First step towards improving the forum!

[Ritz]

Maybe we can get around this. Rather than it being the "Banana Basket", it should be named "Beginners" or "First wads", giving a name that is more constructive than derogatory.

Oh no, it has to be derogatory- we need to shock them into getting their acts together, otherwise, we'd just be relocating the filth, which, I suspect, is why the Editing forum was split up in the first place. It hasn't helped, it just clutters up the boards and makes ignoring SOCs and characters simpler, which is counterproductive if anything.

Another thing about choosing the users for this "group" - the top 30 posters list should be the cap for users who can join.

That calls post count into play, and that was removed that for a reason. This wouldn't require any more than 2-4 people, anyway- just pick the most capable people and leave it at that, be they old or otherwise.

EDIT: ST218 beat me to it.

 

[Cue]

How long you've been on the forum really doesn't count towards how fit you are to take up the job. There are people that have been here over two years that wouldn't be fit to take part, but people that have been here less that would. Instead of basing it on account age, how about it just basing it on how capable people are for the position and leave it at that?

It's like saying a 13 year old will obviously suck at anything to do with code and a 30 year old would be great at it. I don't know a single 30 year old who knows how to use if and else, let alone the rest. Yet I know 3 or 4 people that are 13-16 years of age that know PHP well enough to make a respectable piece of forum software that could quite possibly rival PHPBB.

 

[Segmint]

How long you've been on the forum really doesn't count towards how fit you are to take up the job. There are people that have been here over two years that wouldn't be fit to take part, but people that have been here less that would. Instead of basing it on account age, how about it just basing it on how capable people are for the position and leave it at that?

Why is it that everyone is voting yes, but only a small amount of people actually understand? (Cueball, that obviously means you understand) Postcount shouldn't account for any rank in forums, because people would start raising postcount, which is like asking for spam.

What I also love, is how people are saying "Pick me! Pick ME!" when that is the behavior that prevents them from being any higher on whatever scale this forum takes on (Staff, Moderators, Administrators). If you ask to be a moderator, you aren't going to be one, obviously, because that is the childish action they expect people who are unfit to have that responsibility, reveal they can't do it. Honestly, if Mystic put up a poll, and said, "Who do you think should be our next Administrator?", there would be maybe 2 or 3 people voting for someone they feel is responsible, and many others would vote for themselves (not even jokingly).

Stop making lists, because we still don't know if they care or not. Lists will cause everyone to argue about, "omg who shuld be next i think i shuld but hey u try to find som1 better". It doesn't help anything! The last thing we need is a huge arguement, and have 10+ members being banned for "flaming". Not to mention, the idea would be scrapped if that happened. The Administrators will pick whom they see fit.

Now, I will make a list of people I think shouldn't be chosen:

- Users starting lists of people they should, and including themselves

- Users nominating themselves

- Users who have joined less than 3 months ago

- Users that do not use proper grammar (because, that is a rule)

- Users whom often start a disagreement between themselves and others

- Users that are just hungry for power

- Users creating idiotic ideas of how the group should be chosen

- Users who pick favorites

- Users who pick enemies (users they hate, so they treat them badly even when nothing wrong has happened)

If you were expecting names, you are sadly mistaken, as that would be rude (on the one side), and also would make me a hypocrite. To be a moderator, you need to be able to use your powers wisely, am I right? In order to do that, you need to have certain qualities, like leadership, honesty, and intelligence (although it may not be a quality, and actually an attribute).

Remember, we aren't discussing, "omg who should be picked", we are discussing, how it would work, if the Administrators will impliment it, how efficient it is, etc.

Stop with the lists.

Edit: I think the "Banana Basket" should be called, "New User Wads/Socs" or something along that line.

 

[Sykotic]

Segmint has a point. But I think everyone falls into one of those categories in one way or another.

 

[Segmint]

Consider people who fall into 2 or more of them.

 

[Sykotic]

You mean in two or less, right? Because the list says people who shouldn't be nominated.

 

[Segmint]

Yeah, people who fall into two or more, shouldn't.

Two or less could.

Edit: I keep forgetting my grammar...

When using a number that is less than 100, always write it out. =|

 

[Jazz]

I like the sound of an idea to move the crap to another location. Kinda reminds me of "blamming" on Newgrounds.

My problems with this:

1. Though, if implemented, this will be an effective way to move crappy wads/recolors to another location, it will not change the amount of crap produced.

2. From previous posts, it sounds like these new "Critics" are going to have the power to choose pretty much whether a new wad is even looked at. Once its tossed into the "Newbie WAD" category, I don't see few people going off into the "garbage pits" to look at wads. Which brings me to the next problem.

