Angel Pantheon [1.01] (scr_AngelPantheon.wad) UPDATED 3/13/11

[Shiron]

FIXED STARTPOINT!
This is my first submitted level, Angel Pantheon.
It takes place in an ancient temple on Angel Island.

Another update!

Screen shots:
NOTICE: Screenshots are outdated!

The platform hop at the beginning. Columns added for Knuckles.

The first gargoyle gimmick.

First cave area.

Outside room #2

Cave with water (Like most caves don't have water....)

Please give as much feedback as you can!
MediaFire link:
Link's not up to date, just wait.....
UPDATE:
See change log

Sorry for HUGE Pictures, ImageShack needs a bug fix.

Known bugs

1. When entering the cave, you might sigsev. I'm working on it...

Spoiler: Changelog

Alpha 1: This is the debut of the level. It sucked and didn't have much detail.
Alpha 2: This version is WAY better than the first one. The first tunnel was made shorter, new gimmicks were added (gargoyle
maze, waterfall hazard, etc.) "Flame Trails" were removed, many rooms were much more bigger, black hallways now have textures,
and rings were reduced.
Beta 1: The level now has a longer gargoyle maze and is made longer, with a water area. Also, the secret 1-up area is made easier to
access when using Sonic. More texture variation is used, so is decoration.
Beta 2: This version fixed many problems and has a new token location. A shrine
is added at the end, that has a strange written language in the middle... The shrine will
be moved in the last version.
Version 1.01: The level is now half-way finished! The waterslide is extended, the "spring-o-death" is fixed, and the level has a new sky!

 

[Silvaseven123]

I will check it out and good luck on your wad.

 

[BlueZero4]

(Don't listen to Scizor; he has no idea what he's talking about.)

First levels are never masterpieces. In fact, I'd say that your level is better than my first.

Whenever you're mapping (or doing anything creative), you need to ask yourself questions. Even though this might sound a little counter-intuitive, the answers you give to your own questions are truly how you create stuff. For example:

WHY is the player here? Is this the final challenge which stands between our hero and the final encounter with the boss? Is this an abandoned ruin which holds the key to finding out how to reach the villain's hideout? Is this the desert wasteland through which all must pass? Whatever answer you give to the WHY question changes what kind of challenges you give the player, how you shape the visuals of the level, and some other things I can't think of right now.

Next: How did the player get here? It looks like you've teleported your player here. Did the architects of this ruin expect your hero, so they built a teleporter room to receive him? Or did he force his way in so he teleports into the ruin's sewer system? Why is this hallway at the beginning so important?

I don't think I'm going to go through this process for everything in your level, but I think you understand what I mean. Why are the flames leading your hero? Why is it so dark? Why won't the door work without the gargoyle? Why are these crushers going up and down?

Now that you've started your epic saga as a level designer, you're going to start playing other people's levels differently. You're going to start noticing details you haven't seen before. Like a texture getting cut off, or the size of a corridor. You're slowly going to learn the nuances of mapping as you go, so I won't try to force-feed them to you. If you'd like to force-feed them to yourself, there's a page on the wiki with your name on it. I don't recommend it though, because it's just a bunch of rules stuffed in your face.

But there is one thing you definitely need to change: You're trying to make a dark room by using black textures on the walls and floor. Instead, use the brick textures and learn how to use sector lighting. Just pull up your sector details dialog box and go change "Brightness." You'll be glad you did.

 

[MascaraSnake]

If you'd like to force-feed them to yourself, there's a page on the wiki with your name on it. I don't recommend it though, because it's just a bunch of rules stuffed in your face.

Oh, I think the Level Design 101 is fairly good for beginning level designers under one circumstance: You need to try and understand why these "rules" are there. If you just read the bolded stuff and take it as a "book of rules", you will learn nothing. But if you accept and agree with each recommendation, and if you're able to justify them, then you know what makes a good level. The article tries to do its best at explaining why certain things are necessary, but if you wanna learn that way and don't understand why the Level Design 101 says something, be sure to ask (for example on the talk page). The LD101 only makes sense if you approach it with thought.

