Silver The Hedgehog [dot pk3]
- Thread starter Lat'
- Start date
-
- Tags
- srb2 v2.1.x
Here's a link if you want it back.
I'd avise renaming it to something else so that you don't add 5.0 by accident if you plan on using it.
The slide was removed to free Silver's huge mess of moveset after realizing that less and less level make spinning a requirement. The only level I can think of that does require that in vanilla is the right path of ERZ1, and that can cheesed by going under the obstacle with a Psycho Boost.
Most areas that are only accessible by spinning are those for goodies (e.g: force shield in GFZ1). Given Silver's sheer power to cheese through any level and enemy encounters, it does also sound fair that he can't get access to all of that. Though the intention was mostly to simplify Silver's moveset to make it more reliable and less complicated for players to use (by moving Telekinesis to spin for instance).
If the lack of slide really becomes a problem, I'll add it back on Custom 1, but that doesn't sound necessary to me just yet.
Sapheros
Member
Okay, I'm sorry if I'm coming onto this too strongly in advance, but why on earth are we not considering levels outside of the vanilla? Yes I want my character to at least clear the vanilla, that way the most bare players could complete the main campaign with that character, but where's the consideration for other levels outside of the vanilla, I don't think it should be the level designer's fault for not supporting a nospin character in spin related section, but it also cant be in the fault of the character programmer for not being able to support it, because a lot of the nospin characters get really clunky and cluttered moveset because of it. Like I've asked this question in the discord with really no solution outside of not using the character in that level. You know, unless you decide to play single player and can't switch characters due to requirements of being able to roll or having a spindash at 90 max (Subarashii's Night Temple). Then what are you to do? Who are you to blame? And what decisions should be made I the future to prevent this issue from arising?
Last edited:
Most maps take into consideration the vanilla trio.
Most characters take into consideration the vanilla maps.
You can make extra paths for characters who cannot pass a specific part of a map because of a missing low-height move, or even make a script that forces spinning.
Your map could involve a main path that doesn't require spinning and a secret path or an extra optional path that does.
There are thousands of workarounds. Not all of them involve the creator catering to a small percentage of maps whose main section has a section that is basically "spin or bust".
Most characters take into consideration the vanilla maps.
You can make extra paths for characters who cannot pass a specific part of a map because of a missing low-height move, or even make a script that forces spinning.
Your map could involve a main path that doesn't require spinning and a secret path or an extra optional path that does.
There are thousands of workarounds. Not all of them involve the creator catering to a small percentage of maps whose main section has a section that is basically "spin or bust".
Simon_T
Pyro the Setsuna Fan
Because he wasn't giving constructive criticism recently...
He was just complaining about every addon in the MB, without giving solutions to the "problems" in the addons
Basically, he was acting like my older sister :V
He sent sexually explicit content to minors and is being reported to authorities. It has nothing to do with this thread. Please do not continue with asking about it, this thread should not be derailed because of this, and there really is nothing of value to add to what I've just said.
Last edited:
Don't get your hopes up, this is a really small patch:
Version 5.0.1
As a side note, I've also been noticing that some people have been playing with Version 4.1 (this is even just a few posts up in this very thread), I'm mildly curious as to why that is, feedback exists so feel free to tell me if anything in the current release is admittedly worse than it was in 4.1.
Version 5.0.1
- Fixed Lua warnings for objects using Silver's states. (They don't have a '.player' field and that made Lua angery)
- Minor changes to the HUD handling, not having the right ability won't display Silver's telekinesis bar, for instance.
As a side note, I've also been noticing that some people have been playing with Version 4.1 (this is even just a few posts up in this very thread), I'm mildly curious as to why that is, feedback exists so feel free to tell me if anything in the current release is admittedly worse than it was in 4.1.
GreenKnight9000
Member
I think that the slide should be readded, as certain maps may be impossible for Silver to complete without it, not to mention due to the lack of the Spin Jump, bosses become extremely difficult. Due to this, I had reverted to the previous version so I could actually beat levels.
This is my argument on why you should bring back the slide. (please?)
The feedback I've collected while testing with both 5.0 and 4.1 in my servers was often that 5.0 is way less resourceful. 4.1 was sure more slow paced for having to recharge every now and then but had many ways to defend himself, and the lack of the slide is a sure handicap, even if it isn't required in vanilla stages.
While I do think 5.0 is good as it is, to balance both, I'd readd the slide, the Psycho Charge and do away with the automatic bar refilling.
