What in the world is SRB2 Workshop?

[InfernoMelon]

I also wanted to bring some things up that I could never properly intergrate into an argument.

1st Thing, 2 words:
Ken.
Penders.

This is a man that is so hated by the Archie community, and kind of in general by Sonic fans, for suing Archie and actually winning. He claimed copyright over his characters because of Sonic Chronicles, and Archie had to go through a "Super Genesis Wave" that redesigned the entire world of Mobius and it's denizens. Arguably, Archie started to die off with it's issues, and many blame Penders to this day. There's a 2ish hour-long interview talking with Penders himself on YT about his struggles with Archie and the trial as a whole, and genuinely? I feel bad for the guy. The rushed work conditions he was under and illegal use of his characters in a game, it seemed things were stacked against him. So he took what he wrote back with a lawsuit, and won.
From what I see from comments on YT relating to Archie, people despise Penders for doing his actions and basically causing Archie to fail and IDW take over. But the scariest part for me? If this man and the situation that happened with him happened within this community, people would have been on his side.
People would have been defending Penders and maybe even praise him for taking back his characters as "he didn't give the permission for it". The parallel between Ken Pender's story of plagiarism and this community's "status quo"(Sandwichface) of protecting Reusability is insane in my eyes. This man, in short, took what was his back, and in this hypothetical case, ban the Archie stand-in from the community for taking his stuff without permission.
And yet. Fans. Hate. Him. For it.

Just interesting thing to point out and maybe discuss.


2nd Thing, 2 more words:
Public. Domain.

With companies like Disney, people often long for the days when a certain franchise or IP could have some fresh new stories for people to experience, but they can't because any attempt to do so would have Disney or the IP holder come down on them hard. And I sometimes see people whine that "_______ isn't doing anything with ______ and I hate it" or "I wish I owned _____ instead of _____ so I could revive the franchise".
Do y'all remember January 1st, or just the internet in January? Everyone freaked out when Mickey Mouse himself became public domain. Everyone started doing whatever with him, doing stuff Disney would normally eradicate, but can't since they don't own him anymore.
And the mockery was insane.
The mockery to Disney that something they strived so long to keep and not let the public access, finally be let loose onto us was so high. I think some of it still goes on today with people jesting Disney with "now I own mickey hehe".
This is a little random for a thread about portlegs and reusability, but this is the part I really wanna highlight:
People hate those who own something and won't share it with everyone else.


You can criticize this all you want, but it's more just statements rather than attacks. Analyze this and counter all you want, but you're not winning anything. You're just fulfilling some need to be right here.

Anyways, have fun reading 20 paragraphs :)

you are off-topic (also hop off, the goat Archie Comics)

 

[PowerCD]

please, for the love of god, crediting is enough. im already scared of talking to moderators and admins and crap though they're probably smelly shower defiers behind the screen, so what will i say when im face to face with a guy that doesn't even want to hear the word "Sonic" anymore and will probably be dead by the time i find his contacts, all just to make A PORT OF A MOD FOR A FAKE SONIC GAME. no, sprites are not "art", art is actually caring about the rest of the project as MUCH as ur art, so if the gameplay (the only thing you need to worry about) sucks, it all sucks. even the GODDAMN ARTIST CREATOR OF SRB2 said its fine to portleg. workshop is good, case closed.

Post automatically merged: Mar 23, 2024

i apologise for my tone

please, for the love of god, crediting is enough. im already scared of talking to moderators and admins and crap though they're probably smelly shower defiers behind the screen, so what will i say when im face to face with a guy that doesn't even want to hear the word "Sonic" anymore and will probably be dead by the time i find his contacts, all just to make A PORT OF A MOD FOR A FAKE SONIC GAME. no, sprites are not "art", art is actually caring about the rest of the project as MUCH as ur art, so if the gameplay (the only thing you need to worry about) sucks, it all sucks. even the GODDAMN ARTIST CREATOR OF SRB2 said its fine to portleg. workshop is good, case closed.

here
but this shouldn't have to last 45 pages just for a simple solution: if ur device cant run old, portlegs are gold

 

[SP Moves Enjoyer]

please, for the love of god, crediting is enough. im already scared of talking to moderators and admins and crap though they're probably smelly shower defiers behind the screen, so what will i say when im face to face with a guy that doesn't even want to hear the word "Sonic" anymore and will probably be dead by the time i find his contacts, all just to make A PORT OF A MOD FOR A FAKE SONIC GAME. no, sprites are not "art", art is actually caring about the rest of the project as MUCH as ur art, so if the gameplay (the only thing you need to worry about) sucks, it all sucks. even the GODDAMN ARTIST CREATOR OF SRB2 said its fine to portleg. workshop is good, case closed.

