Super Mario Bros.

Super Mario Bros. Version 2.3

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Rule 15: Do not ask people to make things for you.
Linz said:
My brother in Christ, what in good heavens are you talking about
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I just want someone to make models of Mario and Luigi like Jeck Jim's models but there are bearly any models of Mario and Luigi at all.
 
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SusSped said:
I don't know why, but when the super music ends, the game crashes. Why does that happen?
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From what we known, it's an issue with the ChangeMusic hook. Nothing we can do to fix it at the moment. Best to wait for a SRB2 patch that will fix the problem.
 
Gumballtoid said:
Been playing Mario quite a lot lately, and I've got a few things rattling around the ol' noggin that I thought might be worth sharing (or at least, it was a few things before I started writing the post). Admittedly, the extend of my modding experience lies in Zandronum (Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch, to be precise), so I don't know exactly what SRB2 is capable of, but there's no harm in stirring up some discussion, I trust.
  • With the overalls and their unique coloration in mind, I wonder if it would at all be possible to toggle Mario's cap color as well. For instance, red cap and overalls with a blue shirt, classic style.
  • It would be wonderful to play as both Mario & Luigi at once, like Sonic & Tails. It's been suggested to death already, and one could argue their differences aren't substantial enough to justify it, but even waaay back in Sonic 2, Tails didn't do anything special--he was just along for the ride.
  • Reserve power-ups would be cool, and are something of a series staple besides. The Toss Flag button would probably be the ideal way to drop them. You could also use it to share power-ups in multiplayer!
  • Going off of those last two suggestions, perhaps reserve power-ups could be used to justify a Luigi bot? For instance, he'd use or hold whatever power-up you have in reserve, and you could trade them at any time.
  • For the special stages, it would be interesting to lean into the Super Mario Galaxy precedent set by Flying Mario. Rather than collecting spheres to bust open a capsule, maybe you're collecting star bits to feed a Hungry Luma? Or maybe just collecting purple coins? There's lots of possibilities.
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Alright, I'm gonna finally try and respond to this beast of a comment here, one list at a time.
  • Technically, separate cap color is possible, but with the current system and sprites, it would be extremely tedious to implement. As such, I don't really find it worth the effort.
  • A Mario & Luigi team has been suggested before, yeah, and we could certainly add that in a future update.
  • So, I had considered a reserve system before, but had ultimately decided not to include it. Why? Well, it's because a reserve would actually be beneficial for all characters, and I wouldn't want it to be something limited exclusively to Mario and Luigi. And if any individual shield reserve mod comes out, then they can be compatible with that mod instead of their own reserve overwriting it. Same reason why the HUD doesn't change "Rings" to "Coins", because then it can be compatible with whatever HUD mods you want.
  • See above.
  • Purple Coins could be neat, maybe.
Gumballtoid said:
On a different note, I recently played an Encore Mode netgame where Recycler Monitors were frequently going off and power-ups kept changing hands. That got me thinking about how they correspond to SRB2's shields, and how they stack up to each other. I'm gonna spoiler all of that nonsense because it's honestly probably too much, but I wanted to share my considerations anyway.
  • Cape Mario, Metal Mario, and Balloon Mario are all magnificent. 10/10. Chef's kiss. Mwah.
  • Mini Mario's one-hit death irks me a little in this environment, but his mobility really can't be beat, so I'm willing to overlook it.
  • Ice Mario breathes underwater, but Fire Mario doesn't get anything special. That strikes me as kind of weird.
  • Gold Mario gets all the perks of Metal Mario, plus explosive fireballs and ring attraction? I love a good power trip, but that's egregiously strong. It's nuts.
  • Superball Mario is a cool novelty, but strange. He's far outclassed by the other flowers (appropriate, since it replaces the Pity Shield), but I'm, like, 90% sure he breathes underwater. Why...?
  • Kuribo's Shoe is an oddity. It's cool that it stacks with other power-ups, and you can dismount it and share with your fellow Marios and Luigis, but it also deprives you of certain abilities, and it's really inconsistent in so doing. You can't dive using spin or use your hammer, but you can still dive using your ground pound and grab ledges? Or something? I don't completely understand. Personally, I tend to avoid using this thing.
