May/June 2012 Voting

[fickleheart]

...Did you write your scores in invisible ink?

edit: posts like these look really stupid after the posts in question get fixed :/

 

[Prime 2.0]

At least throw some more star posts in there somewhere...one excellent place would have been just before the moving platforms with the spiked undersides.

It takes all of 15 seconds to get to that room, and there's nothing along the way that would feasibly kill you. All that putting a starpost there would accomplish is preventing you from trying the other path to see if you do can do better on it instead... not what I'd call an excellent candidate.

That said, brutal, but well-telegraphed difficulty was the full intention of the level; it's very hard, but you're made well-aware of what you're getting into with each and every room. This is effectively an end-game level; that's why you're given 15 lives to start. If you're having too much trouble with a particular aspect of the level to enjoy yourself, try a different character; the stage is designed to retain some difficulty(and create more in different ways and places to balance it out) with all of them, including Tails, so it's not like you're circumventing the stage by doing so.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Lightless Labyrinth Zone by, ShadowHog - 0/10
Please tell me this was a joke. I'm guessing it was, but I must ask just to be sure. On the off-chance it's not, let me give you a serious critique. This level is absolutely horrible, to the point that I could not finish it. It takes about ten seconds before the gimmick gets old, and twenty seconds before you start grinding your teeth. At one point, I fell into a pit that I couldn't see and had to climb out as Knuckles because I had no idea how else to escape. At other points, those enemies with the glaring eyes flew into me from nowhere. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

There are no pits that are entirely inescapable anywhere in the level. In the off-chance they were one-way, you were supposed to move forward from there, not backward, and generally they have rings indicating you to jump down into them. The only one that is inescapable immediately teleports you out of it when you fall into it.

And no, this wasn't a joke. It was an attempt to see how Who Turned Out The Lights? would translate to 3D, that I wound up liking and turning into a full level.

Did you try the two teleports I listed? I assure you, this map is not the totally unplayable garbage a 0/10 would imply.

 

[fickleheart]

Just in case you guys don't watch every single voting post for updates, I've finished writing mine. Take a look if you care, I guess?

 

[Blade]

I'll add the rest as I play them


Lightless Labyrinth Zone - Shadowhog - 7/10
The Good :
-Unique gimmicks that works pretty well most of the time
-Polyobjects
-The fire enemies
-The Boss
The Bad :
-Parts with more than one fire enemy can get boring.
-A few times I got lost, but this may have been the intent.


Azure Temple Zone - Mystic & Prime 2.0 - 9/10
The Good :
-Fire Gargoyels
-Hard yet fair
-Plenty of secrets
-New enemy is cool
The Bad :
-The swarm of Bubble Buzzes over the death pit jump. I got past it once with out cheating. :(


Sonic's Schoolhouse - Boinciel - 6/10
The Good :
-I'M SMART NOW
The Bad :
-Robotnik was mean and tried to eat my rings. :(


Industrial Valley Zone - Zipper - 5/10
The Good :
-Nothing too outstanding, but from what I played, nothing seemed to be overly bad either, other than...
The Bad :
-The crumbling platform over the pit.
Other :
-You have the basics of level making down pretty good, While this map was pretty boring, I think you might have potentual in the future.


Chemical Facility Zone, Act 2 - CoatRack - 7/10
The Good :
-The Gells.
-Badniks, for the most part.
-The Secret.
-For the most part, the stage is well made.

The Bad :
-Tries to do WAY too many things. Ditch the Reverse gravity.
-Creeper bot seems out of place.
-Second path at the start is still really out of the way.
-Tone down the secret explosions.


Frozen Hillside Zone, Act 2 - Blade - Self
Sorry for how unpollished this is. I had more plans for this, including a Knuckles path, but I've been really busy irl lately. Expect the Lost Worlds version to be changed a lot.

 

[BlueZero4]

Yeah, so I only ended up spending one day on my map, which was just enough to remind me how much fun mapping is. Maybe next contest?

Industrial Valley Zone Act 1 by Zipper - 3/10
I take it you're new here.

Your forms were really hard to read. You picked dark against dark with your textures, so there was rarely a clearly defined edge to make sense of. One alternative, which I heard from SSN, is to use a clearly different flat from the walls. Another technique is to pick a foreground texture and use it to differentiate the important elements from the walls of the room around it.