what are you even talking about, this shit makes no sense

making sprites IS art
coding IS art
making mods for srb2 IS art

these things by definition are art, and a lot more things are

then you got the part of your post that says you don't want to spend an eternity looking for peoples contacts, despite the fact that there's systems that make it so that this wouldn't even happen anyways

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm genuinely baffled of the same arguments being thrown out all the time, repeating what someone else said to make you look smart. It's honestly just sad to think that people literally cannot wait until the 3 month deadline for portlets, or ask for basic permission to use parts of peoples mods. The latter doesn't even take up to 10 seconds

I literally asked someone if I could use their 2.1 Amy port for my 2.0 Amy moveset and I got a reply in like a few days, it's really not that hard

TL;DR: these arguments stink, most arguments defending the workshop stink, most issues with reuseablity are exaggerated, workshop is literally pointless (unless your lazy as hell, and even they don't even accept add-ons anymore unless you ping them on the discord)

 

[InfernoMelon]

sprites are not "art"

Wtf, are you saying THIS isn't ART?????

People these days, I can't stand them.....

 

[amperbee]

Spoiling so it doesn't cover a whole screen

Spoiler: hi Banjo268

Wait this thread got unlocked?

i don't think this thread was ever locked.
usually locked threads get a staff reply at the end explaining why the lock. i see none here

1st Thing, 2 words:
Ken.
Penders.
[...]
Just interesting thing to point out and maybe discuss.

pretty sure the penders vs archie situation is considerably different than what this thread is about. for one, it involves two official or ex-official artists with a particular legal problem. i don't think it's very on topic.

You can criticize this all you want, but it's more just statements rather than attacks. Analyze this and counter all you want, but you're not winning anything.

you don't need to (re!)state things for no particular reason other than bring the parent thread back to life.
leaving a thread simmer and get cold after everything that was said was said is perfectly acceptable, you know

Spoiler: hi PowerCD

please, for the love of god, crediting is enough

not if you want to publish your author-disrespecting port in this message board, no

no, sprites are not "art", art is actually caring about the rest of the project as MUCH as ur art, so if the gameplay (the only thing you need to worry about) sucks, it all sucks.

to be pedantic, sprites involve drawing and drawing is art. henceforth, sprites are art
to not be pedantic, regardless of how artsy you consider spriting to be, dismissing a work because it's not "art" is disingenuous

an author is perfectly capable of walking away after believing their product is finished. there is nothing wrong on stating "That's All, Folks!" and stopping.
sure, it might be weird if that is done while their project is on an objectionable state, but it's just courteous to leave it be and do something else.

A PORT OF A MOD FOR A FAKE SONIC GAME

the game is playable from start to end. i don't think this is a fake sonic game

i apologise for my tone

i don't think you get to insult a couple sides, "apologize" for it, then stand again by what you said
pick one and stick with it

 

[PowerCD]

not if you want to publish your author-disrespecting port in this message board, no


to be pedantic, sprites involve drawing and drawing is art. henceforth, sprites are art
to not be pedantic, regardless of how artsy you consider spriting to be, dismissing a work because it's not "art" is disingenuous

an author is perfectly capable of walking away after believing their product is finished. there is nothing wrong on stating "That's All, Folks!" and stopping.
sure, it might be weird if that is done while their project is on an objectionable state, but it's just courteous to leave it be and do something else.


the game is playable from start to end. i don't think this is a fake sonic game


i don't think you get to insult a couple sides, "apologize" for it, then stand again by what you said
pick one and stick with it

1. i get that, but the rule honestly sucks, plus copyright doesn't really apply to fan stuff unless it makes money

2. what i meant with that second point was that if one part of an art isn't as nice as the others, the art collapses. i still think its hella narcissistic that THIS is the only place on the internet where there is an emphasis on "art" in modding, when other sites would just consider it what it is: a modification, especially considering that the "art" part of this game started by tracing some random prerendered sprites (something the modern srb2 community would bash people for).

3. the game itself is fully real, yes, but it isn't real as in its not official in anyway, no money is made off it, and anyone not using modding as a simple hobby are doomed to just be in their parent's basement, and if they get a job, they'll suck at their job from how much "art" they put into a freeware game about going fast, and eventually, they'll die from exhaustion.

4. this is what i can agree on. at that time, i was scared of typing anything of my honest opinion from the thought that i would just be seen as a forever controversial figure that receives zero redemption and then possibly be exiled from the internet or something. sounds like a stretch, but i've seen people's reputations tarnish from other people making up stupid lies.

