lol bug
Official Level Design Contest Voting: September/October 2008
- Thread starter FuriousFox
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Ok, I'm back from Youmacon And I've notice a question about my music choice. The music comes from SRB2 demo 4.35 special stage 5.
Regarding my Ring layout, I design ring patterns that make you jump. Why? Well isn't one of the goals of SRB2 to bring in classic Sonic gameplay to the 3D world? If I recall right there were rings you had to jump for in the 2d sonic games.
As for the texture. I took another look and I have to agree with you about the not being able to see the rings clearly. I guess being inspired by demo 4 series special stages was particialy to blame
Regarding my Ring layout, I design ring patterns that make you jump. Why? Well isn't one of the goals of SRB2 to bring in classic Sonic gameplay to the 3D world? If I recall right there were rings you had to jump for in the 2d sonic games.
As for the texture. I took another look and I have to agree with you about the not being able to see the rings clearly. I guess being inspired by demo 4 series special stages was particialy to blame
...
It has come to my attention via my PMing him that fawfulfan did not play the multiplayer levels in a netgame. By the rules, his votes will be discounted unless he plays those levels in a netgame and adjusts the feedback accordingly.
verifiaman
The master of verification.
Ask donovan or jev3. IplayedSRB2WikiSonicMaster said:
Donovan the hedgehog
Member
verifiaman said:
He was on Torgo's Server.
OK, thanks. Still, Dark Warrior and Mystic decided back in JanFeb07 that extreme votes on simply one level in a rotation shouldn't count. Could you vote on the other ones, too? Then surely those multiplayer votes will be counted. =D
I edited one of my Circut scores, check my post.
Alrighty, then. Jazz isn't last anymore, he's tied for last with me...*pwned*
Wee, multiplayer scores. Sorted by score and category.
Match:
Gameboy Valley Zone by SonicMaster 6/10
The black and white vision was a very interesting gimmick. Unfortunately, it is much better suited to gamemode where your contrast vision isn't as important, such as Co-op or Circuit. I had a difficult time discerning players from background.
Perhaps a Super Mario themed co-op level would be more up the alley of this gimmick. It is indeed a cool idea. The map otherwise was a shade above the average match offering, not bad work.
Also, though I'm sure you meant to unsupport OpenGL in favor of your gimmick, note that some of your sectors in the center of the map and one of your Gameboy FOFs appears to be broken. This may simply be a side effect of OpenGL not handling the colormaps properly.
Treehouse Sanctuary Zone by Ice 6/10
A match map haunted by an inefficient center area. Here is the problem: Sonic players have the tendency of becoming caught in a rut as soon as they hit the water. After some underwater combat, I often found myself dodging ring fire just in time to find myself inside one of the four river offshoots, which are only escapable by traveling right back to the middle.
My suggestions to greatly increase flow in the middle:
* Add steps down to the river to allow all players to easily escape without being funneled into the middle.
* Position the angled yellow springs so that they launch players toward the corners of the level instead of toward the river sections.
* Also, if you're going to put railing on your bridges, you need to make them solid. That way you can prevent idiots like me from falling in. =P
Dark Fort Zone by Knockout The Echidna 5/10
Land of awkward jumps. You have various narrow ledges that players use to move higher up on the outside of the arena. Make them four times wider. This will give players more incentive to climb up on the outside ring of the map and collect all those juicy weapon rings you have stashed in the corners. Aesthetically-wise, you need some CEZGRASS sector borders badly. This believe it or not will also make jumps easier, as players will have a better idea of where the edges of your sectors lie.
Submerged Sanctuary Zone by ss47 4/10
You have two things working against you. Cramped space and the water do two things with the map. They restrict flow and slow players down. Underwater maps such as Hydro Plant have the potential of working well, but they have to contain certain features:
* More space to move around in, both above and below the water level.
* Water used as a hazardous area, rather than a central combat arena. Putting powerful weapons down in the water is a great idea, but don't make it the sole focus of the map.
* Place liquid shields on the level to alleviate the problem of stopping dead to breathe bubbles.
Grassy Pier Zone by astar 1/10
Riddled with problems. The wind shouldn't push you as high, fast or far as it currently does. Also, you shouldn't place player starts on something that's going to blow them across the map the instant they spawn. Otherwise, the map is huge, flat and mostly featureless.
Idea has merit, but being blown 4096 fracunits skyward and being expected to hit anything is kind of too much to expect.
CTF:
Lift Bridge Zone by Ezer.Arch 9/10
Best map of the contest, period. This takes a good idea and executes it both cleanly and effectively. The map is simple in design, requires coordination to control the bridge and has effective alternate routes with expected tradeoffs.