Regarding your level, BlueZero4 already said the most important things. You have some nice and varied gameplay ideas, which is really impressive for a first level. The next step is fine-tuning, so you can assemble these ideas into a level logically. But you're definitely on the right path. If you want to, just continue with this level and try out as many things as you want to. Don't worry if the end result isn't perfect, but always try to understand why it isn't perfect and what you can improve. Good luck!

 

[Metal-Rawr]

Err... Too many rings in one place?
But besides that, for an alpha version, this level is pretty cool. I really look forward to it releasing. Also, if your making a black room, at least shadow it so it'll look more "real".
And BlueZero, most levels on our community don't have storyline, people refuse to make 'em for some reason. Take Oceanic Cove, the SP levels in Archpack, and much much more, for examples.

 

[MascaraSnake]

And BlueZero, most levels on our community don't have storyline, people refuse to make 'em for some reason. Take Oceanic Cove, the SP levels in Archpack, and much much more, for examples.

He isn't talking about a storyline. What he means is that in a good level, everything should have a purpose in the overall concept. Oceanic Cove handles the transition between various themes with a lot of care, while Mill Citadel went through months of balancing just to make sure the gameplay elements are presented in the right order. What he means is that during level design, you should ask yourself all the time: Why is this thing there? Does it make sense where it is or should it be somewhere else? Does it seem logical for the player to encounter it? Does it fit in with my overall concept?

 

[Internet Explorer]

(I am French, I can hardly speak.)

First level, you say?
Well, you already have great ideas ! I rarely see raw maps as well. I mean the executors : a gadget that people who already have knowledge about creating level. The gadget "gargoyle on button". I was shocked when I saw him. But, like all beginners in general ... the problem lies in level design.
==> You have to make some enemies. That look like your decor "Sanctuary", but do not abuse it too.
==> Surely one of the biggest problems that frequently (even I, Me, I do not correct all the time in my wad ...) It is the space, yes. Lots of maps have areas with bad size. In general, and in the case of your level, the level is far too narrow. Keep in mind that Sonic likes to run. That said, do not create large plains are one minute to cross! I mean, take your rocky start. In dismissing the walls and the roof, it could be much more refined and encourage more players to continue the level.


Me, I say +1 for invisible paths with flame. You've inspired Sonic Heroes?

 

[Shiron]

Thanks for the help! I will update this level soon.

 

[Fawfulfan]

Internet Explorer, you might want to put that I-am-French disclaimer in either your usertitle or your signature, so that you don't have to say it every time you jump into a new thread.

Anyway, I wanted to say a bunch of stuff about this level, but you guys beat me to the punch in just about every regard. So I'll just say I agree--surprisingly consistent and well-conceived theme for a first level, but riddled with lots of typical first-timer flaws like badly placed rings, cramped passageways, irritatingly high-precision jumping challenges and the like.

Definitely make more levels. There's some untapped talent hiding underneath your lack of experience. Learn from the mistakes you made here, and I won't be surprised if you start churning out quality creations a year from now.

 

[BlueZero4]

What [BlueZero4] means is that in a good level, everything should have a purpose in the overall concept.

I would like to officially endorse SpiritCrusher's statement. He did an amazing job at clarifying what I meant

 

[Metal-Rawr]

Woa, nice fix you did there! Fast, and amazing. I love what you did with the gargolye.
When I've seen it I was like "Oh please..." but then... Epic stuff. I can't wait for the complete version. You sir, got talent.

 

[Shiron]

Woa, nice fix you did there! Fast, and amazing. I love what you did with the gargolye.
When I've seen it I was like "Oh please..." but then... Epic stuff. I can't wait for the complete version. You sir, got talent.

Thanks! The nest version is going to be the first beta.