Wtf, are you saying THIS isn't ART?????
View attachment 115181
People these days, I can't stand them.....

sonis is the closest thing to art in this community lol

what are you even talking about, this shit makes no sense

making sprites IS art
coding IS art
making mods for srb2 IS art

these things by definition are art, and a lot more things are

then you got the part of your post that says you don't want to spend an eternity looking for peoples contacts, despite the fact that there's systems that make it so that this wouldn't even happen anyways

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm genuinely baffled of the same arguments being thrown out all the time, repeating what someone else said to make you look smart. It's honestly just sad to think that people literally cannot wait until the 3 month deadline for portlets, or ask for basic permission to use parts of peoples mods. The latter doesn't even take up to 10 seconds

I literally asked someone if I could use their 2.1 Amy port for my 2.0 Amy moveset and I got a reply in like a few days, it's really not that hard

TL;DR: these arguments stink, most arguments defending the workshop stink, most issues with reuseablity are exaggerated, workshop is literally pointless (unless your lazy as hell, and even they don't even accept add-ons anymore unless you ping them on the discord)

1. i never said coding wasn't art, as i said myself:

art is actually caring about the rest of the project as MUCH as ur art, so if the gameplay (the only thing you need to worry about) sucks, it all sucks.

2. i also said:

im already scared of talking to moderators and admins and crap though they're probably smelly shower defiers behind the screen

3. i didn't even know the last part, but your point of arguments and opinions "stinking" doesn't make your argument look better.

 

[Octosquid]

1. i get that, but the rule honestly sucks, plus copyright doesn't really apply to fan stuff unless it makes money

That's not how copyright works, copyright.gov says "Everyone is a copyright owner. Once you create an original work and fix it, like taking a photograph, writing a poem or blog, or recording a new song, you are the author and the owner"

2. what i meant with that second point was that if one part of an art isn't as nice as the others, the art collapses. i still think its hella narcissistic that THIS is the only place on the internet where there is an emphasis on "art" in modding, when other sites would just consider it what it is: a modification, especially considering that the "art" part of this game started by tracing some random prerendered sprites (something the modern srb2 community would bash people for).

just because they don't state that it's art doesn't mean it isn't art, and the definition of art is "The conscious use of the imagination in the production of objects intended to be contemplated or appreciated as beautiful, as in the arrangement of forms, sounds, or words." so just because the modern srb2 community would bash someone for tracing random prerendered sprites doesn't mean that it isn't art, that was still made with artistic intent and the original ssn sprites look completely different to the xtreme sprites

3. the game itself is fully real, yes, but it isn't real as in its not official in anyway, no money is made off it, and anyone not using modding as a simple hobby are doomed to just be in their parent's basement, and if they get a job, they'll suck at their job from how much "art" they put into a freeware game about going fast, and eventually, they'll die from exhaustion.

This doesn't make sense. Skills from srb2 can DEFINITELY transfer over to a job, like sprite art, scripting, level design, and also modeling, all of which are skills that can be used in the game industry and other industries as well

4. this is what i can agree on. at that time, i was scared of typing anything of my honest opinion from the thought that i would just be seen as a forever controversial figure that receives zero redemption and then possibly be exiled from the internet or something. sounds like a stretch, but i've seen people's reputations tarnish from other people making up stupid lies.

This makes sense, no comment

 

[ReverandToast_]

I like how this thread just started with a simple question: "what is srb2 workshop?" Then all of a sudden this thread becomes a class if it was a whole school

 

[amperbee]

i get that, but the rule honestly sucks, plus copyright doesn't really apply to fan stuff unless it makes money

if you don't like the rule you can just not use the message board

copyright applies to all creations regardless of whether they make any money.
see: fanart

if one part of an art isn't as nice as the others, the art collapses.

i don't like how rain world exercises its mechanics (and lack of explanation thereof) upon the player but it's still a pretty solid and pretty artful game

i still think its hella narcissistic that THIS is the only place on the internet where there is an emphasis on "art" in modding

creative work is art
if you set out to do your very own whatever it is you like to do, it is art as per the definition of the word
it isn't narcissistic until you make it so

i have no clue who's the smart fella who brought the "art" side to the thread but i really don't see anybody calling modding "art" other than this thread and a few select people. i roll with it because it makes sense to me.
there's probably the "this is an artist community" guideline somewhere but that doesn't create the implication that "modding == art", only that people make creative work and should be respected as such

the game itself is fully real, yes, but it isn't real as in its not official in anyway, no money is made off it, and anyone not using modding as a simple hobby are doomed to just be in their parent's basement, and if they get a job, they'll suck at their job from how much "art" they put into a freeware game about going fast, and eventually, they'll die from exhaustion.

this tangent of yours is really weird

if a game exists, it is real. it's tangible, intended to be enjoyed, and potentially playable from start to end.
it may not be official, but it is still a game.
people enjoy making stuff for others to play.

i'm not sure why are you bringing the implication that people take modding as a job. modding is a hobby and will always be a hobby, people like modding games for fun and to have something they like appear and exist in some media. they use their free time for this and will obviously put it aside it if there are other things to prioritize.

i was scared of typing anything of my honest opinion from the thought that i would just be seen as a forever controversial figure that receives zero redemption and then possibly be exiled from the internet or something. sounds like a stretch, but i've seen people's reputations tarnish from other people making up stupid lies.

if you are scared of destroying your reputation, why are you being combative and insulting the community you are on?
is this on purpose?