Excellent work.
Techno Base Zone by Blade T. Hedgehog 7/10
This map suffers from similar problems as SonicMaster's map (detailed below) except in a less aggravated fashion. The hazardous middle and sides could use a slight degree of toning down in the form of adding small (128 fracunit) ledges connecting the two base interiors if a player misses one of your moving platforms. Also, stationary lasers may suit the sides more, as they will still provide an effective hazard but not be as flow-breaking.
It isn't that the lasers need to be any easier, its just like crushers, they inhibit flow.
Opposition Zone by SonicMaster 6/10
You have a beast of a map here that is held back by three limitations. Two of which aren't entirely your fault:
* Nobody ever can host a 16 player netgame to enjoy this map properly.
* No 8-man team can coordinate themselves at a high enough level to enjoy this map properly.
* Some of the platforming and teleport links are unclear.
In other words, this map has outgrown the current version of SRB2, which is both a blessing and a curse. As much as I'd love my SRB2 clan and I to get together on Ventrillo and scrim against another clan... It just simply doesn't work and there isn't much you can do about it at the moment. The map simply has so many avenues of attack and defense that no average 8-man netgame can possibly handle it. There are a few things you can do to alleviate some of these problems however:
* Put the opposing team's flag above the teleport to their side and change the texture to one of the flashing floor light textures to make it more clear that it is a teleport.
* Remove the "Prismatic Angel" alternate route. It is simply an unnecessary hazard and teams can already attack the other side from three or four different angles.
* Add more intermediate platforms between the layer in line with the flag towers and the ones closer to the ground. This would help connect the level in a vertical fashion, where it desperately needs it.
Also, a map of this size needs Rail rings.
Green Valley Zone by N.Cenz 5/10
Most of your map went completely unused. The straight shot between the bases and the platforms on the back were the only part of the maps that got any use. This caused the map to almost become similar to Iron Turret, in the respect that the jaunt from one side to the other has only one efficient path, which is across a wide open field.
Perhaps making the bases less open and more easily defensible, combined with a less open map center would cause players to have to pick between a potentially dangerous route across the center, or a safer route along the sides or upper middle of your map.
Contaminated Gourge Zone by Shrike 2/10
Same problem as N.Cenz's map except in a much more aggravated form. In this case, the only choice is a one shot deal with platforms suspended over inescapable acid. A map of this degree of linearity combined with the huge distance between bases just simply does not work.
Zero Star Zone by ss47 2/10
There is a reason why Zero Ring Zone was removed from SRB2. Its cramped size and lack of rings were its main problems. In your case, it is simply the crampedness of the map. Also, adhering to the general design of Zero Ring failed you in this respect. My suggestion would be to start fresh with a new idea.
Circuit:
Quicksand Forest Zone by SonicMaster 6/10
Well, its kind of like a thokfest, but at the same time it kind of isn't. It has more vertical variation and requires more timed jumps than most of SRB2's lineup but at its core, the winner is still the one who right clicks the fastest. I wish I could say the quicksand gimmick brought more to the table. I'm still trying to think of what could be done to break the mold on this one.
No Name Forest Zone by Glaber 3/10
Drillfests are still a great deal less fun than thokfests. I have yet to see a NiGHTS map that is without a doubt suitable for racing. Wacky Track is the only one that has even come close. Annoying obstacles combined with the inherent bouncing that is collision detection make the entire four obstacles in this map highly annoying.
Please do us all a favor and leave NiGHTS to single player, where it belongs. I'm more than willing to deal with collision and precise obstacle placement in a lagless environment where the only thing I'm competing against is the clock and an Ideya Capture.
Warped Woods Zone by Jazz rofl/10
I keep getting lost because this map is too linear. =P
Just kidding. In all seriousness, I thought this map was going to be rated down for being hard, not for being confusing.
Overall, I liked the large turnout for this contest. More likely to get more maps you want to play when there are more maps submitted.
Score Edits:
Quicksand Forest Zone: 7 -> 6
Dark Fort Zone: 6 -> 5
Submerged Sanctuary Zone: 3 -> 4
Match:
Gameboy Valley Zone by SonicMaster 6/10
The black and white vision was a very interesting gimmick. Unfortunately, it is much better suited to gamemode where your contrast vision isn't as important, such as Co-op or Circuit. I had a difficult time discerning players from background.
Perhaps a Super Mario themed co-op level would be more up the alley of this gimmick. It is indeed a cool idea. The map otherwise was a shade above the average match offering, not bad work.