3. These newbies will never improve if their wads are not subject to constructive criticism. They will never be subject to this criticism if their wads are moved to a location where nobody is going to want to go.

On the plus side:

1. It now gives more incentive to make a better map. Who wants their wad/name associated with the "Newbie WAD" section?

2. It allows the people who want to give good criticism to maps that already have some merit by being allowed to remain in the Releases section.

Overall, I like the sound of this idea, the people who are chosen for this "critic" position and the guidelines for whether maps are allowed to remain in the normal Release sections need to be carefully analyzed.

*EDIT* Maybe it would be more effective to go by the Newgrounds model, and do a vote out of 5, with wads being deleted if they receive 1 or below, and put in the "Newbie" section if they get between a 1-2, and the regular section from 2.5 and above.

 

[I'll Begin]

Green means I pass. Red means I don't.

Now, I will make a list of people I think shouldn't be chosen:


- Users starting lists of people they should, and including themselves
Haven't done that

- Users nominating themselves
Done that, many times.

- Users who have joined less than 3 months ago
Been here since last December

- Users that do not use proper grammar (because, that is a rule)
My grammar's generally ok, though my spelling could use a little work.

- Users whom often start a disagreement between themselves and others
That I'm not enirely sure about, but I probably haven't done it.

- Users that are just hungry for power
Well I obviously am if I'm comparing myself to this list.

- Users creating idiotic ideas of how the group should be chosen
Haven't done that

- Users who pick favorites
Nope

- Users who pick enemies (users they hate, so they treat them badly even when nothing wrong has happened)
Don't think I have. Someone prove me wrong.

I should really get over myself. D:

 

[Penopat]

1. Though, if implemented, this will be an effective way to move crappy wads/recolors to another location, it will not change the amount of crap produced.

Very good point.

Nothing is going to demeanor the amount of n00bshiftkey being created. The only thing this new policy will do is just sort out the crap from the good. And we watch as our "good releases" section only has 10 topics. EVERYONE wants their hypermysticzuperpillowshadedjshadownicoverdrivechaos 1.09.fail, and as thus, no amount of "changingtheforumnametomakeitlooklikeyourcharacterwadsucks" is going to end any n00bdom. People will still suck at making wads, since the n00bs WANT crappy recolors of their own or levels with uncompressed music - not quality characters and challenging levels. Also, the n00bs outnumber the smart people dramatically.

Overall, I like the sound of this idea, the people who are chosen for this "critic" position and the guidelines for whether maps are allowed to remain in the normal Release sections need to be carefully analyzed.

The only thing I hate about any kind of analyzation is that there is always the bias ordeal to bother with. You'll end up with a bunch of people liking the same thing instead of a diverse variety. Also, only the close friends of ______ will be hired most of the time, which will kinda suck.

Finally, Mystic does not know how to use PHPBB. That bugger. :(

 

[Ritz]

1. Though, if implemented, this will be an effective way to move crappy wads/recolors to another location, it will not change the amount of crap produced.

Very good point.

Nothing is going to demeanor the amount of n00bshiftkey being created. The only thing this new policy will do is just sort out the crap from the good. And we watch as our "good releases" section only has 10 topics. EVERYONE wants their hypermysticzuperpillowshadedjshadownicoverdrivechaos 1.09.fail, and as thus, no amount of "changingtheforumnametomakeitlooklikeyourcharacterwadsucks" is going to end any n00bdom. People will still suck at making wads, since the n00bs WANT crappy recolors of their own or levels with uncompressed music - not quality characters and challenging levels. Also, the n00bs outnumber the smart people dramatically.

I must admit, that is a good point, but I really don't see any other solution for this other than forcing people to shape up. I mean, we have good guides, we have plenty of good role models, we tell them how to improve, and none of it phases them in the least. What else can be done?

The worst part is that these people feed off of each other; we've got the people making this trash, and then we've got the people that'll play said trash and praise them for it every single time- It's just one big circle felch, and it's not like we can tell these people what and what not to like. If we can't change the people causing the problem, the only other solution I can see is that we start churning out good wads to offset things, and there simply aren't enough decent, active wadders out there to sustain the community like that.

 

[Segmint]

I should really get over myself. D:

Yeah, you really should. Heh, so anyway, if no one wants to go there, that's because it's garbage.

Maybe, it needs a trial period, but how it would work, I'm not sure.

-- Topics that may be a "Newbie Wad" need at least one page (topic is up to page 2) to be moved.
-- All topics need a poll voting if its a Newbie Wad (bad idea...)
-- Discussion of wad after it has been moved to the Newbie Wad Bin is allowed, but cannot post new topics (like the Archive)
-- If users feel a wad should not be in the Newbie Wad Bin, it may be moved back, but only if there is a legitimate number of people feeling that the wad is unfairly in the wrong place.
-- All timer SOCs will go there, and their topics will be locked.
A new system is in order as well.

