Character Creator for SRB2: Why don't we have it?

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Glass-Teeth

Glass-Teeth

Paradolia
I've been looking around for a bit, and I was wondering.
We have Kartmaker.
We have Zone Builder.
So why not a program specifically for making our own characters?
We can make it so that we code like Scratch, placing the Lua into downloadable, modular chunks that can be edited in-program, and allow the user to port their own sprites, or use a template to create their own stuff.
As for design, something like the old Flash Sonic OC creator we all remember from the good old days of the internet, where we were allowed to be an idiot without major consequences (For the most part)
 
A character is not the same thing as a custom map. There are many aspects to a custom character, including an average of 200 unique sprites, Lua scripts, SOC configs, sounds, and more.

Kartmaker is not a character creator. It just compiles the sprites made for Kart characters, which are comparatively simpler than vanilla characters. You still need to use SLADE to configure the character, and an art program to make the sprites in the first place.

Anyone who's willing to sit down and make all the components necessary for a full custom character likely doesn't have many qualms with needing to compile the sprites in SLADE. Considering the much lower bar for entry when it comes to Kart characters, having a program that compiles the sprites for you makes sense.

That said, I can't think of any reasons why such a program as the one you're proposing would be problematic. If you wanted to make one, I'm sure it would do a decent job of lowering the bar for entry into custom character creation.
 
Well if think.
I would like to play DOOM as MAIMY.
Killing demons with mace and shoting at railgun in her hand (in original comic It was) its likes are COOL!

And why no?
Game maker for srb2 character looks like cool and easy system!

But anyway.

What is it, what is this,

complete nonsense!

And now try make this idea real.

what most easy?
make character or make character maker?
 
A_3TO_GAS_MAN*(RUS)* said:
Game maker for srb2 character looks like cool and easy system!
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Yeah. Only if someone were to somehow abstract all the complex functionality that could be available to you.
However, abstracting such freedom and still allowing a lot of freedom is a big undertaking that not many are willing to go through.

A_3TO_GAS_MAN*(RUS)* said:
And now try make this idea real.
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No.

A_3TO_GAS_MAN*(RUS)* said:
what most easy?
make character or make character maker?
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Obviously making a character.
Making a program that makes characters, complete with all the bells and whistles and railguns and maces is absolutely not an easy task.



You're welcome to try it yourself though.
 
Rapidgame7 said:
Yeah. Only if someone were to somehow abstract all the complex functionality that could be available to you.
However, abstracting such freedom and still allowing a lot of freedom is a big undertaking that not many are willing to go through.


No.


Obviously making a character.
Making a program that makes characters, complete with all the bells and whistles and railguns and maces is absolutely not an easy task.



You're welcome to try it yourself though.
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Oh, how nice it is when such a smart person supports you!
What courtesy, what eloquence.

I won't forget you soon!
 
Rapidgame7 said:
Yeah. Only if someone were to somehow abstract all the complex functionality that could be available to you.
However, abstracting such freedom and still allowing a lot of freedom is a big undertaking that not many are willing to go through.


No.


Obviously making a character.
Making a program that makes characters, complete with all the bells and whistles and railguns and maces is absolutely not an easy task.



You're welcome to try it yourself though.
Click to expand...
What I mean to say is a program with a template like Kartmaker for character sprites; a basic skeleton that anyone can edit at their own discretion, and the ability to add modular Lua "Chunks" for actions like shooting, slashing, punching/kicking, and so on, so forth. You could download chunks that are premade by those that WANT to make Lua chunks for you to use, or you can make your own. As for editing values, the program could allow you to set them using a slider system of sorts.
It would come with a basic pack of templates and a LUA chunk for basic actions, and a sort of "Tutorial buddy" or a tutorial that would tell you how it works. Basically, make the character animations, add the Lua chunks, fiddle with the sliders until it seems legit, and hit "Create".
Simple. Easy. And allows literally anybody to make a character, as long as they know how a character creator works. (And have basic animation skills, but that's besides the point.)
 
Creating a software that does as you imagine could surely make it easier for people to effortlessly (both in the good and the bad meaning of the word) make characters...

But again: hard and annoying to make.
 
Rapidgame7 said:
Creating a software that does as you imagine could surely make it easier for people to effortlessly (both in the good and the bad meaning of the word) make characters...

But again: hard and annoying to make.
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I am aware of all of these factors, especially the fact that people can use this to make some... unsavory... characters.
But I will not take responsibility for what they do with the tools I make for everyone to use.
And unless they themselves made the distasteful character, neither does anyone else.
I mean, it's not the inventor of the Crowbar's fault that it's commonly used for violence, is it?
And it's not the creator of the van's fault that it's commonly used in Europe to steal things.

So, will I regret this?
Probably.
Will I take it back?
Nope.
 