 

[Scizor300]

Well, I'm dumbfounded, at a loss for words. You've shown me that I can actually trust you to take in advice, even the horrible advice I gave before, and turned this level from mediocre, into something actually pretty refreshing. It was short and sweet, not dragging on for too long, but not being so quick that you'd blink if you missed it. I have to say congrats, and I apologize for my incredibly asanine review that I posted above (And then deleted.)

Right off the bat, the first area was entirely redone, and the hallway that I couldn't find a reason for being there was significantly shortened. The pointless flame trail was gone, and I actually found myself doing some actual platforming. I exit that room, and end up in a dark room. I realize that this is the one that previously had completely black walls. I was pretty suprised.

I see a hallway that looked like it was just the ol' "push gargoyle into button", and it looked like it was rather pointless to push it down a straight hallway. I start pushing the statue towards the bigger button, and, well, some walls pop up as an obstruction to my goal. This is something I've rarely seen in a level, and that's a great thing. The outside area is much less cramped, and the minus actually fit rather well in the level. There may have been a small lack of enemies, but for a first level, it's nice to see that lack.

I also happened to notice that, instead of the exit to the tunnel going up into the sky, it actually doesn't. Though, the bit of sky above it could be replaced by the wall texture, instead of sky. The next dark room is less of an improvement, though. While it looks much better, the crushers are gone, and the one torch keeping the room lit isn't enough. After going through that room, I come to the last area. It's the same as before, so it's rather subpar. Try having some more platforming and stick the end sign at the other end of the room.

While the improvements in this level are vast, it is not without flaw. The first room, and the level as a whole, lack a lot of detail and texture variaton. Try using more of the wooden textures and other kinds of grasses. The bottom of the waterfall in the first room is still deadly, probably a small mistake of not marking that part while expanding the first room. The gargoyle puzzle was something really new that I haven't seen before, and it would be even better if you could have included some more height variation, also making the ceiling in that hall slightly taller. The dark rooms, while definetly are improvements, are also a bit too dark. Try going a few levels down from the highest light level, so there isn't as much contrast as seen right now.

Another thing about these rooms, and any other rooms that have pits. Try, instead of using the straight-out black PIT texture, try using the FOFs known as Half-Light Blocks. They alter the light of a specific area set like a FOF. Try using at least three of them for each pit, getting darker as you go lower, until it hits the pit. It looks much more appealing than having the walls go into the void or clashing with a completely black texture. The last room is, as mentioned above, unchanged.

As a, not good, but decent level designer myself, I am speechless at how fast you took the critisism handed to you before, and nearly turned the level around. It's a massive refreshment for having someone completely new take critisism, and use it, this well. You have a ton of potential behind you, and I'm sure you can make great things from what you're learning.

Oh yeah, and the part right here, at the end of the gargoyle puzzle, is missing a texture, might want to go fix that.

 

[BlueZero4]

First things first: You gotta start talking more to us. Your release thread is an open dialog between the creator and the players. Tell us what you're thinking. Go check out some other threads in the releases section to see how other creators have responded to their feedback. For example, when you update the first post with a new version, you may want to make a new post at the bottom of the thread telling people to go grad the new version. I only check the new posts at the bottom of the thread and don't know to check the first post again unless I'm told.

• Do you know that you have a deathpit right underneath your waterfall? Several times I've left in some deathpit sector effects on stuff accidentally because I forgot to change that part of the sector properties.
• You seemed to really have some fun making that secret area with the life. I was totally expecting another reward for going up to the top of that room and checking out the little grassy patch. Maybe an emerald token would suffice?
• Awesome, you made a dark room! Keep in mind, though, there's such a thing as a room being too dark. If you have trouble seeing in the room, we will too.
• Is that an exit sector inside an invisible, intangible 3D block? If so, good job. If not, think about it.
  Also, as a mapper, you're not making levels to show anyone else anything, prove yourself to anyone, or to get them to like you. You should make maps because you're enjoying it. Feel free to reject any suggestions people give you if you don't like them.
• Whenever your floor heights move up and down, the game's going to look for texture information Doom Builder (or whatever you're using) didn't tell you that you needed. It's your job as a level designer to keep your eye out for these little spots whenever you're using crushers or executors or stuff.