There were a handful of times you had a room which would change in the middle of your use of it. Parts would rise, water would drain. Those rooms had springs in them which were intended for use after the change, but they were still available before. Sometimes that led to cheap deaths, other times I just got confused. There was also at least one patch of springs that overshot the destination. I trust springs to give me a safe landing. These did not. The room with draining hurtwater wasn't iconic enough for me to realize, after the water drained, that I was still in the same place.

Also, you used death pit a lot. I don't think all those places were challenges which needed to have death as a penalty to failure. Think about which penalties go where.

If I were to leave you with one thought, remember this: Everything you put down in a map is important. It's important because you're making me play through it. Why do you want me to play this challenge? Why do you want me to go through this room? What do you want me to gain from playing your map? It's not a question you can answer in a day.

Azure Temple Zone by Mystic & Prime 2.0 - 7/10
I didn't like this map. The problem, for me, is finding out why.

At first, I thought "I'm not enjoying this because I don't like hard maps." And, of course, this shut up my prying mind for a while. Then I remembered that I really, really enjoyed Egg Rock. Then I thought, "This map might be hard in way that's not as fun." But at first, I didn't know in what ways the map could be better. As the map went on, I noticed these:

I want checkpoints more frequently. I don't like replaying sections that I've already conquered.

I want more time to master the gimmicks. I felt like I had barely enough time to figure out what was going on before you tried to kill me with it. I didn't have time to get comfortable with it. I might have felt better about each challenge if I had already mastered the gimmick before it was time to man up and avenge all 30 lives (at least) that you had taken from me.

I don't like being submerged for the entire level. At the very least, it's easier to grab air by breaking the surface than by waiting for an air bubble. I also feel constantly sluggish underwater, which I want to break free of sometimes.

This is more of a mindset difference, so it's less tangible. I consider gimmicks to be interesting ways of traversing throughout a level. I think you use gimmicks as obstacles that keep a player from succeeding. The latter seems more frustrating to me.

The visuals were also a mess in software. You made a point to pick different textures for different elements, but the lighting and the colormap smushed it all together into one gelatinous (gelespious?) glob, especially at a distance. I played the map mostly in software. I went back into OGL to see how bad it was there, and the problems cleared up nicely. Which is odd, because you and Prime only posted screenshots in software. I'm surprised you didn't catch it yourself.

Sonic's Schoolhouse by Boinciel - 6/10
The answer should've been 6 for all three.

Frozen Hillside Zone Act 2 by Blade - 8/10
There's a lot of polish here. Good socs, lots of spritework, lots of texturework, and the gimmicks are really nice. I really, really liked the music too. The rising snow could've said hello for a few more times and it would've been welcome, though the second and third times would've needed a little variety.

When I loaded up the map, my first thought was, "Oh great, a Blade map." But as I was playing it, I did notice all the original things you put in this map that were new for it. I think what's going on is that you have one aesthetic style for outdoor maps. I think it would be really, really cool if you could change aesthetics for each zone. The indoor area was a nice aesthetic breather because it wasn't all outdoor-map-sy. You make a lot of organic maps.

Also, one last thing. You have a lot of gimmicks here, but I'd like to see them more integrated into the structure of the level. Most of the socwork didn't change the gameplay drastically from the norm. Your gameplay always feels neutral to me because the gimmicks don't change the gameplay enough from the norm.

Chemical Facility Zone Act 2 by CoatRack - 8/10
Everything here is really nice. Really well done.

I'd like to see the bouncy slime used a little bit more; it's really fun. The time challenge was too hard for me. Also, I don't really think you should expect most players to intuitively know the trick with the water physics near the end.

It still feels really standard, though. I wonder, what extra could you give it to add that little kick it needs?

Lightless Labyrinth Zone by ShadowHog - 8/10
Brilliant.

I didn't like getting lost (which happened too much, especially in the lower route), and I didn't like dieing to the boss. Everything else was brilliant.

 

[CoatRack]

Single Player:

Industrial Valley Zone Act 1 by Zipper - 5/10
I remember playing this level in a early stage, so I sorta knew what to expect. Although a lot of the quirks that was present back then are still there.

First off, the textures you used in the cave sections make it really hard to tell where the next platform was at, try using a new texture for the sectors that you are ment to jump on that doesn't blend in with the grey walls. One thing I am glad to see removed was the rope-hangs from the caves, makes the level much more enjoyable if you ask me.