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  • Thanks! But I'm surprised you like Metal Mario so much, it seemed like most people didn't like it that much. I guess that moving damage mechanic added later on kinda helped it, didn't it?
  • Honestly, I did kinda want to buff Mini Mario, but nothing I can come up with really seems to quite fit.
  • Ice Mario is the bubble shield replacement, and as such it retains its main functionality. Plus, it makes the Ice Flower alot more worth its rarity compared to the much more common Fire Flower.
  • The Gold Flower used to replace the Attraction Shield instead, with the Mini Mushroom on the Lightning Shield. You basically would keep that power trip all the time and it was more common than even Metal Mario. There's a reason we ended up swapping it. I do think the power trip is definitely warranted though, the Lightning Shield is really rare, so coming across one and getting it is well worth the trouble.
  • I wouldn't say outclassed completely, since the Super Ball can actually bounce off the ground and hit enemies midair, something the fireballs can't do. Also breathing underwater is sorta because he's digitized and no longer needs air. Also why his voice is automatically muted too. Plus, it's nice to have another flower that gives you infinite air like the Ice Flower so it isn't alone. :V
  • With the Kuribo's Shoe, I wanted it to not remove all of your moveset, so it only ever removes the minimum amount of moves possible that make sense, really. It is kinda useless, yeah, but it's funny. And it's not like it's exactly common anyways. If there was a way to improve it, I probably would, but I'm not too sure what to improve exactly.
Gumballtoid said:
Wow! That's a lot of griping, but I have some solutions in mind. Here's what I would do if I had free reign to tinker with the mod as I saw fit:
  • The Whirlwind, Elemental, Armageddon, and Bubble Shields have excellent power-up counterparts as is. Wouldn't change a thing.
  • The Pity Shield protects against a single hit, and... not much else. I would introduce the Super Mushroom as its new counterpart. It would function similarly to the Life Mushroom from Super Mario Galaxy, increasing Mario's life meter (though probably only by one, in this case). This also means that Amy's hearts, rather than knocking Mario back into the Gameboy era, would simply bolster his HP, which is much more appropriate in my opinion.
  • The Force Shield protects against two hits and grants the ability to halt momentum in the air, making it a valuable platforming tool. It is for this reason that I would make the Mini Mushroom its new counterpart. The incredible mobility Mini Mario enjoys makes it comparably useful, though not in terms of survivability. Perhaps in exchange for a one-hit death, Mario could instead go unnoticed by common enemies? I don't know how feasible that is.
  • The Attraction Shield protects against electric damage, attracts rings, and provides its user with a homing spin attack. I would strip the Superball Flower of its (apparent) drowning immunity in exchange for electric immunity and lock-on superballs to make it a suitable new counterpart. If possible, I would also make the superballs capable of collecting coins on Mario's behalf.
  • The Flame Shield provides immunity to fire and lava, plus a flaming spin attack not unlike Sonic's thok. I would make the Fire Flower its new counterpart, and bolster it with the selfsame fire and lava immunity.
  • The Lightning Shield provides electric immunity and ring attraction, plus an extra midair jump. Though the Gold Flower is already its counterpart, I would dial its abilities back by keeping its explosive fireballs, magnetism, and shock immunity, but dropping its extra immunities and weight. Removing the clanky footsteps will help audibly communicate that Gold Mario isn't as durable as Metal Mario. This would also more closely align it with its functionality in New Super Mario Bros. 2.
  • These changes would unfortunately leave Kuribo's Shoe in limbo. With how much it deviates from the other power-ups, I feel it might be best reserved for another use case entirely, but what that could be is beyond my reckoning.
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  • Right right.
  • The Super Mushroom is maybe more appropriate functionality-wise? But honestly that sounds extremely boring, no offense. Mario's health is already generous as is, making it even more generous is just overkill. And you get literally no special powers at all? Like the main point with Mario's power-ups is to change something about your moveset, and something like this would not do that at all. I can't see myself replacing the Super Ball with something like this, especially when the Super Ball Flower is already implemented.
  • The Force Shield's ability is anything but useful in practice in vanilla, honestly. Being unnoticed by enemies might be useful, not sure. But the Mini Mushroom isn't on the Force Shield for reasons I'll state later.