 

[Prime 2.0]

Is that an exit sector inside an invisible, intangible 3D block? If so, good job. If not, think about it.

Yeah, it is.

The first room, and the level as a whole, lack a lot of detail and texture variaton.

Mm, it's not so much that there wasn't texture variation, it's just that it wasn't used entirely properly. Walking through the level, I counted about 11 different wall textures throughout the whole thing, and it generally fit the theme of the level; but it's the application of that variety that really counts, so let's explore that a bit.

Now this is the sort of thing that people hardly ever notice consciously, or mention when they do notice, but it makes a world of good. Take a look at this screenshot comparison:

Spoiler: big pictures

The above shows the first dark room as it is in alpha 2, and the below shows that same room with the background walls swapped out for something else.

The difference is rather pronounced, especially in motion; the contrast produced between the overall darker, high detail walkway and the larger blocky wall texture make it much easier to find the edges at a glance, and where the edges are is the most important thing a player can know about his surroundings; in dark rooms like this, you need to use more tricks to make sure he can see what is relevant. This isn't just for dark rooms, though: the same idea can be applied in the first room to make the stepping stones stand out more from the background. Adding a waterfall to the right side of the room could provide additional contrast as well.


And that's something that seems to go unspoken a lot of the time; texture variety is about contrast. It's for drawing the player's attention away from the insignificant and towards what is relevant in gameplay. Whether that's identifying a property of a structure such as whether it will break when spun into or if knuckles can't climb it(compelling reasons for texture consistency), helping the player to find the edges of the platform when viewed against the background, or simply drawing attention to some aspect of the room, what the textures and scenery tell the player and how they manipulate his attention should be your foremost concern before aesthetic.

Sapphire Falls Zone for instance shows an excellent use of texture variety to draw attention to edges and the foreground; notice how it uses varying levels of texture detail in specific places to achieve this effect.

Egg Rock Zone act 1 on the other hand uses a blue fog block here to draw contrast with the surrounding walls to draw the player's attention to the outer space area's exit; a very critical detail that would lead to an unfair death or two if overlooked.


I might say some more stuff later, I need to do a little research first.

 

[Shiron]

New Release

Beta will include:

1. Brighter "Dark Rooms".

2. Longer level.

3. More texture variation.

4. The waterfall near the 1-up area is no longer marked as a death pit.

5. Button in between the gargoyle maze and the out-side room will not have a missing texture.

6. More enemies added.

7. Half-Light Blocks over death pits.

8. Changelog.

9. More...

 

[Shiron]

The beta is now out!
Also the Media Fire link!

 

[Metal-Rawr]

Nice, though I found some stuff:

Spoiler

This happens in a bunch of places in the level. Never opened the Doom Builder, so I can't even know what it is or how to fix it, but I'm sure its fix-able.
And IMO, you should hide the token in a small hole that begins from the left/right wall of where it is now, getting a life monitor and a token for the same price is a bitt cheap.
Oh yeah, and I sigseved while entering the water part. Any idea why?

 

[Shiron]

Nice, though I found some stuff:

Spoiler

This happens in a bunch of places in the level. Never opened the Doom Builder, so I can't even know what it is or how to fix it, but I'm sure its fix-able.
And IMO, you should hide the token in a small hole that begins from the left/right wall of where it is now, getting a life monitor and a token for the same price is a bitt cheap.
Oh yeah, and I sigseved while entering the water part. Any idea why?

1. Sorry, it might take a while to fix those.

2. Ok, I'll hide the token in a hole.

3. Hmmmm... It worked fine with me. dose it always sigsev?

 

[Metal-Rawr]

Not really, I just tried again while holding the "camera reset" button while going into the hole with water and I didn't get sigseved.