16. Yes, sixteen. It's older than most members of this community. There might be ways of doing this, but it would come out pretty unplayable, I guess.
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Should I or Should I not (try to) make...
- Thread starter Virt
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superutails
Member
You never played Adventure or Humbug. You read that you fell into a frozen lake. Just as your about to drown, someone grabs your hand and pulls you up. I have seen that in Humbug. Me falling in a frozen lake. The mind is a powerful thing. You can imagine. Books are like movies and text games are like graphic games. You can just see yourself there. I was attacked and killed by ghost in those games and trust me, they may not be on the screen but you can see them.
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Blacklightning
Insane Idealist
That's... completely besides the point. There are good text games, no doubt, but there is absolutely no point in doing so in a game otherwise known for such activities as, oh I dunno, platforming. As such, in the context of a game that offers as such, yes, a text-based level would undeniably suck. It's a pointless Genre Roulette that offers nothing that players of the game would be interested in, in any way, shape or form.
superutails
Member
That's ashame. We should return to just noble roots. I would play it, I hope others would play it too. I believe that if you gave it a try, you would love it. After all 0d is where it all got started. A single point. Tennis for two and pong where it's 1d with a 0d ball the only 2d object is the box but every else is 1d and 0d. Good games.
Would you really want to have a text-oriented level in a 3D platforming game? It just doesn't fit at all.
0D isn't even possible because there has to be some kind of dimension, otherwise the object wouldn't be visible. Pong is just as 2D as every other 2D game.
Blacklightning
Insane Idealist
...0D doesn't even exist, and 1D is essentially gameplay down a single straight line (or if we were to use a more recognisable Sonic example, a game where you can't jump or move backwards). I'd hate to be blunt, but these "anything is possible" and "just believe" facades doesn't hide the fact you're essentially just talking crap.
superutails
Member
You guys need to learn from Rob Bryanton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA&feature=channel
Blacklightning
Insane Idealist
...are you kidding me? You're trying to argue the very definition of different dimensions? Even assuming you actually prove anything (which you're not - if anything, you're just destroying your own argument), what relevance does this have? You've effectively gone from discussing a difficult-bordering-on-impossible to make boss fight to arguing dimensions. I'm honestly convinced you're either a troll or very stupid, so here's a tip - "dimension" is a word in the dictionary. Look it up. Unless you have anything to say on the actual subject matter of this thread, I have nothing more to say.
I'm sorry to be blunt, but it seems like you simply don't understand what Rob Bryanton is talking about.
The dot itself is indeed non-dimensional in theory, but the fact that it is visualized makes it three-dimensional by default. EVERYTHING is three-dimensional, as the removal of a dimension is only possible in theory. Now, if we look at something on a screen, the depth is so small that it can be disregarded. Thus, it appears two-dimensional.
But that's not even the thing we're talking about here. When we talk about 2D and 3D games, we talk about the movement, not the objects. An object in a 2D game can move up, down, left and right. That's it. It cannot move forward or backward. Thus, pong is a 2D game.
EDIT: Actually, you technically COULD call pong a 1D game, since the object you control can only move on a straight line. But so what? What's your point? Just because something's simple that doesn't mean it's good. Honestly, Pong is an incredible bore.
The dot itself is indeed non-dimensional in theory, but the fact that it is visualized makes it three-dimensional by default. EVERYTHING is three-dimensional, as the removal of a dimension is only possible in theory. Now, if we look at something on a screen, the depth is so small that it can be disregarded. Thus, it appears two-dimensional.
But that's not even the thing we're talking about here. When we talk about 2D and 3D games, we talk about the movement, not the objects. An object in a 2D game can move up, down, left and right. That's it. It cannot move forward or backward. Thus, pong is a 2D game.
EDIT: Actually, you technically COULD call pong a 1D game, since the object you control can only move on a straight line. But so what? What's your point? Just because something's simple that doesn't mean it's good. Honestly, Pong is an incredible bore.
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superutails
Member
I understand Rob just find. Even though the ball is moving up, down, left, and right, it's still a 0d object and the paddles are 1d objects, that can only go up and down. Pong isn't boring, it can be fun depending on the ball's speed and other aspects. Actually fun and boring are relative terms.
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You're confusing two different things: The dimensions of display and the dimensions of movement. Of course the ball is theoretically a 0D object, but it moves on a 2D plane. And. more importantly in this case, it is displayed with two-dimensional graphics. And thus, it is 2D.
