Sega: Impossible To Please All Sonic Fans With One Sonic Game

[AshuraXDemon]

http://kotaku.com/5336675/sega-impossible-to-please-all-sonic-fans-with-one-sonic-game

It's too long to post here I think.

Remember 1991? Sonic was targeted for kids but Sonic 1-3 & Knuckles were good games.


Off-topic? I just had to share this.

and here: http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/halolz-dot-com-sonicthehedgehog-sidekickscomic.gif

 

[glaber]

I think SEGA REALLY Needs to attend SAGE. They should at the very least get an idea of what's wanted from that. At the most, GET the idea.

 

[a bee]

Fan fragmentation and obsession. Some only like certain games because of character X. Some demand more games featuring character X. At that point they might only like the characters more than any of the gameplay mechanics. Even when they attempt to satisfy their demands, it'll be brushed off for some picky reason not involving the camera. Sonic Heroes might be the ultimate ignored fan service game.

I like the new games and I like that they're trying different approaches. Not having tried them myself though. I don't have a modern console, but it doesn't mean I don't want to play them.

 

[glaber]

I'd really like to see them try to approach the Comic fan base seeing as that one in not restricted to the US. (Read Sonic Grams)

 

[Bigboi]

Personally, if SEGA makes a nice sum of cash, they're doing their job well. They don't need to appeal to hordes of manchildren that are pissed that some kid games aren't fun to play.

 

[Penopat]

Bigboi raises a good point. As long as it has a certain familiar blue hedgehog on the cover, an awful lot of people are going to end up buying it anyways.

They don't NEED to cater, they just need to spam junk out. Hey look, money! As long as they have some hook to appeal to the younger audience, then they will be relatively stable.

 

[Connor]

You're both right, except for some of the people in that age group they direct it to ALSO want a better Sonic game, though people in that age group probably never played the good games of the 90's. Should SEGA learn they'll get MORE money from appeal to both parties, perhaps they'd start making more games, simply that some would be meant for the audience that wants decent games like Sonic 1-3 and Knuckles, and crappy games they their forcing out now for money to the younger audience. SEGA does that, they'd get TWICE the money if they did it right because not only are both parties buying, people me buy games from the two different sets(By sets I mean types of games).

 

[JEV3]

The so-called "Sonic Cycle" is something that I simply cannot stand because it isn't really a pattern to Sonic games as much as it is a pattern to the ridiculous antics of the fanbase. Sonic fans probably have one of the worst reputations across the board for blowing things way out of proportion and this image is just one example of all the drama.

"You can't please everybody" is a given for any game.. there is nothing out there that can claim to be popular with every single player (or non-player) in the world. It's obvious statements like this that make me think that some sites are just trying to milk the franchise for as much drama as they can take from it.

The reason why this kind of thing takes root is because much of the Sonic fanbase across the internet seems to love the drama. Some probably like to cause their own drama because they are mad at Sonic Team, some are probably just amused by it, and others (like myself) tend to inadvertently build it by retaliating. Regardless of how justified any of these causes may be, it remains that this is not engineered by Sonic Team but by the fans.

I'm no longer amused by talking about how horrible Shadow the Hedgehog was for the forty-sixth time, nor do I care much to defend my opinions regarding Unleashed and Black Knight to fans that enjoy hating the game. I've quit taking the series so seriously, and outside of a little backlash against the fans, have managed to get more out of it. The "Sonic Cycle" does not apply to me anymore.

 

[TrueTenguMan]

You're both right, except for some of the people in that age group they direct it to ALSO want a better Sonic game, though people in that age group probably never played the good games of the 90's. Should SEGA learn they'll get MORE money from appeal to both parties, perhaps they'd start making more games, simply that some would be meant for the audience that wants decent games like Sonic 1-3 and Knuckles, and crappy games they their forcing out now for money to the younger audience. SEGA does that, they'd get TWICE the money if they did it right because not only are both parties buying, people me buy games from the two different sets(By sets I mean types of games).

They have been doing that Conner. Reason for the cycle.

 

[Kilron]

Sonic Heroes might be the ultimate ignored fan service game.

It's ignored because it isn't truly a fanservice. They claimed to be taking the series to it's roots, and in some ways they did, but in many, many other ways, they just made a Sonic Adventure 3 with slippery controls and linear level design (which SA2 is also largely guilty of...it's kind of ironic that the best level in SA2 is a remake of a stage from the very first Sonic ever).

Doesn't Sega get it by now that you can't please everyone? Sonic 2006's story was crafted in an attempt to draw in the Japanese audience, since his popularity had already well been established in other parts of the world (I believe a recent UK poll shows that he's still more popular than Mario over there). But all they did was make the plot a joke.

