Opinion: Sonic 4 is a good game.

[BomberBlur07]

I am surprised that not many people like Sonic 4. It's a fun little game (actually 2 games) that does a good job of returning back to Sonic's roots. But sadly, no matter how much good things there are in this game, fans always hate this game for no apparent reason. They always say that the physics are clunky, the graphics is awful and the music is garbage, which I never agreed with since the beginning. As a kid, I played Sonic 4 alongside all the mobile classics (1,2,CD). As a kid, there was no difference between them for me, and even today, I never find much differences in the physics. I am also a huge fan of the Homing Attack and despite what everyone says, I believe that the Homing Attack works well in 2D and it should be included in more Sonic games. The graphics are kinda off in Ep1, but they pretty much fixed it in Ep2, and they really pop. The music is phenomenal, despite the instruments. It has a pretty distinct feel to it and I like that. The level designs are great, kinda like Sonic 2 which was the peak of Classic Sonic level design. The Sonic+Tails combos in Ep2 are also a nice touch.

I am not saying that Sonic 4 is PERFECT. But I do think that it should get more love and acceptance from the Sonic community.

 

[rocklight124]

Sonic can literally stand on a wall.

 

[time gear]

I don't outright hate Sonic 4, but in a lineup of Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3&K, Chaotix, and Mania, Sonic 4 is easily the worst.

Episode I: The physics are, in fact, genuinely awful. Sonic doesn't carry any momentum at all, you have to hold a direction to keep moving in it. Let go, and Sonic falls straight down in midair and grinds to a halt while grounded. Addtionally, in certain situations Sonic can actually stand on walls or walk slowly up them, something that should never be able to happen. You cannot gain speed by rolling down hills, and in fact lose speed trying. All this combined makes him very unsatisfying to control.

The level design is pretty terrible too. It's usually pretty simplistic, with most acts focusing on a single gimmick. On top of that, while I do actually like the music, it's generally pretty generic compared to other OST's in the franchise.

The game was originally actually meant to be a mobile exclusive game titled "Sonic the Portable", which honestly if it kept that title it likely would have been cut some slack.

Episode II: A solid improvement, but still not enough to stand alongside the other classic series games. The physics aren't as terrible, the music is much better, the levels are a bit more original, and the tag team actions are a breath of fresh air on the formula. The game is quite fun to play with friends, and still has my favorite special stages.

Episode Metal: A crime for just existing. It's everything wrong with Episode I on steroids, with really dickish level design and enemy placement. It feels like SEGA hired some kid to make a "lol hard" romhack style level pack for Episode I with a Metal Sonic skin over Sonic and no real understanding on how to do difficulty properly in a Sonic game. How could they do my bouncy blue metal boy dirty like that?

Overall, aside from Episode Metal, Sonic 4 is generally pretty inoffensive, but it's not really anything great either. Episode II has the most merit to play due to having more of it's own identity, otherwise you'd be genuinely better off just playing Sonic 1. That's my opinion in a nutshell, anyway.

 

[lnferno]

I don't outright hate Sonic 4, but in a lineup of Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3&K, Chaotix, and Mania, Sonic 4 is easily the worst.

Episode I: The physics are, in fact, genuinely awful. Sonic doesn't carry any momentum at all, you have to hold a direction to keep moving in it. Let go, and Sonic falls straight down in midair and grinds to a halt while grounded. Addtionally, in certain situations Sonic can actually stand on walls or walk slowly up them, something that should never be able to happen. You cannot gain speed by rolling down hills, and in fact lose speed trying. All this combined makes him very unsatisfying to control.

The level design is pretty terrible too. It's usually pretty simplistic, with most acts focusing on a single gimmick. On top of that, while I do actually like the music, it's generally pretty generic compared to other OST's in the franchise.

The game was originally actually meant to be a mobile exclusive game titled "Sonic the Portable", which honestly if it kept that title it likely would have been cut some slack.

Episode II: A solid improvement, but still not enough to stand alongside the other classic series games. The physics aren't as terrible, the music is much better, the levels are a bit more original, and the tag team actions are a breath of fresh air on the formula. The game is quite fun to play with friends, and still has my favorite special stages.

Episode Metal: A crime for just existing. It's everything wrong with Episode I on steroids, with really dickish level design and enemy placement. It feels like SEGA hired some kid to make a "lol hard" romhack style level pack for Episode I with a Metal Sonic skin over Sonic and no real understanding on how to do difficulty properly in a Sonic game. How could they do my bouncy blue metal boy dirty like that?

Overall, aside from Episode Metal, Sonic 4 is generally pretty inoffensive, but it's not really anything great either. Episode II has the most merit to play due to having more of it's own identity, otherwise you'd be genuinely better off just playing Sonic 1. That's my opinion in a nutshell, anyway.

Yea, I don't outright hate Sonic 4 like I do some other titles. But if we compare it to the game that "came before it", it's far worse, hell, I'd argue it's worse than CD.

I'll tackle my thoughts now.

