Mystic removal discussion - The good and the bad

ash

formerly "ash"
Hi. There's a lot I can contribute to this thread, but it'll be a bit.

For those of you who remember me: hey. Send me a DM on here and let's chat. It's been a while. ;)
 

Steelie

If I keep moving, they won't know
I was frankly quite shocked when I've seen the news leaked into the CS Discord. I didn't expect the day would actually come when Mystic has been finally kicked from the community for all the shit he's been doing.

I've always been an infrequent user -- more akin to a lurker than anything -- so I managed to dodge most of the abuse that a lot of people here are describing and quoting, especially those that I wasn't even present for. My expectations of him were pretty low for the past few years, but god damn. I'm glad I can vent my frustrations from watching the shitty treatment of both his colleagues, community members and the game itself without fear of getting banned by him on the spot.

So, in short, thank you for all your contributions to this game, Mystic, but good fucking riddance. May we now see some progress from people who actively care about the game and its community.
 

fickleheart

ms reflec beat stan
It's been alluded to a couple of times here, so I'm here to give the sparknotes version of the event that led to me leaving the dev team. Consider it another voice in the "I'm glad he's gone" dogpile. Content warning under the spoiler for transphobic language:

This is actually pretty relevant to another case about the whole t-slur that blew up in his own face and lost a couple devs on its own.

Really, I left the community for a long time during the time of SRB2 2.1 after Mystic had an argument with toaster and fickle about the t-slur, and his hard-headed refusal to acknowledge that he had done anything wrong in the face of directly insulting several community members and causing, to my knowledge, two developers to resign.

It starts with Mystic's assertation that calling someone a "trap" isn't a slur, that devolves into a three hour argument directly in the official Discord's general channel. It's a total shitfest, I'm at work trying to focus on my job, I make some poorly-worded comparisons to the N-word to try to get it through his skull (that's where one of his quotes in this topic related to it came from! Presumably the other ones were also related to this!), big disaster. (I was asked not to screenshot the starting point of the conversation, but it's publicly available in the general channel for anyone who feels the need to look it up.)

(One might argue "but there are non-transphobic times when you can call someone a trap!" While I think you're incredibly misguided - outside of maybe some very specific friend groups where the word's problems are well-established beforehand - this specific instance isn't one of those situations anyway.)

He decides later, in private, that me stating that "trap" is a slur is "backseat moderation" and "making people uncomfortable".

For the next three months, I'm going back and forth arguing with Prime over DMs to try to resolve the issue. (I'm avoiding specifics here, aside from a vague allusion to a comparison with the word "tsundere", because I suspect Prime was ultimately just trying and failing to preserve balance here, instead of having any ill intentions of his own.) Things go back and forth with zero progress in any direction being made until I get fed up with everything and make an ill-advised edit of someone's post in the Thokker thread for a joke. I'm not proud of doing that, but to be frank it was probably necessary to finally get Mystic himself to actually say something:

unknown.png

unknown.png


(This shit is what all the references to Mystic being "bigoted" are referring to.)

That's when I wrote the guy off entirely. For having one running "Tails is a girl" joke with some friends, I'm being "confrontational". For telling someone that "trap" is a slur when they bring it up (I'm sure without any ill intent or knowledge of the word's connotations!), I'm "constantly pushing trans issues onto others".

Quite frankly, I still held out hope that he'd learn better eventually, and I acknowledge that I hadn't handled things spectacularly throughout. But after everything else coming up in this thread, (and being reminded of #srb2nsfw - god, that wasn't even a secret to anyone on IRC), I'm so glad to see the guy finally out.

(I still haven't resolved my feelings over this. I spent a while in the Kart community solely as a chance to spite the vanilla game that was led by someone I hated so much, and I was pretty terrible in that community as a result! And even after having my name removed from 2.2's credits, the only way I was somewhat able to enjoy 2.2 for a while was by insulating myself to another community and designing a whole new control scheme for the game just as a clapback to some people who decided to make fun of people's reactions to Analog being hidden. Even then, I ain't getting any closer to the community than I have to at this point.)