Then there's that slime room, while the alarm sound does help warnd the player, I still think it would have been better if a rumbling sound would have played. Also, I would have liked it if you slowed the slime down and put in platforming in that part, and not just send the player onto sets of springs.

Then there is the metal base part, boy was that confusing. The room with the bounce-pads had me stumped for a long time, I thought the pads would have hurt me because of the texture you used. But I then found out they bounced me after I thoked at one, only to land in the acid below and die. It took me awhile to notice the yellow spring you put on a small platform that I assume was ment to allow me to get on the pads and made my way out. Only to be met with the room with the two pistons, wich also confused me. After running around looking for something to trigger the door I jumped on the piston without the spring, I was quite shocked when it moved. The idea was neat, but you could have made it easier to tell the player that was what he was ment to do.

So, in a summery.

Good:
-For the most part, the layout and platforming of the level is decent.
-I liked the gimmicks in the base part, they just need some work to introduce them better.

Bad:
-Cave part's textures made it hard to tell where the next platform would be, making falling to my death way too easy.
-The way you introduced things was rather poor, seeing most of the time it was easy to die if you messed up.

Azure Temple Zone by Mystic & Prime 2.0 - 9/10
Comments coming later.

Sonic's Schoolhouse by Boinciel - 6/10
Joke aside this level was decent, it had platforming, it had rings, it had hazards. But even with that, it was very basic.

I think it would have been funner if you would have mixed the puzzles/minigames/whatevers in with some platforming, it would have made the level more enjoyable.

Anyways, the easiest way for me to sum this up is in a list.

Good:
-The joke was amusing for the most part, even though it was short-lived.
-BAD EGGMAN, STOP TRYING TO EAT ME!

Bad:
-The level was boring in the platforming department.
-The puzzles/minigames/whatevers were too short-lived, more could have been done with them.

Frozen Hillside Zone Act 2 by Blade - 7/10
Comments coming later.

Chemical Facility Zone Act 2 by CoatRack - Mine
Welcome to another edition of CoatRack's Rushed-to-be-sent-in Contest Levels, on today's menu is El-Facility-of-Chemicals!

I would have liked to do much more in this level, in reality I only got to scratch the surface with ideas I wanted to do with the chemicals and reverse gravity. See, I added it in because I had some rather interesting plans for it, but as the deadline got closer I was having to rush the map. So the current boring/annoying sections are there because I had to add in some easy-to-do parts to get the level done. On one of the parts you noticed the room with orange gel on the top and bottom, that was intended to be seen again in a more complex way later on.

But as it is said in the sub-title, this is a demo. I have much more planned for this level, so expect some rooms to be cut out/redone in Chaos Domain.

Lightless Labyrinth Zone by ShadowHog - 8/10
This level was quite fun, the idea was neat and executed nicely. Although it did get a bit repetitive, but it was never enough to make me loath the level.

The level's platforming is in the basic area for the most part, that is until you go deeper into the level. And then I am met by the Mystic Mansion-like polyobjects, which made me smile a mile. I really REALLY wished it was used more, but I guess it is made up in the way you used it. I mean, what's to hade about a room filled with them?

And then there's the boss, wich is by all means a glorifed Eggmoblie. Don't get me wrong, the boss was enjoyable. I just wished it would have had more original attacks, like a jumping attack that would have gave out a shockwave. But one thing I did notice is that the boss was short lived, I am note sure if I was on a time limit or not. But when I landed a few hits on him the screen went white and I found myself ontop of a ruined building, if that was the way the boss was ment to die then it was very anti-climatic. I would have much rather SEE the explosion than just a "white flash! here's the end, get going.".

So, my thoughts in short are.

Good:
-Creative gimmicks that were executed nicely.
-A neat boss, even though I think more could have been done with it.
-Poylobject platforming.

Bad:
-It was sometimes hard to figure out just what I needed to do to move on, like the room with the button that was black.
-The boss' death was very anti-climatic, and left me with a "well, that was silly" feeling.

Match:

Green Match Zone by Root - 3/10
Welcome to the world of mapping, the first step to becoming a skilled mapper is to make a map (who would have guess!). And you picked the easiest game mode to map for, IMO.

