Metal Sonic Character Discussion

CobaltBW said:
Maybe a little bit, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I should be clear upfront that my main concern is not even with Metal Sonic, but with SRB2 as a whole and its accessibility to new players. I believe it may have been Mystic who initially brought this idea up, but I have increasingly grown warm to the idea of replacing Metal Sonic's toolkit with Sonic's, and giving Sonic a different ability set that better matches his status as the entry-level title character.
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Complaining about an ability and just brushing it off onto another character isn't cool. Metal Sonic has hover because well, it fits him, he uses his jet engine to hover. He hovers in his boss battle too.
If the thok is such a bad move, then you can just make a better move. Sonic has had thok for 20 years and then you just give it metal sonic cause "late game character!".
Another thing is, you seem to like the idea of Sonic having the most basic ability, just a standard normal double jump, with a drop dash that... does something? Alot of abilities in this game I sit myself asking "why". "What problem does this ability remedy" or "What does this ability help this character with doing". I love the Sonic Lost World bounce ability, which I advocated for Mighty having, as it helps him with height, and he uses a bounce move in Mania (the Hammer Drop), but sometimes keeping a character simple and less overpowered is better. Alot of Characters have abilities they don't need, and I think the point of a character should be to have a downside, have a struggle with something.

There's also the question "How does this make the character more fun"? which "fun" is entirely subjective. Some people can have a ton of fun playing with Double Jump, which is why you made it a mod i'd assume.
 
I'm a year late to the discussion, but can't hurt to share my thoughts.

  • How much do you enjoy Metal Sonic's gameplay personally?

When it comes to the vanilla cast, he's definitely the one I use the least. His playstyle just isn't as consistently fun to use regardless of the stage. Everyone else still feels as enjoyable to play regardless on the level layout, but Metal can go from being really fun to just make stages a joke with on some levels, to just feeling like a slightly worse version of Tails and Knuckles on others.

  • Would you say that Metal Sonic rewards skillful play?
I guess? On paper, his dash mode and hover should lead to more skillful use of his abilities since both have conditions that need to be met to use them to their fullest. To use boost mode, you have to be able to maintain top speed as much as y'can. To even use his hover, he needs to have some sorta speed for it to even work, as using it at a stand still or without much speed won't get you far, if anywhere. In practice, however, it's more like, you get to use both of these constantly on some stages, while barely being able to at all on others. It's almost like Metal's at the mercy of the stage, and the amount of chances you have to utilize his abilities depends less on how well the player knows how to use Metal, and more on if the stages is or isn't heavily dependent on tight platforming or constant twist and turns.

  • How do you think Metal Sonic contributes to or detracts from overall game balance?
I think Metal just doesn't add much very interesting to the game because of how he plays in practice. You have Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles for if you just wanna go into the game playing the way you'd mostly expect to from any other Sonic game, and there's Fang and Amy, who I feel are the most interesting characters in the Vanilla cast. Both are just inherently more vulnerable than the other 4 playable characters due to the lack of a spin jump or manual roll, so you have to use Fang's Pop Gun and Spring Tail, and Amy's Hammer much more strategically than most of the cast. Metal doesn't really add another unique playstyle despite his boss fight bringing a lot of unique ideas to the table.

  • The development team has been considering whether or not to change Metal Sonic's ability set entirely. If this were to happen, would you miss the current playstyle?
I definitely wouldn't miss the current Metal. He's fine as is, but I do think there's other ways his abilities could be handled to make him a more unique and consistently fun character to play as. Maybe, for example, you could lean a bit more into his roll as a boss character, and let him have his stomach blast or extremely powerful dashmode that makes him practically invincible and blast around at supersonic speeds, but said abilities cost rings and cause him to overheat if he tries to use his strongest abilities way too often. This'd make him a bit more of a risk-reward character where you have to be able to manage how many rings he has and figure out how to get the most out of his strongest abilities without making him overheat. That's just one idea, though, as I'm sure the community's many takes on Metal shows how many other ways his playstyle can be taken.
 
Restless Dipstick said:
I'm a year late to the discussion, but can't hurt to share my thoughts.

  • How much do you enjoy Metal Sonic's gameplay personally?

When it comes to the vanilla cast, he's definitely the one I use the least. His playstyle just isn't as consistently fun to use regardless of the stage. Everyone else still feels as enjoyable to play regardless on the level layout, but Metal can go from being really fun to just make stages a joke with on some levels, to just feeling like a slightly worse version of Tails and Knuckles on others.

  • Would you say that Metal Sonic rewards skillful play?
I guess? On paper, his dash mode and hover should lead to more skillful use of his abilities since both have conditions that need to be met to use them to their fullest. To use boost mode, you have to be able to maintain top speed as much as y'can. To even use his hover, he needs to have some sorta speed for it to even work, as using it at a stand still or without much speed won't get you far, if anywhere. In practice, however, it's more like, you get to use both of these constantly on some stages, while barely being able to at all on others. It's almost like Metal's at the mercy of the stage, and the amount of chances you have to utilize his abilities depends less on how well the player knows how to use Metal, and more on if the stages is or isn't heavily dependent on tight platforming or constant twist and turns.