This is all to say nothing of the actual dev experience. Much of my time in dev was spent trying to come up with a Dark City concept that Mystic wouldn't find some stupid reason to reject. But my complaints about dev under him are insignificant compared to everything else.

---------- Post added at 06:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

Holy fuck Ash is back???
 

Tatsuru

2.3 will have menus
Moderator
Sonic Team Junior
Judge
Seems like Spazzo was right after all.
I didn't dislike them or anything, but we had to listen years ago.

Not so fast. That's a whole another can of worms. Let's keep this about Mystic only.
 

Jorklenis2

Life gives you surprise ... surprise gives you lif
Apparently a couple of people in this community were right about these guys, I always get infractions from them and never from another moderator, in short, abuse and fear that a person will grow up and be better than them, I always suspect something like this against me and now it is a coincidence that they eliminate those guys which I always receive infractions from them without asking me the reason.

It was time for cabinet changes.
 

Princess Plushima

Princess of Dreams
It's been alluded to a couple of times here, so I'm here to give the sparknotes version of the event that led to me leaving the dev team. Consider it another voice in the "I'm glad he's gone" dogpile. Content warning under the spoiler for transphobic language:

It starts with Mystic's assertation that calling someone a "trap" isn't a slur, that devolves into a three hour argument directly in the official Discord's general channel. It's a total shitfest, I'm at work trying to focus on my job, I make some poorly-worded comparisons to the N-word to try to get it through his skull (that's where one of his quotes in this topic related to it came from! Presumably the other ones were also related to this!), big disaster. (I was asked not to screenshot the starting point of the conversation, but it's publicly available in the general channel for anyone who feels the need to look it up.)

(One might argue "but there are non-transphobic times when you can call someone a trap!" While I think you're incredibly misguided - outside of maybe some very specific friend groups where the word's problems are well-established beforehand - this specific instance isn't one of those situations anyway.)

He decides later, in private, that me stating that "trap" is a slur is "backseat moderation" and "making people uncomfortable".

For the next three months, I'm going back and forth arguing with Prime over DMs to try to resolve the issue. (I'm avoiding specifics here, aside from a vague allusion to a comparison with the word "tsundere", because I suspect Prime was ultimately just trying and failing to preserve balance here, instead of having any ill intentions of his own.) Things go back and forth with zero progress in any direction being made until I get fed up with everything and make an ill-advised edit of someone's post in the Thokker thread for a joke. I'm not proud of doing that, but to be frank it was probably necessary to finally get Mystic himself to actually say something:

unknown.png

unknown.png


(This shit is what all the references to Mystic being "bigoted" are referring to.)

That's when I wrote the guy off entirely. For having one running "Tails is a girl" joke with some friends, I'm being "confrontational". For telling someone that "trap" is a slur when they bring it up (I'm sure without any ill intent or knowledge of the word's connotations!), I'm "constantly pushing trans issues onto others".

Quite frankly, I still held out hope that he'd learn better eventually, and I acknowledge that I hadn't handled things spectacularly throughout. But after everything else coming up in this thread, (and being reminded of #srb2nsfw - god, that wasn't even a secret to anyone on IRC), I'm so glad to see the guy finally out.

(I still haven't resolved my feelings over this. I spent a while in the Kart community solely as a chance to spite the vanilla game that was led by someone I hated so much, and I was pretty terrible in that community as a result! And even after having my name removed from 2.2's credits, the only way I was somewhat able to enjoy 2.2 for a while was by insulating myself to another community and designing a whole new control scheme for the game just as a clapback to some people who decided to make fun of people's reactions to Analog being hidden. Even then, I ain't getting any closer to the community than I have to at this point.)

