Alright, I will. Just like how I don't come by here too often anymore, I have way too much personal life stuff going on right now to do it. I'll come back in a few days hopefully and do so.
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Mystic removal discussion - The good and the bad
- Thread starter Kyvros
- Start date
Alright, I will. Just like how I don't come by here too often anymore, I have way too much personal life stuff going on right now to do it. I'll come back in a few days hopefully and do so.
Seconded, just let the guy be. Don't start some kind of hunt for him, that's almost as bad as some of the stuff the community did way back (raids and such). Don't emulate that.
cookiefonster
Wiki Admin
On the topic of calling Mystic a "talentless hack", while I do not know all that much about the content he made other than the Mystic Realm and Azure Temple, it's important to remember that as unfortunate as it is, being good at creative content and being a civil, reasonable person often don't come hand-in-hand.
You seem to be trying your best to participate in the discussion for the sake of it but I want to remind you that you do not need to participate, specially if what you're gonna suggest is unproductive to the discussion (this is the second time in a row) and this time possibly harmful even. Remember it's okay to just watch from the sidelines. If you really feel the need to say something, please put some more thought into it.
Smash Corliss
~=Fighter=~
I just wanna say that back in the day, you'd probably get a ban for that. I never felt comfortable back in the mid 2000's because of that type of moderation. It always felt like you were constantly walking on eggshells in fear of saying something deemed to be "out of line" or "generally pointless" and being slapped with a ban for it.
That being said, it warms my heart and fills me with confidence that this current generation of staff is so much more reasonable.
I think back on phpBB I don't think infractions even existed to be used. As far as I recall you just got a tempban straight away (I would know, I got tempbanned four times in 2008 so I recall). With the move to vBulletin we got the warning/infraction system, which meant people didn't have to be banned straight away.
Smash Corliss
~=Fighter=~
Yeah I'm pretty sure it didn't exist back then. I was actually somewhat surprised to see it when I started looking at these forums again recently.
Icarus
Phantasy Savior
I am sorry... But I won't support anything that he has done so I won't use nor promote any of his creations.
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I'm going to be fully honest with you guys here. Yes, Mystic was problematic and I say him be rather harsh on people at times. In no way am I defending him, but my main experience with him actually seemed rather nice in a weird way. I asked him for level design tips and he certainly helped make my level not total garbage. I do realise that he's a lot worse than I initally thought, though. Like, really? Accusing someone of being a pedophile, while being addicted to lolicon? I had a good chuckle with that. But yeah, it's a shame that most of the old members have gotten increasingly salty and aggressive over the years. I'm glad that these problems are being solved, hopefully the future of the game will be much brighter.
GameMaster0097
Member
I wish the future of SRB2 and its community good luck. Can't wait to see what progress can be made now that there's less roadblocks in the way.
I'll Begin
🐑✨
All these once perma-banned users coming back all at once. You love to see it.
KobaBeach
The
Hello Naughty Children It's Mystic Oppressing Hours
I've heard a lot of shit regarding Mystic from Roach and I'm kind of not really surprised he's Like This because he's an anime fan and Anime Fans Are Kinda Garbo so. I do want OP to know that the game is in good hands and that the devs will take good care of the game going forward. I am like 150% sure of it.
I've heard a lot of shit regarding Mystic from Roach and I'm kind of not really surprised he's Like This because he's an anime fan and Anime Fans Are Kinda Garbo so. I do want OP to know that the game is in good hands and that the devs will take good care of the game going forward. I am like 150% sure of it.
yooooooo #bringbackgoldenruins2020
Jonster
yes yes hello
As an anime fan, I feel extremely offended. I will now call the cops. *types 420 on phone* 420, watchu pissed about?
All jokes aside, the dev team truly is in a better position. It's pretty much certain that the game will evolve much more freely without 'em. It's just a real nice feeling knowing that it is in the hands of better people, y'know.
KobaBeach
The
I like anime to an extent but I was like re-watching Slayers and I just dropped off after a while because I'm gay and a criminal and bad at watching TV shows. fake anime fan
But seriously, I don't really consider myself an anime fanatic because I'm not the kind of person who just marathons shows except for like Ojisan to Marshmallow. I just like Digimon Tamers and Serial Experiments Lain. I guess you don't need to be that obsessed to be an anime fan but my self-worth is very little.
I don't want to be warned for being off topic, but I don't really know what to add to the topic other than it's really better to have a game without creepy controlling weirdos than a game with creepy controlling weirdos. And that I would absolutely still be down for a Golden Ruins remake with the standards of 2.2, pleASE HIRE ME FOR BETA TESTINGGGG
But seriously, I don't really consider myself an anime fanatic because I'm not the kind of person who just marathons shows except for like Ojisan to Marshmallow. I just like Digimon Tamers and Serial Experiments Lain. I guess you don't need to be that obsessed to be an anime fan but my self-worth is very little.