-- Cannot have more than 2 projects in effect at one time, must finish 1 to start another
-- If your wad has been moved to the Newbie Wad Bin, no complaints can be posted in the topic, and must be PMed to a "Mod Critic". If any complaints are posted in the Bin, or any other release forum, you are not allowed to release wads for a week (?)

I can't think of any... My brain is fizzling, and I'm having mental block at the moment. Please, anyone willing to help this move along, try to think of a system.

24 Yes - 0 No
It's 100% so far.

Edit: A lot of the crap is worked on in editing, and many people say to continue it, even though it is still crap (because it's like, as long as it's a wad, they want it). The amount of crap could be cut by new rules, but that's just me.

Edit: Also, people are getting lazier, and instead of recoloring SRB2 sprites, they are either releasing the same ones with overpowered stats, or using sprite sheets. Not even recoloring the sheets, but just placing them on top of the SRB2 sprites. Some users are recoloring them, but still, 2D sprite wads (with either no front, back, and corner sprites, or just no front and corner sprites.

 

[I'll Begin]

Instead of a newbie wad area. Wouldn't it be easier, and nicer, to have a "Critic's Pick" forum in the Editing section where we put all the GOOD ones?

 

[Jazz]

I like that idea. It removes all the negative aspects of the whole thing, giving wadders something to look up to, instead of something to dread. This may not be any easier in practice, but it definitely sounds more positive, which is a good way to make it easier to implement.

The last thing we need is the noobs busting down our doors because we relegated their wads to another area... :|

 

[Segmint]

Instead of a newbie wad area. Wouldn't it be easier, and nicer, to have a "Critic's Pick" forum in the Editing section where we put all the GOOD ones?

You just keep getting better at these suggestions, I'll. Instead of it being negative, it's totally positive! One problem though, is people will be complaining about, "OMG Y IS MY WAD NOT THER OMG I WORK HARD TOO!!!", but not as much as people flaming about how their wad sucks.
Oh, and it's the Releases forum, not editing.

 

[Penopat]

... the only other solution I can see is that we start churning out good wads to offset things, and there simply aren't enough decent, active wadders out there to sustain the community like that...

Uhh, we still have good wads. It's just that the n00bs don't WANT good wads. Notice how these crappy mods and mediocre character wads are getting more praise from the n00bs than any good wad. They prefer overpowered recolored sonic sprites or pillow shaded stick shadow wads instead of quality wads like Espio. Mediocre mods like Furry of the Storm are getting more attention than Chaotic Darkness. Obviously, we can't offset it like this.

We aren't going to be able to do much about the n00blie situation unless you want to go 4/1 on the forums. Of course, we could always nag Mystic to actually UPDATE the addons section a bit more often... <_< >_>

 

[Segmint]

Wow, I've just been posting like crazy, haven't I? (By crazy, I mean large, massive posts, not raising postcount.)

Well, if the noobs want that, then let them wallow in their own little pool of failure, while all of the intellectuals hang out of the Critics' Pick forum, and discuss everything there.

 

[Princess Plushima]

I myself would prefer a highly negative "Bananna Basket" forum, over any sort of "WAD Critic's pick" forum.

For starters, it makes things easier on the WAD Critics. It's much easier to declare something horrid than it is to declare something good.
Second off, as Spazzo said it seems like it'd be much more effective to try and shock people into thinking "zomg this didn't work i need 2 try something new"

Just my two bits there.

 

[glaber]

I didn't vote yet as I'm currently neither for nor against the idea. I'm just going to see how this plays out because it seems lie a good idea but I have no idea how it will affect me and the wads I plan to release (Dimension Glaber, SRB2 Christmas 2007 update, and a possible Jazz Jackrabbit Character wad)

 

[Super mystic sonic]

I'm not sure if this would work out well if fans of a certain wad could bring wads back from death that landed in the banana/newbie/whatever area, considering n00b wads are also praised by n00bs, and could be brought back by those guys.

I'm both for and against this idea. The good point is that you can seperate good from bad, and it could force people to realise that their work sucks. But people could also just judge from the screens and move a decent wad, or just automaticly trow a wad away judging by the previous version of that wad. Being friends with the mod critics could save your wad too. And then there's the problem with taste, and a mod critic constantly moving his/her own crappy wads back to where it doesn't belong. I just have to see what becomes of this. If things would go well and the right people were chosen, this would be a fair first step.

1 thing, though. Choosing me as wad critic is a realllll bad idea. Thrust me on that one.