When the level loaded up I was happy to see deafed rings, but that happiness was quickly snatched away when I saw how cramped the level was. And you proceeded to take more when I jumped into the water looking for some items, only to fall into a pit that I never saw coming.

Looking for a way to keep myself out of the water I went to explore the caves, which IMO, one of the better parts of the map although it was more cramped. I was disappointed to find two scatter panels in the cave, what happen to bomb, or the other weapons? Going outside again I noticed the same thing, there was two of the same panels, this time it was Auto though.

Even with all these gripes I have with the map, it was still fun to play in sorta. Although most of the fun comes from the fact I enjoy attacking people from nowhere, which is easy thanks to how cramped of the level is.

In summery, here's my thoughts:

Good:
-Basic knowledge of how to make FOFs and water, still need to add a color map to the water though.
-Deafed rings, it's a rare to see a beginner's map with them.

Bad:
-Cramped, makes it hard to move around the level without being turned into Swiss cheese.
-Death Pit hid under a non-translucent water block, a cheap death in other-words.
-Only two of the seven weapon rings are available to be used, making the match not as fun.

Marble Zone by CoatRack - Mine!
Meanwhile, back in 1991...
Marble Zone, the land of lava and ruins. Ready to turn all it's visitors into crispy critters or pancakes, or some other object you do not wish to be turned into.

This level was something I made in a few days, although the layout was made in about a day. I spent most of the time fine-tuning the level and detailing it, trying to give off that "Sonic Generations" feel while trying not to stray too much from the original.

I am quite pleased with how it turned out, the only way it could have been better is if it had an HD version of Marble Zone playing.

Capture the Flag:

Glades of Serenity by Scizor300 - 8/10
Fun level, not much else to say really besides the fact there are too many ring monitors in the flag room.

Fungus Forest by RedEnchilada - 8/10
Not much to say on this level since I didn't get much time to play the level, but it played good enough.

 

[Dr. Gravity]

Got internet working here, downloading the pack. This Contest looks nice. Kthxbai

 

[Monster Iestyn]

Made up my mind to post some scores for the SP division after all.

Industrial Valley Zone Act 1, by Zipper - 5/10
Azure Temple Zone, by Mystic & Prime 2.0 - 8/10
Sonic's Schoolhouse, by Boinciel - 3/10
Frozen Hillside Zone Act 2, by Blade - 7/10
Chemical Facility Zone Act 2, by CoatRack - 6/10
Lightless Labyrinth Zone by, ShadowHog - 8/10

(Might add some reviews later, if at all)

 

[filio]

why am I reviewing this oldc

Singleplayer;

Spoiler

Lightless Labyrinth - 2/10
It was lacking in everything that could make it fun at all. The fire badnik puzzles
were stupidly reused (and without difficulty when you have an elemental shield),
and having a gigantic jump to pass the long moving platform section sucked. It
was extremely easy to get lost, and you can never see any of the buttons. At least
make it show light come down on the button and color it in.
The boss is what gave it the second point. It was at least pretty fun to fight it. Made it
easier with the elemental shield, as well, but still served a challenge. Sadly not enough reward.
The song for the labyrinth is so freaking annoying.

Azure Temple - 9/10
Oh god that is difficulty right there. It is just so rewarding to have finally gotten past that. The 15 lives was surprisingly enough, although it did take me 25 minutes. I got sick of seeing everything as the same color, and some checkpoints just not being there. And I also see someone likes themselves some Zelda.
I was a bit of an arse when I first reviewed this, the part of it being long as heck and as hard made me want to not play it any further. Great job, just make it so that puzzles don't take forever.

Chemical Facility Act 2 - 8/10
Props for using the Final Egg song. :P
This felt pretty fun. There were some placement errors,
some dick moves, etc. But it still held up. I really don't have too much to say here.

Frozen Hillside Act 2 - 9/10
Man, I liked this a lot. Could have used a checkpoint in one spot, but this was
great. I found a snowy level that didn't get me complaining about slippery platforms.
The only things I could think of is changing some enemy placement,
making the song loop better, and also a bit more gimmick-wise.

Industrial Valley Act 1 - 2/10
Looks pretty much like big, empty rooms. It's linear, and there's a lack of rings and badniks.
It's just not that fun, and I have not much else to say about this.

Schoolhouse - 5/10
Could have been longer. It was based off of humor so I have to keep it from being the best. :P
Also, Dr. Robotnik scared me the first time I saw him. I don't even.

