Is there anything that's just impossible in SRB2?

[MrBreada]

Other than ports, what is there that's simply impossible to implement in Sonic Robo Blast 2, be it Doom engine restrictions or whatever.

I think that:

• A perfect replica of the Genesis games' gameplay are impossible. The reason why I think so is because of the physics in SRB2. I feel like I'm playing a different game when I play Sonic the Hedgehog 2, then go back to the SRB1 remake. Honestly, would SRB2 Sonic successfully be able to go through the original Green Hill Zone - Act 1?
• Voice chat is impossible. I mean, it's Doom. Although more tedious, I'd rather use Skype and then open SRB2.

So, what do YOU guys think/know is simply impossible in Sonic Robo Blast 2?

 

[wolfs]

Keep in mind that, when it comes to code, nothing is exactly impossible. Some things are just a giant pain in the ass to do.

 

[MrBreada]

Some things are just a giant pain in the ass to do.

So there's hope for 2Fort in SRB2, assuming there's a patient enough WAD developer? Woohoo!

 

[clairebun]

Nothing is technically impossible, but there are a lot of things that just aren't going to happen. It's important to realize that most of the problems SRB2 face persist due to the time it takes to fix them.

A perfect replica of classic Sonic gameplay is possible, but consider the major obstacles that this entails. You would have to:

* Program slopes
* Program momentum physics for interacting with slopes
* Draw tons of new sprites for each character to accommodate for running upside-down/sideways from all angles.

So yeah, that's totally doable, but not only is this already a timesink for the vanilla game, it would multiply the time it takes to create a good character wad, and creating slopes creates new design challenges in how the camera interacts with the player and whatnot.



If someone's dedicated enough, they could certainly program voicechat into the game. Since this game is noncommercial though, there's virtually no chance of that happening.

 

[MrBreada]

So, what you guys are saying is that it's not impossible, just not gonna happen anytime soon? Seems reasonable.

Spoiler: My hopes and dreams

(Now I also have hope for a Doom-esque CTF/Match mod where you have your hand in front of you and it looks different depending on what ring you use.)

 

[TelosTurntable]

Nothing is technically impossible, but there are a lot of things that just aren't going to happen. It's important to realize that most of the problems SRB2 face persist due to the time it takes to fix them.

A perfect replica of classic Sonic gameplay is possible, but consider the major obstacles that this entails. You would have to:

* Program slopes
* Program momentum physics for interacting with slopes
* Draw tons of new sprites for each character to accommodate for running upside-down/sideways from all angles.

So yeah, that's totally doable, but not only is this already a timesink for the vanilla game, it would multiply the time it takes to create a good character wad, and creating slopes creates new design challenges in how the camera interacts with the player and whatnot.



If someone's dedicated enough, they could certainly program voicechat into the game. Since this game is noncommercial though, there's virtually no chance of that happening.

But remember that the characters already have 8 Frames of rotation, and RotSprite Does rotation of sprites pretty damn well.

 

[Larz T]

But remember that the characters already have 8 Frames of rotation, and RotSprite Does rotation of sprites pretty damn well.

For anyone not knowing what RotSprite is and rather not download the application to find out, here's the link to RotSprite on Sonic Retro: http://info.sonicretro.org/RotSprite

Also keep in mind Phil that RotSprite might be easy for the side angles but for every other angle, there will have to be new sprites.

 

[fickleheart]

But remember that the characters already have 8 Frames of rotation, and RotSprite Does rotation of sprites pretty damn well.

RotSprite wouldn't even come close to reaching the amount of angles you'd need for full classic-style gameplay in 3D. Here's why:

Currently, sprites in SRB2 have full rotations for one orientation: pointing straight down. This takes eight frames, or five if they're symmetrical and can be flipped to save space.

To get a similar amount of representation in all other orientations, you'd need eight sets of these rotated along the X axis, and then eight sets of those rotated along the Z axis. Now, a lot of those will be the same thing, so you won't quite need that many, but let's graph out what that would look like:

That's a hell of a lot of lines. Now, you can get some of those by rotating other sets, true. That still leaves you with this many to do:

Still five orientations of unique spritework that need done. With eight angles for each. Now, we can assume that the top-down and bottom-up orientations can be taken care of with one sprite rotated for each angle, so those only need one each. The others are still going to need at least five each, though, which would leave us with 17 unique angles that need drawn for every single character sprite. That's a hell of a lot. Over three times as many as we need right now, even!

Now, granted, you only really need all those extra angles for walking and running. Still, twelve extra angles times twelve frames for walking and running is 144 extra sprites you're asking to be designed for every single character. That's around half of the total sprites characters currently take.

 

[SSNTails]

Believe it or not, the NiGHTS sprites actually support this. But nobody has been crazy enough to try and make ALL of the sprites.