 

[CFir]

how is this thread still alive bro

 

[Jammin']

please, for the love of god, crediting is enough. im already scared of talking to moderators and admins and crap though they're probably smelly shower defiers behind the screen, so what will i say when im face to face with a guy that doesn't even want to hear the word "Sonic" anymore and will probably be dead by the time i find his contacts, all just to make A PORT OF A MOD FOR A FAKE SONIC GAME. no, sprites are not "art", art is actually caring about the rest of the project as MUCH as ur art, so if the gameplay (the only thing you need to worry about) sucks, it all sucks. even the GODDAMN ARTIST CREATOR OF SRB2 said its fine to portleg. workshop is good, case closed.

Post automatically merged: Mar 23, 2024

i apologise for my tone

here
but this shouldn't have to last 45 pages just for a simple solution: if ur device cant run old, portlegs are gold

How would you feel if you were making your own mod and putting a lot of effort into it in order to make it play well/look good, and after you release it (as something that isn’t an open asset.) the sprites go on to be used in some crappy portleg once 2.3 comes out?

 

[PowerCD]

How would you feel if you were making your own mod and putting a lot of effort into it in order to make it play well/look good, and after you release it (as something that isn’t an open asset.) the sprites go on to be used in some crappy portleg once 2.3 comes out?

i'd be fine with it, plus i'd never not make my stuff open asset

 

[time gear]

if one part of an art isn't as nice as the others, the art collapses.

That's not how art works. The quality of art is purely subjective. What appeals to one person might not appeal to another. It's not like with a watch or a car where it's meant to perform a specific practical function and has an objective quality based on how well it performs that function. Two people can look at the same painting and feel entirely different emotions and be thinking entirely different thoughts from doing so. Art doesn't stop being art just because you don't like one part of it, and based on how you worded it here specifically art in general couldn't exist because there's no such thing as perfection within any artform.

i still think its hella narcissistic that THIS is the only place on the internet where there is an emphasis on "art" in modding, when other sites would just consider it what it is: a modification

The language used might be different, but the actual rulesets generally aren't. If someone makes custom sprites for a mod for, say, Sonic Mania and then someone else rips those sprites and uses them without permission for their own mod, they're going to get called out for it and their mod might get taken down from whatever website they uploaded it to. The same goes for things like models, code, etc. If someone doesn't explicitly make it clear that their content is reusable without needing to ask permission, pretty close to every modding community frowns on taking what they made and using it without said permission. It's plagiarism. Just because these communities aren't going out of their way to refer to it as art doesn't mean they're not treating it as such.

I also think it's worth reiterating that these rules don't ban you from doing this entirely, the rules are in regards to publishing specifically. You can reuse whatever you want in the creation of your own mods and nobody can stop you, it only becomes a problem when you try to publish the result. If reusing someone else's work allows you to practice and gradually refine your own skill then by all means go do it, just make sure that you remove anything that's reused without permission and replace it with your own work or something that you do have permission to reuse if you intend on publishing it.

 

[Sandwichface]

Why didn't we keep this thread dead? I swear to god this was locked like a week ago.
Oh well. Shame on me for expecting anyone on this godforsaken site to do anything right, I guess.

 

[Mayo.]

Why is this shit still open, it's almost been a year already. The question they were asking in the first place was answered, just let this stupid reusablity argument die already and go your separate ways.

 

[cheeseboi.]

the workshop is basically an unofficial mb where you can submit portlegs
View attachment 90980

fr this is all the op needed to know

 

[soupnuts6061]

why is this back bruh

 

[SpeedyHedgehog]

I swear to god this was locked like a week ago.

I remember this thread was locked.... but it must've been opened back up by a moderator.

 

[CFir]

I remember this thread was locked.... but it must've been opened back up by a moderator.

that moderator is ong braindead

 

[Tatsuru]

that moderator is ong braindead

The thread was hastily locked without proper consensus from the rest of the staff. As one of the staff members that want to keep it open, the reasoning is that this thread concentrates all discussion of the Workshop, at least to keep people from opening new threads about it.

Locking the thread would serve no purpose but shutting down discussion of the Workshop and we have no interest in that. I don't know why the mere existence of the thread bothers so many people, but if it does, don't engage with it: you don't have to.

Further posting only keeps the thread alive. Report applicable posts if you need, but if you're only gonna be here to complain that the thread exists, prepare to get warned for off-topic posting, unnecessary bumping and backseat moderating.