If I ever get to see a server hosting Match and CTF maps I'll rate those as well.

EDIT: WAIT FIXED AZURE TEMPLE

 

[Thompson]

Industrial Valley Zone: Act 1 - Zipper
Um. I didn't enjoy this very much. This map has the most flaws in this contest, and I can give out examples such as a stupid crusher simultaneously playing the crushing sound and moving at the same time, clashing textures, and how this lacks on direction. What I mean of lack of direction, is that I don't know where I am going. I have to look around, and skim the area, and then it's like, "Oh. I go through here." What could probably solve this issue is to get rid of all that extra space you have lying around, or have a purpose for it, otherwise it confuses the crap out of me. Other than that, this is pretty average. 5/10

Azure Temple Zone - Mystic & Prime 2.0
After reducing the resolution to the lowest, exiting out my internet browser, deleting every single file except srb2.win and this map, I finally got a decent framerate gameplay out of this...Just exaggerating, but this was the most hardest, and longest level I've probably ever played up to date. I haven't explored the whole level, so my rate probably won't be accurate.

But due to my 30 minute gameplay, what I have observed from this was that this was very frustrating as well. I didn't feel like 15 lives were enough. I had to cheat my way through most of the level. god/noclipped just to try the jumps again. Mystic why did you do this to us? Why isn't there more checkpoints? I'm not sure how to rate this. The difficulty of the level has effected my rate on this, because I have a huge tendency to rate it lower than what it should be.

Things that I did enjoy about this though is the music, atmosphere, SOCs and some of the puzzles. But the way you set the platforming, especially when you set obstacles in the mix was just... hell for me. But that's just about it. 8/10

Sonic's Schoolhouse - Boinciel
There isn't any problems with this. There isn't anything great to remember. I won't let difficulty, length or anything outside the box effect my rate. This is just playable with a few cute jokes. 6/10

Frozen Hillside Zone: Act 2 - Blade
I guess this was cool. Same objects, enemies, gimmicks, and old stuff that we've all seen before from Act 1. The only thing that's different is the atmosphere, and geography... And there's nothing wrong with that except it's nothing exciting anymore.

The zone retains its flawlessness. There's many bonuses. The palace is new, with about one memorable thing such as the rising snow. That's pretty much it on that. 8/10 Oh, and one more thing... please you and your brother fix your music loops.

Chemical Facility Zone: Act 2 - CoatRack
First thing I want to mention, is what I said to Blade after his review on his map. Fix the music loop.

Now, this is a pretty decent map on your hands here Coat. There's a few minor flaws, that's not really something you should fix, but maybe just for the players, cause this bothered me. The goop that the blue turret(I think green too) projects is some type of anti-gravity goop that I don't think would make sense...even in a toony video game. Okay, I lied. You should fix it. Keep the enemies away from the edges of cliffs over something you could die in. It ruins the gameplay experience. This happened twice to me, and I got frustrated with this.

One other thing I remember is this timed button/gate sequence that's way too short in duration, and I played this was Sonic, so I speak for all of my Sonic players. If not executing jumps/thoks a certain way, timed right with the first continuous floor moving platform, it's nearly impossible to reach the next area without the gate closing on you. So may want to make the time sequence a little bit longer there Coat.

But other than these problems, everything else is just about right. To me at least. 7/10

Lightless Labyrinth Zone - ShadowHog
I LOVED this map! Except it's dark! Which is a major problem that kills this map, and reduces it's rate than what it should have been. After reading some other user's reviews on this map, they've experienced the same problems I have, such as the unseen ghost crushers...which wasn't really hard, except the last 3 crushers you put together for some reason. Finding buttons, which I REALLY had an issue with. Like, they don't stand out quite enough that it's an actual button unless if you accidently run into it, which is stupid.

Another thing I'd like to critique is the kill-all-enemy areas. I didn't actually know it was a gimmick like that until I finally realized I was running around in circles like an idiot while the shadow/fire enemies laughed and bullied/raped the hell out of me until I finally got tired and stood up to them and thought it was the only thing to do so I could find my way around peacefully. I don't really like that idea either. Nothing told me of this, so I found out once again, on accident.

