using here. It's just misleading, and correct if I'm somehow wrong, but we're not just artists and musicians.
 
This is a false equivalence. SRB2's community is considered an art community because it is a community of people who create and discuss art. AI images are just algorithmically generated images. The SRB2 community being considered an art community in no way, shape, or form requires us to also consider AI images as art.
Uh, what? You do realize that srb2 isn't just about “art”, right? This is a video game, it is a community filled with people who like it.

The only reason why srb2 would even be considered a art community would be due to the google definition of it, and AI art is also art by that same defintion.

Like I said before, alot of things can easily be considered art if you look at it hard enough, but you don't see those things being called art.
 
There's still more from the earlier pages, it's just that drama got caught up in the conversation. Plus, there's still a meaning between the claim "Art Community" came from.
Eh, most I've gotten is avalice telling me that it came from a post from charyb
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Although I would lie if I said I didn't enjoy reading the off topic replies.
 
It's not like "art community" is an end-all be-all descriptor. The SRB2 community is the SRB2 community. As large as it is, it's got a bunch of sub-communities, including a group who profess themselves and others as artists. But trying to boil a whole, large and diverse group of people down to a single simple descriptor is never going to work- as we can see, based on all this dissent over the art community descriptor in the first place.

As far as just the people who are making the mods go, some of them do consider what they're doing to be art. Others do not. If you ask me? It doesn't fuckin' matter! It's clearly at least somewhat subjective, and I think there's way too much of a stink being made over it here.

What does matter is conduct. Just have some respect, for the rules and especially for the people who made you something entertaining and fun for the price of free. That's what the moderators are more concerned with, I have to assume, than whether you personally think mods are art or not.
8 pages and almost no one has told me where the "this is an art community" claim came from
Based on a brief search, this message from SeventhSentinel dated October 18th, 2021 is the earliest assertation of it on the forum.

... As an aside, "creator" might be the more agreeable word to use for the folks who make mods than "artist" specifically. It's a very close synonym that implicitly includes artists, and probably sounds more accurate to those with a more specific image of what an artist, or art, is.
 
Uh, what? You do realize that srb2 isn't just about “art”, right? This is a video game, it is a community filled with people who like it.

The only reason why srb2 would even be considered a art community would be due to the google definition of it,
Video games are art. Those who create mods for video games are creating transformative art. Those who share opinions on games and on mods made for games are sharing their subjective opinions on art. It has nothing to do with the google definition of art, the google definition just ends up getting whipped out when the fairly obvious detail that this is a community centered around art suddenly needs to be defended because there's those who are contentious against the idea.

Which loops back around to the question that Tatsuru asked earlier that nobody seems to be willing to answer, which is why some of us have such an aversion to this being considered an art community. So far it doesn't seem like anyone is actually able to put into words what the problem even is, especially considering the matter of whether the term "art" is being used pretentiously or not has been addressed already. What exactly is the problem with referring to a community primarily centered around an artistic media and the artistic creations people make for it as an art community?
 
It cracks me up how this thread has been mangled into a debate about what art truly is.
I honestly see this as a petty battle trying to define something way too subjective to be nailed down.

I don't see any objectiveness in what art actually is because art can be either something so abstract it's comical, or something that's needlessly complex.
For me, the only thing that makes something art is if it's some sort of creation representing one's self or one's thoughts.
But most people in this thread probably wouldn't agree with that because art as a term itself has become so ironically abstract it doesn't mean the same thing from individual to individual.

I'm pretty sure the "art community" claim rose from a debate questioning the reusability/open-assets system.
I think Charyb (or whoever made the statement) said that as a way to justify why everyone has the ability to restrict the assets of their mods because it's the creator's art, their intellectual property, according to them, anyway. (Take that last paragraph with a grain of salt as I remember barely anything about the origin of the claim.)
 
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It cracks me up how this thread has been mangled into a debate about what art truly is.
I'd say it's more like it's been turned into a debate about what art isn't. Nailing down what art is exactly is hard, but while the two sides would define what art is differently the actual main underlying issue here is what the two sides don't consider to be art. There's the side I'm on which considers the main focal point of this community to quite easily be within the bounds of what can be considered art for reasons explained ad nausium, and then there's the other side that has been asked to explain why they consider this to be problematic. In essence, while be both have lines in the sand as to where we would distinguish between what is and isn't art, one side places the main focal point of this community well within bounds and the other not so much.
 
At this point, separating this would give more context. Then again, we're a community supporting a video game for 26 years. And it's team for developing this game as what it is now.
 
"Is the SRB2 community an art community, or is it not?" Here's a better question: who even cares?
Whether we're called an art community or not changes absolutely nothing about how we operate and interact. "Art" is a terminology that can mean a lot of things, and in this thread I've only seen those things weaponised.
So how about we just shut up and enjoy each other and the game? Does that sound like fun?
 
It cracks me up how this thread has been mangled into a debate about what art truly is.
I honestly see this as a petty battle trying to define something way too subjective to be nailed down.

I don't see any objectiveness in what art actually is because art can be either something so abstract it's comical, or something that's needlessly complex.
For me, the only thing that makes something art is if it's some sort of creation representing one's self or one's thoughts.
But most people in this thread probably wouldn't agree with that because art as a term itself has become so ironically abstract it doesn't mean the same thing from individual to individual.

I'm pretty sure the "art community" claim rose from a debate questioning the reusability/open-assets system.
I think Charyb (or whoever made the statement) said that as a way to justify why everyone has the ability to restrict the assets of their mods because it's the creator's art, their intellectual property, according to them, anyway. (Take that last paragraph with a grain of salt as I remember barely anything about the origin of the claim.)
FINALLY, FUCKING SENSE-
From platter:""Is the SRB2 community an art community, or is it not?" Here's a better question: who even cares?
Whether we're called an art community or not changes absolutely nothing about how we operate and interact. "Art" is a terminology that can mean a lot of things, and in this thread I've only seen those things weaponised.
So how about we just shut up and enjoy each other and the game? Does that sound like fun?"
YES!
 
FINALLY, FUCKING SENSE-
From platter:""Is the SRB2 community an art community, or is it not?" Here's a better question: who even cares?
Whether we're called an art community or not changes absolutely nothing about how we operate and interact. "Art" is a terminology that can mean a lot of things, and in this thread I've only seen those things weaponised.
So how about we just shut up and enjoy each other and the game? Does that sound like fun?"
YES!
you can quote bro yk?
 

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