First of all, one of the original points was saying that the level design was similar to Sonic 2, which is the peak of Classic Sonic level design to the OP (I don't agree with that, but each to their own. I personally think Sonic 3 was best. Remember, Classic Sonic wasn't about speed. It was about flow.)

Looking at maps, at first glance I'd agree, BUT then we get to the gimmicks point.

Most of S4 Ep. 1's levels involve a singular gimmick or none at all. S4 Ep. 2 is a bit better in this regard, as I can remember multiple gimmicks from Sylvania Castle.

Secondly... physics.

If this game wants to state itself to be "Sonic 4", then it should live up to what made the Classic games so great. This was primarly the physics. S4 Ep. 1? It's physics pale in comparison to the original triology. S4 Ep. 2 still is worse off, but they DID make efforts to fix it.

The differences include:
- Momentum? What's that.
- Jump gets cut straight down if you let go of jump.
- Etc.

The music could probably be way better if it wasn't using fake Genesis synth. Both full-on rearrangements AND true Genesis rearrangements sound far better. It's the same thing holding back the Classic Sonic OST in Forces!

However, the main issue causing much of the criticism is that it's meant as a mobile game. SEGA, in it's infinite wisdom, decided "Hey, let's push the simple mobile game as a big console game meant to be the legitimate successor to Sonic 3, the Classic Sonic game people praise as being great!" Cue what happens most times you port a mobile game to console: it's seen as mediocre and nothing to care about. Had SEGA not done what they did, Sonic 4 would be Sonic the Portable and would be in a similar spot to Sonic Dash and Sonic Forces Speed Battle nowadays: neat, but nothing of note.

TL;DR: Treat Sonic 4 as a mobile game and then you get what it was developed to be. Treat it as SEGA wants you to and you have all rights to be pissed, as it's trying to say that it lives up to be a successor to a game a lot of the community praises immensely. However, if you like it, that's fine. It'd have been a decent mobile game.

 

[Varren]

Thought it was alright, Mad Gear and Sky Fortress are still one of my favorite tracks/levels from it

 

[time gear]

I personally think Sonic 3 was best. Remember, Classic Sonic wasn't about speed. It was about flow.

I respectfully disagree with this point. 3&K is still the best of the classic games in my opinion, but it's because it's so good with how it handles speed. Classic Sonic very much is about speed, and always has been. However, it was never something forced onto you. Indeed, if you want it, speed is something that you had to earn. In Sonic 3 specifically, you just need to know what you are doing with the routes you are taking and how you go about navigating them to achieve and maintain your speed through use of built up momentum. If you watch glitch and exploit free speedrun categories, you'll see this used a lot. Sonic 2 had some alternative pathing going on, but not to the same extent as Sonic 3.

Mania seems to have been more inspired by Sonic 3 than Sonic 2 and attempts to expand on the concept, but I often feel as though it overdoes this. This makes it therefore entirely possible to get lost your first time through some of the stages such as Flying Battery.

Sure, you don't have to go fast in Classic Sonic, you can just as easily just stick to pathways more focused on platforming and finding goodies and do things at your own pace, but even that is tied into speed as you are never being forced to play the game this way. You only ever go as slow as you want to, and there's almost always a way to end up going faster. The games are designed in such a way as to dare you to do just that; The tricky platforming often encourages you to hurry through it to avoid getting damaged or losing your opportunity to progress for a few seconds or etc. Then, once you reach the end goal, your speed getting through the level contributes to your score. It's as if to say "Hey, pretty cool! But it would be even more cool if you did it faster!", influencing you to try to do just that in a follow up playthrough.

It is for primarily this reason that Sonic 4 fails; Sonic is wholly incapable of building up and maintaining momentum. You can achieve an illusion of it by holding down a direction, as Sonic is capable of building up speed with the help of stage gimmicks, but as soon as you let go of your movement inputs Sonic's horizontal movement ceases, and you can't even use slopes to your advantage.

The devs seem to have been very aware of this fact too, because Sonic 4 is littered with dash panels all over the place. These existed in one form or another in previous games in the series such as in Sonic 2's Chemical Plant Zone, which is the primary inspiration for the dash panels in Sonic 4. However, these aren't just zone specific gimmicks anymore. They are just about everywhere, handing out free speed at every opportunity they could to try to disguise the terrible physics. IIRC Episode II might have been a bit better about this, but I don't think the problem went away entirely.

 

[Chezi]

Indeed, if you want it, speed is something that you had to earn. In Sonic 3 specifically, you just need to know what you are doing with the routes you are taking and how you go about navigating them to achieve and maintain your speed through use of built up momentum.

That’s what Inferno means by flow, btw.

Response to the actual thread: Overall, Sonic 4 isn’t a bad game, but it certainly isn’t a good game. Time Gear and Inferno already summed up my thoughts on it, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you think it’s the best game that Sega has put out, good for you. Personally, I think Sonic 2 is the worst out of the original 4 genesis games, so I understandably get a lot of flack for it

 

[time gear]

That’s what Inferno means by flow, btw.