The boss. You're a genius at SOC'ing and executing the entrance for it. Which was pretty damn great. This left a smile on my face as I exit the map, which probably made me love the map. It made me forget about everything else that bad about the map, but when I talk about it, I remember. But just as a player, it would leave me speechless about the stage. So some good mapping technique there. I think this deserves a 8/10. I really liked everything except the things I mentioned.

The majority of the SP contest was pretty great. Great job everyone!

 

[Shiron]

Why are you all praising Lightless Labyrinth so much? It's just one gimmick slightly enhanced as you go through the level. It's creative, but it really gets old.

I thought you people hated Tortured Planet for being a gimmick fest.

 

[D00D64]

We hated Tortured Planet for being an awful gimmick fest, among other things. Lightless Labyrinth Zone has quite a few issues, but I'd certainly pick that over anything TP has.

 

[Liliam]

Azure Temple - 7/10
It's hard, but it's not that fun. It makes extremely difficult challenges and not give
you a checkpoint so you just fall into a pit and have to try again. Egg Rock did
challenge right, here it's jumping to a platform with a spindash and a thok and
hope you land on it, then doing that again for a checkpoint.

I should note that at no point does the stage require you to use the spindash, so this is a case of the player doing it wrong. That being said, the segment you refer to is, well within the theme of the stage, considerably difficult, and definitely not easy for the more novice of players. HOWEVER, it is also a completely optional obstacle as it's only one of the two choices presented right at the start of the stage, so it's not such a brick wall as you're describing it.

 

[filio]

I should note that at no point does the stage require you to use the spindash, so this is a case of the player doing it wrong. That being said, the segment you refer to is, well within the theme of the stage, considerably difficult, and definitely not easy for the more novice of players. HOWEVER, it is also a completely optional obstacle as it's only one of the two choices presented right at the start of the stage, so it's not such a brick wall as you're describing it.

Man I made a terrible review, I just finished the level and updated it. Hopefully I don't start worshiping you.

 

[JEV3]

Preliminary comments on Azure Temple...

The first time I played it was on the heels of a few other contest levels so I wasn't really wild about putting so much effort into it, but I kept coming back to it. Considering how much of my attention span for games has gone away, that alone says something. The gimmick of the trapgoyles (as Prime seems to be calling them) is really interesting and doesn't feel gimmicky. I had gotten the impression with the way it had been hyped that the level was more about avoiding those things than platforming, but they are really part of the platforming gameplay. This stage also really fleshes out the gimmick.

I finished the level by taken the puzzle path, which I'm convinced must be the easy way out. Because as hard as the level was, once I got to the end sign I was left thinking "that's it?". I had six lives left, I actually would have felt more rewarded if there was a grand finale area near the end I had to pass maybe even if it was more "wow" than difficult. I'll have to play the other path though to see if my suspicions were correct about the difficulty of the stage.

So far the highlight of the level for me was a room filled with bubble buzzes where I found myself hopping corners in time to avoid fireballs... I actually kinda wanted the chance to use the trapgoyles to kill the bubble buzzes. I think their movability would make this a great co-op level, where one player can move a particularly dangerous trapgoyle out of the way for a less experienced one to make it past. The level just begs you to go back and try to get back through those hallways more masterfully so there's good replay value there.

So far it seems to be living up to the hype.

 

[MascaraSnake]

Before I finish my reviews, there are a few things I want to address:

B) Halfway through the right hand path, in the large room full of Buzz which do nothing to mess you up, there's one loner right at the top of the last jump that serves no other purpose than to kill the unaware player the first time he gets there. It's dumb and makes it the air bubble patch there useless because you can't use it until you kill the Buzz, breathing the bubble in the process.

Amen to that. When beta testing the stage, I pointed this out but couldn't convince him to remove it. Maybe you can.

Azure Temple Zone, by Mystic & Prime 2.0 - 4/10
Unfortunately, too cheap to be fun.

I knew somebody would bring up the word "cheap" in the context of this stage, so let me ask you this: What does "cheap" mean to you? I consider a challenge to be cheap when a) it doesn't give me enough time to react to it or b) I can't reasonably be expected to know what to do. An example of a) would be the crumbling platforms in Industrial Valley. I don't know that they will crumble until I step on them and inevitably die. An example of b) would be the underwater white liquid portions of Chemical Facility 2. I have no way of knowing how the physics change in white liquid until I try it out, and since there's a death pit right in front of you, jumping may result in death. Now while Azure Temple is brutally difficult, I can think of only two isolated instances where it's cheap, one of which I quoted above and the other of which I will mention in my review. Are you sure you're not just confusing "cheap" with "too difficult for me to enjoy"? Which is a perfectly valid opinion, but it gives a very signal to the level designer: The former means there is a flaw with the level's design that can be fixed, the latter means that it's a matter of personal preference that can't be changed.