 

[Zubat]

But nobody has been crazy enough to try and make ALL of the sprites.

(I'm kidding)

 

[Sapheros]

What about actual offline bots to play against? I'd rather play 2.1 match with a bunch of mindless ring throwers than the hardcore players from 1.09.4. I think it could be fun to play with a not of my own to co-op with.

Edit: also in case the player doesn't have internet and no one to play with in srb2.

 

[Monster Iestyn]

Believe it or not, the NiGHTS sprites actually support this. But nobody has been crazy enough to try and make ALL of the sprites.

...

...I'm not surprised honestly. And that's only for one frame! And that's not even finished!

(Funnily enough, I quickly drew all that in MSPaint one time some months back, just to drive in why we shouldn't support sideways gravity. I really need to do better things with my time!)

 

[Lat']

I know loops are never ever gonna be a thing for the reasons MI and Red mentionned up there, but I think it would be more simple if the camera just sets itself to a point where you see the character from the side, from there, the only things the game has to do is to rotate the sprite accordingly to the loop during them. (Same would go for slopes.)

...The -even simplier- thing would be to just stick to MD2s, which (unless I'm wrong.) were inclinating depending on the slope back in CB.

Back to the topic itself, I think everyone here said exactly what was needed to be said about it, nothing is really impossible when it comes to code, it's just sometimes a big pain that shoves down your ass to do them.

 

[TelosTurntable]

RotSprite wouldn't even come close to reaching the amount of angles you'd need for full classic-style gameplay in 3D. Here's why:

Currently, sprites in SRB2 have full rotations for one orientation: pointing straight down. This takes eight frames, or five if they're symmetrical and can be flipped to save space.

To get a similar amount of representation in all other orientations, you'd need eight sets of these rotated along the X axis, and then eight sets of those rotated along the Z axis. Now, a lot of those will be the same thing, so you won't quite need that many, but let's graph out what that would look like:

That's a hell of a lot of lines. Now, you can get some of those by rotating other sets, true. That still leaves you with this many to do:

Still five orientations of unique spritework that need done. With eight angles for each. Now, we can assume that the top-down and bottom-up orientations can be taken care of with one sprite rotated for each angle, so those only need one each. The others are still going to need at least five each, though, which would leave us with 17 unique angles that need drawn for every single character sprite. That's a hell of a lot. Over three times as many as we need right now, even!

Now, granted, you only really need all those extra angles for walking and running. Still, twelve extra angles times twelve frames for walking and running is 144 extra sprites you're asking to be designed for every single character. That's around half of the total sprites characters currently take.

He said classic sonic gameplay, which is two dimensional... So technically to replicate it you'd only need the side frames :1

 

[Rob]

Believe it or not, the NiGHTS sprites actually support this. But nobody has been crazy enough to try and make ALL of the sprites.

You have no idea how much I wish this would happen. I am aware of the logistical issue involved, but dam if it wouldn't look awesome with some of the neat new things that can be done.

 

[fickleheart]

He said classic sonic gameplay, which is two dimensional... So technically to replicate it you'd only need the side frames :1

SRB2 is a 3D game.

 

[MrBreada]

Even if slopes were in Sonic Robo Blast 2, would it be worth it? In some 3D Sonic games I've played, they feel scripted and automatic, except in Sonic Adventure, where they're still horrible anyway.

Spoiler: Smart Remark

2.2 would be out for 2 years by the time somebody makes a full NiGHTS sprite sheet for SRB2.

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM ----------

SRB2 is a 3D game.

It is, but a 2D game is what I had in mind when I was thinking of remaking classic sonic gameplay.

 

[clairebun]

SRB2 already has the sidescroller engine, so yeah, that's doable. But I think it's jarring enough that we have 2d sections in our levels, I don't see 2d slopes being useful except for having a 2d unlockable showing off that we can replicate ghz1.

 

[TelosTurntable]

I know loops are never ever gonna be a thing for the reasons MI and Red mentionned up there, but I think it would be more simple if the camera just sets itself to a point where you see the character from the side, from there, the only things the game has to do is to rotate the sprite accordingly to the loop during them. (Same would go for slopes.)

...The -even simplier- thing would be to just stick to MD2s, which (unless I'm wrong.) were inclinating depending on the slope back in CB.

Back to the topic itself, I think everyone here said exactly what was needed to be said about it, nothing is really impossible when it comes to code, it's just sometimes a big pain that shoves down your ass to do them.

Actually, looking into it (and this came into mind while looking at the old SRB2CB post, haha) I realized the putting the player into a [visual] roll would look decent while going through a loop.

 

[Shadow Hog]

So there's hope for 2Fort in SRB2, assuming there's a patient enough WAD developer? Woohoo!

It's been done. (I mean, why do you think we have "2FORT*" textures in the IWAD?)