Glass-Teeth said:
unsavory
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what
i have no idea what tangent did you decide to go on, but it is definitely not one i was in.

i was just talking about effortless (woah, this will let me make my own dream character way faster with some building blocks!) and effortless (lol ill just mix and match then pump out 56 quadrillion characters per nanosecond. i have not learned anything)



either definition (of a side comment!) doesn't change my original statement though, and my statement does not hinge on this either.
 
Rapidgame7 said:
View attachment 81381
what
i have no idea what tangent did you decide to go on, but it is definitely not one i was in.

i was just talking about effortless (woah, this will let me make my own dream character way faster with some building blocks!) and effortless (lol ill just mix and match then pump out 56 quadrillion characters per nanosecond. i have not learned anything)



either definition doesn't change my original statement though
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Hey, if they want to brick their computers, that's their choice.
I am aware of that one as well.
Somebody's going to find a way to make a God, somebody's going to make something that gets them banned, and somebody's going to spam this site with character mods until either their computer crashes, or this site does.
That's why I have an idea to make sure that they don't spam the site.

A mandatory "General Test" map inside the program that won't let you publish it until you've ensured it can complete a set of basic tasks.
For example, "Get to the other side!" or "Climb this Tower!"

Once the character has passed these tests, they will then be able to be turned into a real mod character.
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Vincent The Bear said:
This looks and sounds like a "what if" type of discussion, which for the record, I'm trying hard not to be some sort of backseat moderator, but this kind of breaks the 16th rule.
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I'd have to go re-read the rules, as I might have forgotten that one.
 
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Alright, you don't seem to be getting my drift, so from now on I'm going to stop with the euphenisms and be direct.

First off, your descriptions are slowly creeping into what's not allowed as per the 16th rule, so you might want to stop continuously describing a program that may never exist.



Second off, my main point is that next to nobody wants to take the work of making something exceedingly complex.
The idea you are imagining right now, while it could make things easier in so many aspects, is absolutely not easy to create.

Consider that a SRB2 character is not just sprites like in Kart - It may involve coding, it may involve special functionality with sprites, whatever the case that mere Scratch blocks might not be enough to make cool things happen.

Making a thing with that many failsafes, that much modularity, and so on, is absolutely not a quick task you can finish in mere minutes with a couple lines. It's a project that can potentially take days and weeks of developing and testing to ensure every piece works together, and doing that (for free!) is not exactly a source of motivation for many people.
At least not without some sort of compensation, you know, but let's put that aside for now.

People like making characters for free for everyone to enjoy, but that's because they love creating these things. Be it because there's some aspect that is required for a character, like art or coding. Or because they like showing off stuff to people... Whatever the reason is, it is because they're motivated.
Making a program that does everything and more in such a way that it is approachable to whoever the target audience is will be going to eat away your motivation, and can end you being sick of programming. It sucks!



You are welcome to learn some programming language and create that program by yourself though, but you really should stop describing random parts of a program that does not exist yet. You are making it sound like you want someone to make it for you.
 
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My biggest fear regarding the potential eventual existence of such a program isn't the difficulty of making it (though obviously it would be tedious and time consuming) but rather the potential implications that such a thing could have for the modding community. It's hard to imagine a miracle program that does every single potential bell and whistle you could ever want flawlessly to make complex character creation approachable by anyone ever existing, so there'd probably have to be compromises.

The result of such a program could easily be that more people start pumping out characters for a bit because they all want to try the fancy new tool, but this will drop off once everyone gets used to the idea that the tool exists. Then we'd be back where we are now, except many of the new characters that do come out will be limited by the capabilities of the program. After all, why do all the hard work of making a quality character the traditional way when you can pump out a passable character (relatively) quickly and easily? I fear it might even dissuade some of the more talented modders in the community from putting full effort into their characters from then on, resulting in us not getting some quality mods in the future that we otherwise would have.

The point I'm making isn't that a tool to make characters more easily is a bad thing, it's more that it's the kind of thing that really can't be half-assed. The creation of such a tool would need to be something of a passion project by someone who knows what they are doing and is in it for the long haul, not releasing it until it's got all the bells and whistles working. The odds of that ever happening are probably slim to none.
 
Maybe it would be Very Difficult and time consuming.And plus the developers of SRB2 have stopped working on the project.The Fans of srb2 have the power to make your dream though :).
 
Hate to reiterate things, but characters are so much more complex. Even if there was a character creation program, there would be no reason to use it as SLADE would be able to do what it would do and much more.

darkpurplesonic said:
What I meant by the project is srb2 itself I think (I haven't seen any new updates...)
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A lack of updates does not mean the game is dead. It's far from it. Making accusations like that in a community where everyone has a life and can't work on something full-time is just idiotic. Check your facts and find proof.
 
I feel like the best option is just for a sprite template thing so you dont have to port every single sprite one at a time(unlessim stupid and there is an easier way)
 
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