Another thing I saw mentioned a lot was the triple crusher in Lightless Labyrinth. Personally, I didn't have any problems with it. Because there is no light, I assumed there is no safe spot and to get across I have to charge a spindash and release it when all the crushers are up, which wasn't that hard. Did I miss something?

 

[Charybdizs]

Why are you all praising Lightless Labyrinth so much? It's just one gimmick slightly enhanced as you go through the level. It's creative, but it really gets old.

I thought you people hated Tortured Planet for being a gimmick fest.

We hated Tortured Planet for being an awful gimmick fest, among other things. Lightless Labyrinth Zone has quite a few issues, but I'd certainly pick that over anything TP has.

No, we hated tortured planet for being brainless monotony. Take a lesson from the game portal. Imagine in test chamber #1, you find a puzzle. A companion cube sits on a pedestal to your left, and you have to lift it, jump across a slime pit, and put it on the button to open the door. Through the door, you find Test Chamber #2. In it, a companion cube sits on a pedestal to your left, and you have to lift it, jump across a slime pit, and put it on the button to open the door. Through the door, you find Test Chamber #3. In it, A companion cube sits on a pedestal to your left, and you have to lift it, jump across a slime pit, and put it on the button to open the door. In it- NO WAIT WHAT?

This isn't how Portal works! In Portal, you're challenged in each room, as the concepts and tools you learned are used in new ways, so that it stretches your brain a little more, each time. And when one thing gets boring, it brings in a new gimmick entirely!

But Tortured Planet doesn't do that. Instead of using gimmicks in interesting and intuitive ways, it throws things at you over and over and over again. My first example would be the gravity flipping water room from spacewalk zone. It's simple as standing on a platform, hitting a button, flipping, and jumping over a death pit. Now, I imagine after the first time this happened, it would be a good idea to incorporate the platforms in different patterns, some falling and some rising, so that it keeps the gimmick fresh and interesting? NOPE. Fawfulfan merely copypasted the gimmick for... 5 more turns? Typical. Another example. The light room in Spacewalk Zone. The game throws the same gimmick at you, over and over again, with no variation in platforming, or the gimmick itself. This is probably the most universally hated gimmick in the level, and yet Fawfulfan keeps it in there for no apparent reason besides stubbornness. There are many other examples within the game, just take a look. Another great example is the wind pipes in Spacewalk Zone. Here you have an entirely new gimmick, suspended over a death pit. Your penalty? DEATH. In no way is the player taught that there is a vacuum force. Hell, this gimmick is even an INTERESTING one, balancing the momentum with keeping away from being sucked to your death! Surely he could have introduced it in a simpler, less punishing form, earlier on? He could have even done more with it as it is, but no, it appears once on a brutally hard scale, and leaves, just like that.

Everyone remember this lesson, because it's an important one. CoatRack needs to learn a little from it in Chemical Facility. Though instead of doing hard things, CoatRack tends to put one easy gimmick forth and then abolish it with no further development.

 

[MascaraSnake]

CoatRack needs to learn a little from it in Chemical Facility. Though instead of doing hard things, CoatRack tends to put one easy gimmick forth and then abolish it with no further development.

Now this is interesting. Mind giving some examples?

 

[Fawfulfan]

Now that's an interesting take on what's wrong with Tortured Planet. I've always felt that something like that was the main problem, but never have I seen it put so clearly.

In retrospect, Tortured Planet probably crashed and burned because I wanted its main appeal to be how much content was in it. And when I couldn't come up with the content, I just rehashed what I thought had already worked. I totally ignored the law of diminishing returns; people have less fun when they see a puzzle the second time around. And of course, in the case of Spacewalk, virtually none of the gimmicks were as interesting as I thought they would be in the first place.

In my new projects, I'm trying to apply what I learned in Tortured Planet. Though some gimmicks certainly appear many times, I try to use them in original ways. Plus I don't copypaste giant structures anymore.