This is all to say nothing of the actual dev experience. Much of my time in dev was spent trying to come up with a Dark City concept that Mystic wouldn't find some stupid reason to reject. But my complaints about dev under him are insignificant compared to everything else.

---------- Post added at 06:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

Holy fuck Ash is back???

Shortly after returning, I did a search for certain terms in the discord to try and gauge how safe it would be to discuss my own experience as a trans person, and stumbled upon the public part of that conversation. It left me feeling fairly nervous for a while, until other community members' actions made me feel more welcome. I had no idea it had gotten that bad behind the scenes.
 

Jorklenis2

Life gives you surprise ... surprise gives you lif
I think it's a good idea to stay optimistic. Give the new people some time to prove themselves. In the end, this is all about learning and having fun.

What happened to me years ago and they never gave me a chance, that's why I disappeared from this community.
 

Charybdizs

>WTB lamp oil
Administrator
Judge
Shortly after returning, I did a search for certain terms in the discord to try and gauge how safe it would be to discuss my own experience as a trans person, and stumbled upon the public part of that conversation. It left me feeling fairly nervous for a while, until other community members' actions made me feel more welcome. I had no idea it had gotten that bad behind the scenes.

I've had several friends of mine message me excited that you returned. I'm glad that, despite the horrible administrative stuff, the better parts of the community (the growing parts, I might add) have been so welcoming and good to you!
 

MellowJacket

The unreliable judge
Judge
Oh wow, Ash is back. Now we just need Bigboi and we've got the true old school final demo crew then. You're an old face I didn't expect to see again.

Thank you for going into depth on Mystic's use of 'trap' there, fickleheart. While I was aware of what happened, as someone not directly affected I didn't really feel it was appropriate for me to take the stage and explain it fully, so thank you for taking the time to elaborate properly.

Shortly after returning, I did a search for certain terms in the discord to try and gauge how safe it would be to discuss my own experience as a trans person, and stumbled upon the public part of that conversation. It left me feeling fairly nervous for a while, until other community members' actions made me feel more welcome. I had no idea it had gotten that bad behind the scenes.
I've been happy to see you back! You're plenty welcome here. And I think we can trust the current moderation to take some more care on these matters. The bar to meet here is listening when someone tells you that they're being directly insulted at least, and that's not going to be very difficult to top.
 

Ace Dragon

Member
When it comes to being a welcoming community, I think we can all agree that Discord has been in need of heavier moderation, with or without Mystic being there.

Examples, seemingly innocuous subjects can easily turn into runaway trains of heated debate, very harsh critique of new content submissions when the OP might never even check discord, a format that favors rapid-fire and rushed replies over well thought-out posts ect... It might be my age of 31, but it goes way too fast for me to consider writing something productive (since a new wall of replies will probably be in place before you press 'enter'). It would be nice if this forum was utilized more as the central place for everything SRB2.

I probably hew a bit more conservative in my views than most here, but I am here for SRB2 and the custom content, I don't think anyone disputes that their affinity for Sonic and the gang led them here.
 

ash

formerly "ash"
Oh wow, Ash is back. Now we just need Bigboi and we've got the true old school final demo crew then. You're an old face I didn't expect to see again.

haha BIGBOI wow that's a name i haven't heard in a long time. hello random internet stranger; i'm not sure i remember you but it's very strange to be back.

And I think we can trust the current moderation to take some more care on these matters.

Current moderation has been absolutely lovely to me; I'm 100% confident in how these situations will be handled in the future. Honestly... it feels almost like I've hopped into a parallel dimension with how well everything's being handled right now.

Re: Mystic, I'm still bubbling about how and what to post. It's very cathartic seeing such a toxic force from this community removed so serendipitously. I was at the receiving end of a lot of abuse/doxxing coming from staff for no real reason (stemming from my original join date when I was only 10 years old), and though I've definitely moved far past it—it's been well over a decade, but as silly as it might sound, there are still lingering scars from my time here (tw: grooming, abuse). I'll go into more detail a bit later, possibly tomorrow.