  • I like the Super Ball on the Pity Shield specifically for its color palette being similar, and also to prevent any of the extra "fireball" power-ups from being in the default SRB2 set. The latter helps for better power-up variety in vanilla. Making the Super Ball lock onto enemies sounds like a bit too much, and defeats the purpose of its main functionality, chaotically bouncing off literally everything.
  • No no no! The Flame Shield is quite literally the rarest shield in the entire game, you'd almost never ever see the Fire Flower in regular gameplay. I straight up made the Kuribo Shoe pop up where it normally wouldn't in Forest Fortress to counteract this, but that's still only a bonus level. The Force Shield is the most common shield, and that is why the Fire Flower currently replaces it, and I definitely won't be replacing it anytime soon.
  • See, the Gold Flower in NSMB2 is meant to be a souped-up Fire Flower. Giving it Metal Mario properties I feel elaborates on this concept, and makes the power-up even more unique and worth getting. And this is perfect considering the Lightning Shield is, again, pretty rare in this game. It also just makes sense, it's a power-up that makes Mario a type of metal, so why not? Though, that still doesn't make it the best power-up in the game, seeing as the Cape and P-Balloon still provide more powerful movement options. As such, I see no reason to nerf it.
  • Definitely not scrapping the Kuribo's Shoe in favor of the Super Mushroom. Ironically, the Kuribo's Shoe actually gives the Super Mushroom's functionality, since it gives you a separate hit in addition to your power-ups. And it's much less boring too. It's still not perfect, as I've said before, but I'm not going to simply scrap it.
Gumballtoid said:
In the end, the power-up distribution would look something like this:
  • Attraction Shield -- Superball Flower
  • Force Shield -- Mini Mushroom
  • Armageddon Shield -- P-Balloon
  • Whirlwind Shield -- Cape Feather
  • Elemental Shield -- Metal Cap
  • Flame Shield -- Fire Flower
  • Bubble Shield -- Ice Flower
  • Lightning Shield -- Gold Flower
  • Pity Shield -- Super Mushroom
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I do really appreciate your suggestions here, but we were very intentional about the power-up replacements we did. Rarity plays a big part in the selection, as I and others have stated, not just simply how much each fits. Aside from the Gold Flower and Mini Mushroom swap I mentioned earlier, the Metal Cap and Fire Flower were swapped during development as well. Even the Pity Shield can be considered rare. You actually can't get it in vanilla at all, since no Pity Shield monitors exist in the base levels. All the extra flowers and Kuribo's Shoe were intentionally made rare since they're either not super unique or Kuribo's Shoe. You mentioned playing through Encore Mode, and that mod actually skews this rarity system, since it likes to prioritize placing S3K shields over SRB2's set. Not that it's a bad thing, but most levels, and especially the vanilla levels, do the opposite, and that's what the current shield set accounts for. As such, we'll probably end up just keeping this the same. But, I will take your other suggestions into account in the future.
 
I certainly wasn't expecting such a substantial response, but it definitely helped me better understand the reasoning behind some of these decisions. I appreciate your candor! Looking forward to what else you guys have in store.

Unrelated, but something occurred to me the other day that had me kicking myself for not including it in the post. In SMB3 and the NSMB games, Mario performs flashy spinning jumps while under the effect of a Super Star. It would be little more than garnish, but it would be a hilarious addition--and presumably an easy one, since the requisite sprites already exist. Consider that an addendum, I guess!
 
Gumballtoid said:
Unrelated, but something occurred to me the other day that had me kicking myself for not including it in the post. In SMB3 and the NSMB games, Mario performs flashy spinning jumps while under the effect of a Super Star. It would be little more than garnish, but it would be a hilarious addition--and presumably an easy one, since the requisite sprites already exist. Consider that an addendum, I guess!
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Actually, the lack of that is intentional too. It's specifically to retain the visual clarity of the differences between the normal jumps and a triple jump. The triple jump has you straight up doing a Sonic spin jump in how it works. So I wanted to keep the different states, even if not that different, clear to the player.
If there was a unique triple jump animation that wasn't rolling then I probably would've done it. But that would've been a bit overkill.
 
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