Same here. We are not talking about what the objects look like, but we are talking about how they are displayed (2D graphics or pixels, in this case) or how they move (THAT would be 1D).
superutails
Member
You make an interesting case. I'll have to come back to that later to comment.
comment. The paddles hit the 0d ball, making it go in 2d. Like the 2d person on the strip going in 3d but was just doing, what it does.
comment. The paddles hit the 0d ball, making it go in 2d. Like the 2d person on the strip going in 3d but was just doing, what it does.
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I think we should discuss that via PM since we're kinda derailing the topic with this...
superutails
Member
You are so right. We'll have to do that.
Torgo
Member
I hate to say this, but the scaling problem could be solved by using Open GL exclusively. The reason being is that Open GL can scale objects much larger then software and not crash SRB2.
The thing is, Open GL has a few visual bugs to iron out, like support for repeating midtextures, fog blocks, the ERZ2 lazers, translucent FOF sorting, colormaps looking different from software and so on. The second thing is that after you scale the sprites, the sprites will look horribly pixelated and the hit box would most likely be incredibly broken. Thing on thing collision is funky even on small objects (like how spike things used to work on 1.09.4). So even with Open GL scaling, this large of a boss wouldn't likely work.
The thing is, Open GL has a few visual bugs to iron out, like support for repeating midtextures, fog blocks, the ERZ2 lazers, translucent FOF sorting, colormaps looking different from software and so on. The second thing is that after you scale the sprites, the sprites will look horribly pixelated and the hit box would most likely be incredibly broken. Thing on thing collision is funky even on small objects (like how spike things used to work on 1.09.4). So even with Open GL scaling, this large of a boss wouldn't likely work.
Honestly, Virt, superutails is just talking out of his ass. He clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Even scaled down, Perfect Chaos would just feel wrong and quirky in SRB2. To give you an idea why, load up ERZ3 and jump down onto the platform where Brak Eggman stands to start. Notice how large the sprite is and how you get hit when you don't really touch him? This is a quirk in having an object that's so much bigger than the player in SRB2, and it's pretty much unavoidable. We try to alleviate this by having the methods you hit Brak not involve doing that. One of his weaknesses involves jumping on top or over top of his sprite, so accuracy isn't necessary in making the hit, and the other weakness is firing a projectile.
Perfect Chaos isn't like that. You have to run directly into him, and it would just look downright quirky no matter how you implemented it because of the disproportionate hit box. While it's technically possible to do it, it just wouldn't really play well, and that's the real problem. If you really wanna reproduce bosses from other games, I'd suggest going with smaller bosses.
Perfect Chaos isn't like that. You have to run directly into him, and it would just look downright quirky no matter how you implemented it because of the disproportionate hit box. While it's technically possible to do it, it just wouldn't really play well, and that's the real problem. If you really wanna reproduce bosses from other games, I'd suggest going with smaller bosses.
Goddratini
Member
The hard part in doing this would mostly be the actual sprite-hitbox sizes like Mystic just said, drawing it, and the level lag, especially when PC warps. However, for the soccing and level parts, I have a few ideas. I think it might be possible to just make the actual object the head, and having the rest of the body come out of the water, with it being FOFs, and the head using A_LinedefExexcute(or something). For the attacks, obviously make new objects with SS stopping properties. Finally for the boss hits, I'd say use a zoom tube with a 1-sided linedef in front so the player has to reach max speed(to get past the linedef).
However these ideas are useless you can get everything else done, which I don't see, really. Way too hard of a level to make.
However these ideas are useless you can get everything else done, which I don't see, really. Way too hard of a level to make.
Well, P.chaos could be done like this:
- Have Chaos able to attack, but be not able to hurt when touching you.
- Do not make him solid.
- Use a zoom tube to simulate going inside of Chaos.
- Use very large sprites. Even if the hitbox would not work right, Chaos isn't solid. :P
- Have a separate object that will take hits placed at it's head.
- Have Chaos able to attack, but be not able to hurt when touching you.
- Do not make him solid.
- Use a zoom tube to simulate going inside of Chaos.
- Use very large sprites. Even if the hitbox would not work right, Chaos isn't solid. :P
- Have a separate object that will take hits placed at it's head.
superutails
Member
One thing Virt could do is make a exe file that is different from srb2 but you can get srb2 to close out and load that exe file than when it's done you can get it to close and run srb2. I know that would be time consuming. But another way is that you could make a file, I don't know what the file would be but you start by making that file, the file would have all kinds of cool graphics on it, you make it fun and look awesome, like the perfect level, then you get srb2 to open it. That way it wouldn't look bad and would be fun. You just need to trick that engine. Once you trick the engine into running that awesome file, then you will see space.
PS. You could give me some IQ points. I'm not stupid and I think of myself as a pretty clear speaker.
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