I hate to say it, but they really shouldn't listen to ANY of the fans, be it old or new. Why? Because while it's absolutely great for something to have such a huge and loyal fanbase, the second you start caving in to fan demands, it becomes more their project, and less yours. Take the Dragon Quest series for example. The creators have long since wanted to ditch the traditional gameplay of the earlier titles and ultimately go action based one day (DQ X is rumored to be doing just this, since DQ IX was supposed to be action based until it was found out that the DS was too limited for a lag free online action RPG, and they went with the turn based system again). And this has caused the fans of the classics to be in a total uproar because "Dragon Quest is about tradition! You can't ditch what started the whole RPG genre!". But you know what? They have been making changes to it slowly over the years, and every time, it has been met with both critical and financial success that surpasses the previous game. And why is that? Because they ignore the fans, and simply make the best damn game they can. Sega and Sonic Team could both learn a thing or two by following their example.

 

[Sonnarkku]

JEV3´s post is the greatest Sonic-related post I have seen in my life, it has no flaws, and it expresses almost every stupid caracteristic about the STH2006 traumatized people that play those games.

 

[glaber]

Sega also has made the mistake of attempted throwout of Localization. With Nintendo and Mario, I think that Princess Toadstool was always Peach in Japan (Need confirmation on this) while here she was Princess Toadstool. It wasn't until Mario 64 that they merged Localizations and had Peach use both names. Bowser however is a different story as he used the name Koopa in the Cartoon.

On the SEGA side, when we got to Sonic Adventure/DX and Adventure 2/Battle, Mobius was tossed out, the US and Europe Characters were Tossed, even with the US ones getting the better exposure. And we now call Dr. Robotnik Eggman globally! It looked like Sega tried to merge localizations in the first SA, but it was really a Transition of Localizations.

Localizations of Sonic list
World Out side Japan: Sat AM, AoSTH, Sonic Under Ground, Robotnik, Tails, Sonic X season 3(Blame 4Kids for the numbering, J2), Mobius, Sonic Spinball, Dr, Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
Japan: Sonic Manga's, Eggman, Miles, Just now getting Season 2(4k3) Earth
Europe: Fleetway Sonic (There was a Sally Acorn in this)
US: Archie Sonic (Imported by request outside the US), Novels, How to Draw books involving SAtAM and AoSTH's Robotnik, Kids books
Austrailla: Sega World Theam park, Sally merchandise including plush toy.

 

[Blacklightning]

Oh for the love of christ. Okay, I heard someone mention "fanservice". People tend to get the wrong idea about it, and here I'm seeing little exception - people believe the franchise can be "saved" (not like it's in a hell of a lot of trouble anyway, seeing as most games are million sellers at the very least) simply by taking in advice from the fans. What they don't realize is that the very same fan demand is exactly what ruins these games.

So, you want Sonic only games? Okay, say goodbye to Tails and Knux while you're at it. Still not happy? Okay, throw in a Werehog for good measure (hey, it IS still Sonic). Want a racing game? Okay, have two - neither of them are on foot. Want special stages back? That's cool with us, but don't expect them to control anything but crappily. Want a character spinoff? Okay, just guess where I'm going with this one. Seriously.

I wrote a whole goddamned essay documenting this kind of psychology (NFSW warning for excessive f-bombing, btw), but if you can't be bothered reading 2-4 pages of raw angst, hey, there's always the abridged version:

Here's four reasons why Sega/Sonic Team shouldn't listen to you:

1. Fanservice alone doesn't improve the quality of an already crap game.
2. Sonic Team has a habit of twisting fan demand into unusual and nonsensical directions - a trend which should've been obvious the moment Shadow was resurrected.
3. Nowadays there is a massive gap between nostalgia-themed games and entries designed with modern intentions, making it completely impossible to make a universally acceptable game based off your word alone.
4. Because you're most likely a complete moron with no game design experience of any kind and no understanding of the possible repercussions your actions would have on the franchise.

All in all, Sonic was doing fine until the fans started getting heard, and when it results in this much fail you have to wonder what the point is in trusting their word anymore.

 

[Sergeant Brown]

People believe the franchise can be "saved" simply by taking in advice from the fans. What they don't realize is that the very same fan demand is exactly what ruins these games.

Ironic, isn't it?
Anyways I totally agree about this. I think fans should close their mouth up and let the developers do the game like they want to-- but hey wait, doesn't other companies listen to the fans too? And yet they do good games, how is this?