Also, though I'm sure you meant to unsupport OpenGL in favor of your gimmick, note that some of your sectors in the center of the map and one of your Gameboy FOFs appears to be broken. This may simply be a side effect of OpenGL not handling the colormaps properly.
Treehouse Sanctuary Zone by Ice 6/10
A match map haunted by an inefficient center area. Here is the problem: Sonic players have the tendency of becoming caught in a rut as soon as they hit the water. After some underwater combat, I often found myself dodging ring fire just in time to find myself inside one of the four river offshoots, which are only escapable by traveling right back to the middle.
My suggestions to greatly increase flow in the middle:
* Add steps down to the river to allow all players to easily escape without being funneled into the middle.
* Position the angled yellow springs so that they launch players toward the corners of the level instead of toward the river sections.
* Also, if you're going to put railing on your bridges, you need to make them solid. That way you can prevent idiots like me from falling in. =P
Dark Fort Zone by Knockout The Echidna 5/10
Land of awkward jumps. You have various narrow ledges that players use to move higher up on the outside of the arena. Make them four times wider. This will give players more incentive to climb up on the outside ring of the map and collect all those juicy weapon rings you have stashed in the corners. Aesthetically-wise, you need some CEZGRASS sector borders badly. This believe it or not will also make jumps easier, as players will have a better idea of where the edges of your sectors lie.
Submerged Sanctuary Zone by ss47 4/10
You have two things working against you. Cramped space and the water do two things with the map. They restrict flow and slow players down. Underwater maps such as Hydro Plant have the potential of working well, but they have to contain certain features:
* More space to move around in, both above and below the water level.
* Water used as a hazardous area, rather than a central combat arena. Putting powerful weapons down in the water is a great idea, but don't make it the sole focus of the map.
* Place liquid shields on the level to alleviate the problem of stopping dead to breathe bubbles.
Grassy Pier Zone by astar 1/10
Riddled with problems. The wind shouldn't push you as high, fast or far as it currently does. Also, you shouldn't place player starts on something that's going to blow them across the map the instant they spawn. Otherwise, the map is huge, flat and mostly featureless.
Idea has merit, but being blown 4096 fracunits skyward and being expected to hit anything is kind of too much to expect.
CTF:
Lift Bridge Zone by Ezer.Arch 9/10
Best map of the contest, period. This takes a good idea and executes it both cleanly and effectively. The map is simple in design, requires coordination to control the bridge and has effective alternate routes with expected tradeoffs.
Excellent work.
Techno Base Zone by Blade T. Hedgehog 7/10
This map suffers from similar problems as SonicMaster's map (detailed below) except in a less aggravated fashion. The hazardous middle and sides could use a slight degree of toning down in the form of adding small (128 fracunit) ledges connecting the two base interiors if a player misses one of your moving platforms. Also, stationary lasers may suit the sides more, as they will still provide an effective hazard but not be as flow-breaking.
It isn't that the lasers need to be any easier, its just like crushers, they inhibit flow.
Opposition Zone by SonicMaster 6/10
You have a beast of a map here that is held back by three limitations. Two of which aren't entirely your fault:
* Nobody ever can host a 16 player netgame to enjoy this map properly.
* No 8-man team can coordinate themselves at a high enough level to enjoy this map properly.
* Some of the platforming and teleport links are unclear.
In other words, this map has outgrown the current version of SRB2, which is both a blessing and a curse. As much as I'd love my SRB2 clan and I to get together on Ventrillo and scrim against another clan... It just simply doesn't work and there isn't much you can do about it at the moment. The map simply has so many avenues of attack and defense that no average 8-man netgame can possibly handle it. There are a few things you can do to alleviate some of these problems however:
* Put the opposing team's flag above the teleport to their side and change the texture to one of the flashing floor light textures to make it more clear that it is a teleport.
* Remove the "Prismatic Angel" alternate route. It is simply an unnecessary hazard and teams can already attack the other side from three or four different angles.
* Add more intermediate platforms between the layer in line with the flag towers and the ones closer to the ground. This would help connect the level in a vertical fashion, where it desperately needs it.
Also, a map of this size needs Rail rings.
Green Valley Zone by N.Cenz 5/10
Most of your map went completely unused. The straight shot between the bases and the platforms on the back were the only part of the maps that got any use. This caused the map to almost become similar to Iron Turret, in the respect that the jaunt from one side to the other has only one efficient path, which is across a wide open field.