  • How do you think Metal Sonic contributes to or detracts from overall game balance?
I think Metal just doesn't add much very interesting to the game because of how he plays in practice. You have Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles for if you just wanna go into the game playing the way you'd mostly expect to from any other Sonic game, and there's Fang and Amy, who I feel are the most interesting characters in the Vanilla cast. Both are just inherently more vulnerable than the other 4 playable characters due to the lack of a spin jump or manual roll, so you have to use Fang's Pop Gun and Spring Tail, and Amy's Hammer much more strategically than most of the cast. Metal doesn't really add another unique playstyle despite his boss fight bringing a lot of unique ideas to the table.

  • The development team has been considering whether or not to change Metal Sonic's ability set entirely. If this were to happen, would you miss the current playstyle?
I definitely wouldn't miss the current Metal. He's fine as is, but I do think there's other ways his abilities could be handled to make him a more unique and consistently fun character to play as. Maybe, for example, you could lean a bit more into his roll as a boss character, and let him have his stomach blast or extremely powerful dashmode that makes him practically invincible and blast around at supersonic speeds, but said abilities cost rings and cause him to overheat if he tries to use his strongest abilities way too often. This'd make him a bit more of a risk-reward character where you have to be able to manage how many rings he has and figure out how to get the most out of his strongest abilities without making him overheat. That's just one idea, though, as I'm sure the community's many takes on Metal shows how many other ways his playstyle can be taken.
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I mean I personally wouldn't write an essay about this
but personally I like metal sonic because you can go zoom
 
Pyrakid Wolfo said:
Complaining about an ability and just brushing it off onto another character isn't cool. Metal Sonic has hover because well, it fits him, he uses his jet engine to hover. He hovers in his boss battle too.
If the thok is such a bad move, then you can just make a better move. Sonic has had thok for 20 years and then you just give it metal sonic cause "late game character!".
Another thing is, you seem to like the idea of Sonic having the most basic ability, just a standard normal double jump, with a drop dash that... does something? Alot of abilities in this game I sit myself asking "why". "What problem does this ability remedy" or "What does this ability help this character with doing". I love the Sonic Lost World bounce ability, which I advocated for Mighty having, as it helps him with height, and he uses a bounce move in Mania (the Hammer Drop), but sometimes keeping a character simple and less overpowered is better. Alot of Characters have abilities they don't need, and I think the point of a character should be to have a downside, have a struggle with something.

There's also the question "How does this make the character more fun"? which "fun" is entirely subjective. Some people can have a ton of fun playing with Double Jump, which is why you made it a mod i'd assume.
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This may be on a completely different topic, but all of us were SRB2 newcomers at one point of time, and everyone is saying that SRB2 isn't newcomer friendly, and it needs to be or else people wont join the community and wont like the game and will just forget about it and play something else that they ACTUALLY care about.

But the thing is... why didn't WE quit? I'm sure most of us played Sonic first anyway. I played 2.1.19, but when i played 2.2 i didnt remember playing 2.1.19, i only played greenflower zone act 1 in 2.1.19 i think. I only know that i played 2.1.19 because i uploaded a video of the first act on youtube. 2.2 was fine.

I can't tell what the community thinks about srb2 honestly. They say things that make me think that they dont think the game is as good as it actually is, and then theres people who say its the best sonic game ever.
 
Personally as a Metal Sonic fan, the absolute worst case scenario for me would be for them to take all that potential for uniqueness and creativity and toss it in the trash in favor of just using Metal as a dumping place for Sonic's old moveset with maybe a new coat of paint. That's not to say I'm against giving Metal the thok if need be, but do something more with him than just making him "Old Sonic". Change up how his spindash works, give him a unique breath system, do something neat with his boost mode, change his jump height, etc. There's a lot that could be done with him to keep him creative and unique. I've certainly provided plenty of ideas that could be improved on in that particular direction, as have many others.
 
(Refer to O.P. for the order of questions.)
  1. Lovin' the moveset so far! Quite versatile, but not overpowered.
  2. Of course! Boost Mode, if kept for long, rewards speed and near-invincibility, for the cheap price of losing handling; while the Hover allows you to straight up skip sections if used right.
  3. Not counting Co-op and Competition because yes.
    Ringslinger's all fine and dandy on the balance part. Metal can catch up as easily as Sonic, but doesn't have anything else other than that. Hover can be countered by Tails & Knuckles players.
    Race, though... He's the meta of Race, I'd say. For the reasons listed in bullet point 2.
  4. To be fair, I'd miss the old moveset a lot...
 
I really don't agree on the idea of Sonic's old moveset just being dumped on Metal, if he loses dash mode it'd be a bummer. Perhaps he could be brought closer to how he acts in the pinch phase of his boss fight. He has a peelout ability of some kind (Activated maybe by pressing spin and then pressing jump once boost mode activates?) that can launch him forward into boost mode, when in boost mode walls become somewhat bouncy. Hitting too many walls in boost mode will eventually cause metal to crash, kind of like when he's done dashing around, putting the player in a pain state save for the fact that they don't lose rings, coupled with explosion effects. When the player crashes, they will emit smoke particles for a bit, and while they can still move around as normal, they cannot use the peelout move, or activate boost mode, until this overheated state has passed over, it wouldn't last too long. As for his jump ability, perhaps a momentum based airdrill or something? I dunno.
 
Metal sonic 4.1 said:
maybe, if you help me to make the sprites, i will, i can code, but the sprites are hard to make, can you help me ?
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This isn’t the place to talk about making character mods. This thread’s purpose is to talk about the current Metal Sonic’s moveset and if any changes should be made
 
if they dumped sonic's moveset onto metal
 

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