 

[LongcrierCat]

Sega also has made the mistake of attempted throwout of Localization. With Nintendo and Mario, I think that Princess Toadstool was always Peach in Japan (Need confirmation on this) while here she was Princess Toadstool. It wasn't until Mario 64 that they merged Localizations and had Peach use both names. Bowser however is a different story as he used the name Koopa in the Cartoon.

On the SEGA side, when we got to Sonic Adventure/DX and Adventure 2/Battle, Mobius was tossed out, the US and Europe Characters were Tossed, even with the US ones getting the better exposure. And we now call Dr. Robotnik Eggman globally! It looked like Sega tried to merge localizations in the first SA, but it was really a Transition of Localizations.

Localizations of Sonic list
World Out side Japan: Sat AM, AoSTH, Sonic Under Ground, Robotnik, Tails, Sonic X season 3(Blame 4Kids for the numbering, J2), Mobius, Sonic Spinball, Dr, Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
Japan: Sonic Manga's, Eggman, Miles, Just now getting Season 2(4k3) Earth
Europe: Fleetway Sonic (There was a Sally Acorn in this)
US: Archie Sonic (Imported by request outside the US), Novels, How to Draw books involving SAtAM and AoSTH's Robotnik, Kids books
Austrailla: Sega World Theam park, Sally merchandise including plush toy.

Let's not forget the famous statue that stood in front of the amusement park, now.

Yeah.... Back in the 90s, SatAM was so big that not only did they make this, but we had Sonic Mars in the works. Then SEGA of Japan pulled the project.

We could've had something better than Sonic Reinvention #20 had that game been made.

 

[Bigboi]

I like how you imply that the game would have been great. SoJ probably pulled the plug for good reason. And besides, Sonic reinventions have been around much much longer than you think.

 

[arnold_the_bartender]

I think the tensions between SoA and SoJ in the early-mid 90s played a minor early role in the demise of Sonic.

 

[Little Djermy]

Only in a perfect world where rabbits fly and people aren't on the streets killing each other every day can any game company make a game that pleases everyone. When it comes down to making a game, there will always be someone, somewhere that doesn't like it for some reason. The most you can ever do is make something that pleases the majority and yourself.

JEV3 is completely right about the so-called "Sonic Cycle" - I am so sick of that damned image; all it does it make a complete and utter mockery of the "fan" and "fanbase" that made it.

There has never been an agreement on what a Sonic game truly is; some say Sonic is about speed while others say that Sonic is about reflex-intensive platforming; they actually amalgamated both of these beliefs in SU, while mixing in some beat-em-up action who's necessity could be debated.

The truth is that no game franchise is about one single element; what separates a good game from a bad game is how it works to blend those elements into a feasible work of art. In this way, you can't please everyone because there will always be someone who thinks differently than you; that is how gamers, hell, people are.

In short, SEGA/Sonic Team just needs to find a good formula that works for them and not worry only but so much what their fans say. The "Sonic Cycle" is complete and utter garbage and should just be shoved back up the hurt butthole that produced it.

 

[Sonnarkku]

I can´t think of a game that had an even similar process to that Garbage Cycle, everyone has already told their opinion on the forum, so i´ll do mine.
I think that all of the games have been good, others awesome, so far, the onlyones that i´ve disliked are Sonic Unleashed for PS2 (PS3 version rocks) and Sonic Chronicles, what happens is that people complains for no reason other than the fact they hate Sonic or that are simply copying it from another person, I have seen people giving the worst reasons to dislike those games and ask the stupidest questions, isn´t it curious how the 2 of the worst oficial reviews have been for a Sonic Game? well then, stop telling SEGA what to do, you did not make Sonic, you have barely any rights to be suggesting something for a thing you like it to fail, and that´s all I have to say for now

 

[Bigboi]

I can´t think of a game that had an even similar process to that Garbage Cycle, everyone has already told their opinion on the forum, so i´ll do mine.
I think that all of the games have been good, others awesome, so far, the onlyones that i´ve disliked are Sonic Unleashed for PS2 (PS3 version rocks) and Sonic Chronicles, what happens is that people complains for no reason other than the fact they hate Sonic or that are simply copying it from another person, I have seen people giving the worst reasons to dislike those games and ask the stupidest questions, isn´t it curious how the 2 of the worst oficial reviews have been for a Sonic Game? well then, stop telling SEGA what to do, you did not make Sonic, you have barely any rights to be suggesting something for a thing you like it to fail, and that´s all I have to say for now

Because I'm sure dozens and dozens of PROFESSIONAL critics are making the same valid points about the flaws of Sonic games to look cool.