Perhaps making the bases less open and more easily defensible, combined with a less open map center would cause players to have to pick between a potentially dangerous route across the center, or a safer route along the sides or upper middle of your map.
Contaminated Gourge Zone by Shrike 2/10
Same problem as N.Cenz's map except in a much more aggravated form. In this case, the only choice is a one shot deal with platforms suspended over inescapable acid. A map of this degree of linearity combined with the huge distance between bases just simply does not work.
Zero Star Zone by ss47 2/10
There is a reason why Zero Ring Zone was removed from SRB2. Its cramped size and lack of rings were its main problems. In your case, it is simply the crampedness of the map. Also, adhering to the general design of Zero Ring failed you in this respect. My suggestion would be to start fresh with a new idea.
Circuit:
Quicksand Forest Zone by SonicMaster 6/10
Well, its kind of like a thokfest, but at the same time it kind of isn't. It has more vertical variation and requires more timed jumps than most of SRB2's lineup but at its core, the winner is still the one who right clicks the fastest. I wish I could say the quicksand gimmick brought more to the table. I'm still trying to think of what could be done to break the mold on this one.
No Name Forest Zone by Glaber 3/10
Drillfests are still a great deal less fun than thokfests. I have yet to see a NiGHTS map that is without a doubt suitable for racing. Wacky Track is the only one that has even come close. Annoying obstacles combined with the inherent bouncing that is collision detection make the entire four obstacles in this map highly annoying.
Please do us all a favor and leave NiGHTS to single player, where it belongs. I'm more than willing to deal with collision and precise obstacle placement in a lagless environment where the only thing I'm competing against is the clock and an Ideya Capture.
Warped Woods Zone by Jazz rofl/10
I keep getting lost because this map is too linear. =P
Just kidding. In all seriousness, I thought this map was going to be rated down for being hard, not for being confusing.
Overall, I liked the large turnout for this contest. More likely to get more maps you want to play when there are more maps submitted.
Score Edits:
Quicksand Forest Zone: 7 -> 6
Dark Fort Zone: 6 -> 5
Submerged Sanctuary Zone: 3 -> 4
You gave a 5 to Wacky Track. 7 is what it ended up with. Actually, Jazz, as much as you don't want it, I'm going to make probably my very last NiGHTS Race for the next contest.
I don't know why I didn't mention this before, but I guess late is better then never. Sonicmaster, votes should be only calculated at the end of the contest. People edit their posts all the time and it will effect the end result. It is much easier doing it at the end since the votes are sealed and can not be changed anymore.
Since this is an official srb2 contest, the decisions of which maps get counted or not will ONLY be given to the SRB2 MB Administrators and Moderators. From now on, the only accepted results will be from a SRB2 MB administrator.
Since this is an official srb2 contest, the decisions of which maps get counted or not will ONLY be given to the SRB2 MB Administrators and Moderators. From now on, the only accepted results will be from a SRB2 MB administrator.
Yeah, I already told you LAST time that your reasons for discounting votes was seedy. You either count them all or you don't count them, period. The only real rule for discounting votes is if they refuse to vote with integers; and even in that case, it can't kill you to just round them.
Thank you. I have always hated the fact that the people in charge of the contest hardly say anything.
Spazzo, I've seen Mystic discount such votes for the exact same reason. That's why. But since the admins and mods will be more actively involved, I won't say anything.
Spazzo, I've seen Mystic discount such votes for the exact same reason. That's why. But since the admins and mods will be more actively involved, I won't say anything.
The only times I would discount votes were the following:
1. The user clearly did not actually play on the gametype specified. By "clearly" I mean "beyond reasonable doubt". It has to either be provable or so completely obvious that there isn't a doubt in anyone's mind. This obviously does not apply to single player entries.
2. The user only voted on a single map in the rotation. It is not fair for someone to vote a high or low number on a single stage to skew the average. Only people who voted for at least 2 maps in a category will be counted.
Honestly, the voting system needs to be cleaned up a little more, especially part 2. However, I'd prefer to count as many votes as can be reasonably counted.
1. The user clearly did not actually play on the gametype specified. By "clearly" I mean "beyond reasonable doubt". It has to either be provable or so completely obvious that there isn't a doubt in anyone's mind. This obviously does not apply to single player entries.
2. The user only voted on a single map in the rotation. It is not fair for someone to vote a high or low number on a single stage to skew the average. Only people who voted for at least 2 maps in a category will be counted.
Honestly, the voting system needs to be cleaned up a little more, especially part 2. However, I'd prefer to count as many votes as can be reasonably counted.
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