I don't want to be warned for being off topic, but I don't really know what to add to the topic other than it's really better to have a game without creepy controlling weirdos than a game with creepy controlling weirdos. And that I would absolutely still be down for a Golden Ruins remake with the standards of 2.2, pleASE HIRE ME FOR BETA TESTINGGGG
I might as well give my full opinions on the situation with Mystic, but I'll try to keep this from becoming a mud-slinging post.
The amount of stress this one man has caused this community is insane, to the point where it's only become clear in hindsight. The amount of stress the community tolerated from him helped to ensure that it would all end in a big blow-up like this. I am not blaming anyone aside from Mystic in particular there, staff or otherwise. As MI pointed out, Mystic's cynicism rubbed off on the rest of the community, and it's both dangerous and difficult to try and remove the highly-influential head admin. If done wrong, it could've fractured the community permanently.
In the aftermath of the initial explosion it very quickly became clear that there had been drama brewing in the staff team regarding Mystic and Rob for some time. The full extent still isn't known and much of what has been revealed isn't within the scope of this thread, but I suspect it will become known one day, like much of the drama involving Spazzo. Maybe that information coming to light will invalidate everything I'm going to say in this post, who knows. It is at least comforting to know those who will take hold of development and management will be highly unlikely to repeat Mystic's past mistakes. It will also be interesting to see what alterations will be made to the game's course in the wake of two former heads departing.
Rob's supporting of Mystic's actions was what truly shocked me at the time. I still had a decent amount of respect for Rob when the initial blow-up happened, so to see him sink so low shook me. This is partially due to how staff handled my own mistakes in the past, which often involved Rob specifically. In my experience he was far more practical than he demonstrated on his last night as admin. Mystic was nothing like that. I was not around to witness Mystic's moderation first hand, but their constant cynicism and insistence that this "wasn't their community" does not paint a pretty picture of it. Mystic took moderation very personally, and was willing to hold grudges for over a decade. Drama of this scale was bound to happen, and once Mystic was in a position of power there wasn't much anyone could do to stop it from happening. Speaking up against him or even in favor of him would warrant unmitigated rebuking from him depending on how he selfishly viewed your actions.
Once he was out of power he could've been removed from the community earlier, but with the earlier precedent of tolerating his actions set during his time as head admin and lead developer, nobody would've thought they had reason to. It took him finally going so far as to receive unprecedented backlash from the community and staff alike for him to be banned. Are the people who put Mystic in power to blame? No, they could not have foreseen this kind of drama, especially with how Mystic got worse over time from what I've heard. The only people to blame here are Mystic for being needlessly self-centered and Rob for encouraging and supporting his harmful actions.
My general thesis on this matter is that Mystic created deep systemic issues that would have been very difficult to resolve once he set them in motion without a drama explosion. I believe the community will heal given time, but it's up to the new staff to see that through. Thankfully, the new wind being blown into the sails of SRB2 has been refreshingly different.
The amount of stress this one man has caused this community is insane, to the point where it's only become clear in hindsight. The amount of stress the community tolerated from him helped to ensure that it would all end in a big blow-up like this. I am not blaming anyone aside from Mystic in particular there, staff or otherwise. As MI pointed out, Mystic's cynicism rubbed off on the rest of the community, and it's both dangerous and difficult to try and remove the highly-influential head admin. If done wrong, it could've fractured the community permanently.
In the aftermath of the initial explosion it very quickly became clear that there had been drama brewing in the staff team regarding Mystic and Rob for some time. The full extent still isn't known and much of what has been revealed isn't within the scope of this thread, but I suspect it will become known one day, like much of the drama involving Spazzo. Maybe that information coming to light will invalidate everything I'm going to say in this post, who knows. It is at least comforting to know those who will take hold of development and management will be highly unlikely to repeat Mystic's past mistakes. It will also be interesting to see what alterations will be made to the game's course in the wake of two former heads departing.
Rob's supporting of Mystic's actions was what truly shocked me at the time. I still had a decent amount of respect for Rob when the initial blow-up happened, so to see him sink so low shook me. This is partially due to how staff handled my own mistakes in the past, which often involved Rob specifically. In my experience he was far more practical than he demonstrated on his last night as admin. Mystic was nothing like that. I was not around to witness Mystic's moderation first hand, but their constant cynicism and insistence that this "wasn't their community" does not paint a pretty picture of it. Mystic took moderation very personally, and was willing to hold grudges for over a decade. Drama of this scale was bound to happen, and once Mystic was in a position of power there wasn't much anyone could do to stop it from happening. Speaking up against him or even in favor of him would warrant unmitigated rebuking from him depending on how he selfishly viewed your actions.