742mph
My work is never done yet
Please don't remove the automatic bar refilling. Its absence ruined the flow of the game, and was the main reason I stopped playing as Silver entirely until 5.0 came out. If fitting under low ceilings is important to people, then sure, re-add the slide, but SRB2 is a Sonic game, and characters shouldn't have to stop dead periodically to do anything cool.
If you're taking suggestions for entirely new features, I think it would be nice if Psycho Boost was mapped to a custom button. The current method of using it - jumping, letting go of Jump and then holding it again to float, and then pressing and holding Spin - feels clunky.
Would activating the Psycho Boost by simply pressing spin once in a jump as well as leaving the old method as an alternative be acceptable to you? (by the way you don't have to hold spin, only jump to keep floating)
The automatic recharge will NOT be removed, no matter what, as the flow breaking changes 4.1 instored is what I aimed to fix in the first place, and I will add back the slide & spinjump. I never quite realized this was such a popular feature among players.
Here is a planned layout for controls, feedback will be much appreciated:
- Double-Jump: Float
- Spin while jumping / floating: Psycho Boost (must keep holding jump OR spin, cancels otherwise. Or should it just toggle on until your energy drains entierely?)
- Spin while standing still: Psycho Charge*
- Spin while moving: Slide (physics might be changed)
- Ring Toss: Telekinesis / Telekinesis throw
- Ring Toss Normal: Psycho Cut / Telekinesis throw (ignore autoaim) if holding objects.
*Psycho Charge will no longer knock players around. The overcharge mechanic itself (which currently gives unlimited energy for a set amount of time) might be changed to simply allow to give you more energy than the maximum intended amount to give the ability some use as well, without forcing it on players.
Rumia1
Backseat Developer
I think I'd prefer if Telekinesis Grab/Throw were on Custom 1, Cut is fine where it is but playing with a controller or my default keyboard setup, I don't like having to bind a whole seperate key just to use Silver.
Also, what sorts of physics changes would you have in mind for the slide?
Also, what sorts of physics changes would you have in mind for the slide?
742mph
My work is never done yet
I'm with Rumia that if Psycho Charge and sliding are on Spin, telekinesis should be on Custom 1, or at least there should be a console option to have it that way. Ring Toss is pretty inaccessible in my non-Ringslinger control scheme.
That would work fine, yes. I think Silver should keep the ability to cancel the Psycho Boost before his energy runs out, but I'm fine with holding Spin throughout the Psycho Boost and releasing to cancel it.
That would work fine, yes. I think Silver should keep the ability to cancel the Psycho Boost before his energy runs out, but I'm fine with holding Spin throughout the Psycho Boost and releasing to cancel it.
Rumia1
Backseat Developer
Also, I know you don't want to focus on any sort of balance for MP but could you please make it so you can struggle out of Silver's telekinesis grab? It would be super helpful for people playing against Silvers who just constantly hold players for extended periods of time during psynarchy or Thokker where they're defenseless.
A simple counter that ticks down by 1 every tic that goes up by 3 every time you press a button and when you pass a certain threshold Silver drops you would be fine.
A simple counter that ticks down by 1 every tic that goes up by 3 every time you press a button and when you pass a certain threshold Silver drops you would be fine.
Been thinking and discussing with other people;
The other issue with reimplementing Slide (which is again barely of any use anymore) and especially the slidejump is simply that it might simply overshadow Telekinesis again; why bother using Telekinesis for anything if you can hurt enemies by jumping into them normally again. Bosses can all be defeated by boosting into them / using their projectiles against them.
There is not any plan to change the way Silver works in Match, his telekinesis range is limited, and players already have a really long time to react and do something. Psynarchy also no longer exists as of 5.0. Better Thokker support might or might not happen (I'm not really invested into ringslinger as a whole)
The other issue with reimplementing Slide (which is again barely of any use anymore) and especially the slidejump is simply that it might simply overshadow Telekinesis again; why bother using Telekinesis for anything if you can hurt enemies by jumping into them normally again. Bosses can all be defeated by boosting into them / using their projectiles against them.
There is not any plan to change the way Silver works in Match, his telekinesis range is limited, and players already have a really long time to react and do something. Psynarchy also no longer exists as of 5.0. Better Thokker support might or might not happen (I'm not really invested into ringslinger as a whole)
742mph
My work is never done yet
I think that concern makes sense. I'd suggest just making the slide unable to damage enemies and having Silver jump normally out of it. There's nothing wrong with having a move that's only useful for fitting under low ceilings. I did it, at least.