I wasn't making the point that it's not about flow, it very much is about flow. I was disagreeing with it not being about speed, which it definitely is. It's just that speed isn't necessarily always easy to obtain, even though it is one of the main focuses.

 

[super sonic running]

Sonic 4 for me is between "ok" and "pretty good"

 

[Void Animates]

Honestly, Sonic 4 is at least better than 06'. I played EP II And I loved it. Its a really underrated game.

 

[MsBBQBaconBurger]

Honestly, Sonic 4 is at least better than 06'. I played EP II And I loved it. Its a really underrated game.

Hello please look at this.

skip to 19:55

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2021

Honestly, Sonic 4 is at least better than 06'. I played EP II And I loved it. Its a really underrated game.

I'm sorry if this offends you, please don't attack me.

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2021

Honestly, Sonic 4 is at least better than 06'. I played EP II And I loved it. Its a really underrated game.

If it does offend you I'll delete the post and apologize.

 

[clairebun]

As a kid, I played Sonic 4 alongside all the mobile classics (1,2,CD).

The fact that you were playing on mobile might make a key difference. I have heard it reported that Sonic 4 feels natural to control on mobile, which may be due to things like braking being ultra-responsive compared to accelerating, and how this works well with mobile's gyro controls and/or onscreen controls. I think the difference is much easier to spot if you have the precision granted to you by a physical controller's stick and buttons.

Classic Sonic is driven by granular momentum, with movement across surfaces following similar rules to pinball; from a control standpoint this makes Sonic a platformer that is simple in concept but hard to master. Sonic 4's physics are designed strictly with accessibility in mind, but this means that the rules aren't as nuanced, so it sacrifices a lot of depth that was present in the classics.

 

[super sonic running]

The fact that you were playing on mobile might make a key difference. I have heard it reported that Sonic 4 feels natural to control on mobile, which may be due to things like braking being ultra-responsive compared to accelerating, and how this works well with mobile's gyro controls and/or onscreen controls. I think the difference is much easier to spot if you have the precision granted to you by a physical controller's stick and buttons.

Classic Sonic is driven by granular momentum, with movement across surfaces following similar rules to pinball; from a control standpoint this makes Sonic a platformer that is simple in concept but hard to master. Sonic 4's physics are designed strictly with accessibility in mind, but this means that the rules aren't as nuanced, so it sacrifices a lot of depth that was present in the classics.

sonic 4's mobile control is very hard to control. especially since the move controls are a joystick.

 

[glaber]

Sonic 4 has what I call "Megaman Physics" You have no momentum and can stop mid-air as soon as you let go. The level progression was even Megaman like too if you don't press a button.

In fact, it felt soo megaman like that I just had to make these. (made at the time the game was new)

(if you're wondering where the final stages of ep1 and ep2 are, just like megaman you have to beat all the other stages first before it becomes selectable.)

Effectively, sonic 4 did not go back to Sonic's roots. However if you want a game that does, I would recommend Sonic Mania.

 

[time gear]

Sonic 4 has what I call "Megaman Physics" You have no momentum and can stop mid-air as soon as you let go. The level progression was even Megaman like too if you don't press a button.

That's an interesting observation. I wouldn't say it feels quite like Mega Man, but in a general sense I do definitely agree with the comparison, it makes a lot of sense. If the zones were all one act each with a boss at the end, the only thing missing would be earning new powers after beating each boss.

 

[Void Animates]

Hello please look at this.
skip to 19:55

what the literal fuck is wrong with you

 

[CEO OF KINGDOM HEARTS]

Honestly, Sonic 4 is at least better than 06'. I played EP II And I loved it. Its a really underrated game.

06 is great wdym

About sonic 4, it's good I honestly like it

Yeah pull out your pitch forks but it's my opinion and I couldn't care less about why my opinion is"wrong"

 

[CyannaJam]

sonic 4 is a weird game imo it tries to be like the classic sonic games with a modern spin but it kinda fails simply due to its monotonous level design, not very interesting levels and it just feels quite bland, specifically episode I
Episode II is a LOT better in terms of gameplay and levels but it still falls flat, it just doesn't have anything you haven't seen before and is missing that sonic charm that made the classic games so good

So let's instead talk about the superior dimps title sonic rush !!!! (jo ke)

seriously tho sonic 4 isn't the worst thing ever and i can see why people may like it, it's just that it feels so weird and bland when compared to literally any other 2d sonic game

The music from episode ii be bangin tho!!

 

[time gear]

06 is great wdym

About sonic 4, it's good I honestly like it

Yeah pull out your pitch forks but it's my opinion and I couldn't care less about why my opinion is"wrong"

Nobody that's being reasonable is going to be pulling out the pitch forks. Just because there are many reasons why it's one of the weakest entries in the franchise doesn't mean anyone who likes the game has an invalid opinion.

 

[CEO OF KINGDOM HEARTS]

Nobody that's being reasonable is going to be pulling out the pitch forks. Just because there are many reasons why it's one of the weakest entries in the franchise doesn't mean anyone who likes the game has an invalid opinion.

Just put it in there because it's happened to me countless times