Once he was out of power he could've been removed from the community earlier, but with the earlier precedent of tolerating his actions set during his time as head admin and lead developer, nobody would've thought they had reason to. It took him finally going so far as to receive unprecedented backlash from the community and staff alike for him to be banned. Are the people who put Mystic in power to blame? No, they could not have foreseen this kind of drama, especially with how Mystic got worse over time from what I've heard. The only people to blame here are Mystic for being needlessly self-centered and Rob for encouraging and supporting his harmful actions.
My general thesis on this matter is that Mystic created deep systemic issues that would have been very difficult to resolve once he set them in motion without a drama explosion. I believe the community will heal given time, but it's up to the new staff to see that through. Thankfully, the new wind being blown into the sails of SRB2 has been refreshingly different.
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Icarus
Phantasy Savior
I refrained myself from saying it but I agree a lot because this person got that typical anime girl pfp (which is already a red flag for me).
LongcrierCat
Down In It
You mean, after all of this time when I was trying to cope with my feelings by going on Sonic Message Boards that someone like Mystic was there to pick on 13 year old me back when this all first began?
I was just trying to get away on the internet and have a fun time with people instead of being miserable with a family that didn't try to understand my interests and put them down instead of trying to understand why Sonic was my kid obsession. Finding out years later that I *may* be autistic just adds to the hurt.
Like, wow, way to help me out but that's what happens when the full context isn't there and whoops now you're bullying a child who's having a rough time at home as well as the countless others that get mocked just for even being some "weird Sonic fan".
No. Seriously. Enough with that noise.
That made me bury a part of me that I wanted to enjoy. And it only seemed like the fandom was hostile because of people like Mystic who apparently couldn't be assed to not fucking enable pedophilia with loli channels when I as a kid remember when Nazi Tails used to be some edgy kids' fucking avatars.
Yeah, please tell me what going too far was, Mystic. Please do. Especially when I've had nothing but distance between me and Sonic because of how fucking cruel MB culture can get.
No, I'm not okay. I haven't been okay for a long time. It always felt so combatative in the old days and it wasn't fun. It got so bad that the only thing I felt I could do was internalize the shitty behaviour with everyone else.
The more we ditch people who bully kids like this, the better in my eyes.
I was just trying to get away on the internet and have a fun time with people instead of being miserable with a family that didn't try to understand my interests and put them down instead of trying to understand why Sonic was my kid obsession. Finding out years later that I *may* be autistic just adds to the hurt.
Like, wow, way to help me out but that's what happens when the full context isn't there and whoops now you're bullying a child who's having a rough time at home as well as the countless others that get mocked just for even being some "weird Sonic fan".
No. Seriously. Enough with that noise.
That made me bury a part of me that I wanted to enjoy. And it only seemed like the fandom was hostile because of people like Mystic who apparently couldn't be assed to not fucking enable pedophilia with loli channels when I as a kid remember when Nazi Tails used to be some edgy kids' fucking avatars.
Yeah, please tell me what going too far was, Mystic. Please do. Especially when I've had nothing but distance between me and Sonic because of how fucking cruel MB culture can get.
No, I'm not okay. I haven't been okay for a long time. It always felt so combatative in the old days and it wasn't fun. It got so bad that the only thing I felt I could do was internalize the shitty behaviour with everyone else.
The more we ditch people who bully kids like this, the better in my eyes.
Since the thread has slowed down a bit I'd like to finally write my piece. It's brief and not directly about Mystic himself, but the sort of behavior he and others ended up instilling upon the early community always prevented me from ever fully engaging with it. I may seem like a new face, but I've been around since the final demo era (2008 iirc). Seeing how most people behaved here at the time kept me away, and after 2.0 I'd only scarcely follow it and return to play with some friends until Kart's release brought me back in full. It appears I'm not the only one either, as I'm seeing a lot of familiar old faces reappear in this thread.
As far as Mystic's removal itself? Cool. Now the devs won't have to be held back by archaic design decisions that have stained the game for literal decades. I don't even need to mention it's affect on the community, the mere existence and persistence of this thread shows exactly how much damage he's caused.
As far as Mystic's removal itself? Cool. Now the devs won't have to be held back by archaic design decisions that have stained the game for literal decades. I don't even need to mention it's affect on the community, the mere existence and persistence of this thread shows exactly how much damage he's caused.
Moose the Fat Cat
Member
Also important to remember that creative content does not justify being uncivil and unreasonable.
(I'm adding onto your point, not arguing).
There's a tendency to excuse bad behavior because we like their work. Obviously you see this with celebrities all the time. But it scales down, too, to examples like this instance and throughout this thread.
It's a cultural attitude that needs to be examined. The "troubled genius" archetype (generally only applied to white men, not accidentally) is ... well I'm trying to find a less loaded word than "toxic" but how better to describe it?