I've already gotten my peace a long, long time ago with Mystic—he went into detail on my IRC DMs about how awful his life is going, and how his power over children was the only real control he had left. He's just a bitter, old neckbeard who had nothing but this community. Now that it's no longer his, I can't help but feel a bit... sad for him?

But he doesn't deserve your sympathy. None of them do. My era of SRB2 has long been ended, and I look back at it fondly. I'm excited for this new era mostly for the sake of the new community who have so, so, so much potential. Every single one of you should be proud of your accomplishments, building a community that harbors such unbridled creativity *despite* being spearheaded by such stifling leadership.

I will share my story, but for now, I'm just happy to say hello! Though I'm not sure my life is equipped for a ton of SRB2 right now, I hope to enjoy this "Good Future" with you all going forward. :)
 

MotorRoach

Roach when Sonic
Sonic Team Junior
Being under the former leadership the game had, like many pointed out in this thread, was not a good time. It constantly felt like walking on thin ice, because it felt like any sort of disagreement with the higher ups of the team would cause things to explode, and it did not help that Mystic was one guy who would crash on pretty much any hill, no matter how small. Hell, he once tried to accuse me of trying to invalidate his input in the game over him kinda liking the old continue screen when I suggested we made a new proper one (I said "okay, we're not making something just for you, though", which he replied with "I see, you're invalidating my opinion then"). It happened often enough to the point I was left constantly questioning my own approach and just eventually accepting that I was in the wrong like they constantly told me.

It would only be up until I contacted one of the current devs to find out just how much they didn't allow to be disclosed to the rest of the team and just told me in private their own flawed perception of me that no one else would be able to question. Like the time these interactions were clearly taking a toll on me, and I was held in private and told to seek a therapist if I wanted to keep working on the game by Rob, which apparently was never disclosed to the rest of the team (which is convenient, because otherwise how would they avoid people from questioning this excessive measure, right?)

In short? Good riddance. The game was constantly held back because of the awful leadership it had, and now it can finally have its own devs to work on their craft without constant fear.
 
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cookiefonster

Wiki Admin
I must say, as someone very new to SRB2 compared to most people posting here (I never played the game until 2.2 came out and I've been hooked since), it's very surprising to read all these stories, especially from people who used to be in dev. It sounds like so many of you have had awful experiences with Mystic, and I can tell the game and its community have a bright future with such toxic big names out of the picture.
 

SoupBowler

Member
Edit: I am sorry, but I have brought forth an unrelated event into this thread. I will spoiler it as it is not related to Mystic at all and is me venting about something that I should've not brought up. I didn't control myself and I regret it immediately.


Moderator Notice:
*snipped* for being offtopic
 
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VelocitOni

KartKrew Dev
Sonic Team Junior
Kart Krew™️
You said you didn't want to see an optional goofy discord channel and kept making a fuss in public about it. We revoked your access to see it so you'd stop complaining

I actually forgot to reply to your DMs, but read it and gave back perms first. This is extremely common with me, I forget to reply to DMs all the time and you can ask anyone who knows me.

And you have very little context on the entire scenario around Fickle which had little to actually do with the #dev-leaks channel itself


Literally What are you doing here besides making an unrelated attempt to discredit people for the other game over something so petty and little in comparison.
 

SoupBowler

Member
I have done a bad thing, I see that now

I took an unrelated matter in a thread about a completely different person and so I must apologize to all the people I mentioned from it.

I will delete the comment from this thread as it adds nothing and is drama that could potentially damage reputations that are may not be shattered to begin with

Again I apologize

Edit: oh, it was sniped out by a moderator. Well, guess that just leaves the edit of me realizing what I did was wrong and the infraction. I'll try to control myself better.
 
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ThatAzazelFire

Oh it's the Plant guy.
i never really knew Mystic at all, but the little time i saw him something felt off.


it's pretty good that he's finally gone from the team. it makes me feel at ease
 

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