Add-on Ratings changes

[Bandder]

You cannot design a mechanism that differentiates a "needs improvement" 1-star, an "I am outside of target audience" 1-star, and a "you're mom gay" 1-star, regardless of how clear you make the criteria—but who cares? Even if you could, none of them give me any information on what I should be doing to resolve it.

yeah thats what the 100-character minimum was to stop (basically everyone here agrees that the 100 char minimum change was good), except you bundled it with the removal of stars. if the stars are truely just for the people who play the mod, then you should keep the stars for the players who want to have a visual way too see what the community thinks about a mod without reading 10 paragraphs of reviews. generally if the community gave it a high rating then it must be high quality.

btw about the actual current removal of stars....

ya'll didn't even remove the stars properly, they are just visually gone. they still work the same as before, but you just cant sort mods by rating anymore, which brings up questions on why the stars still function. if you really want the community to shut their mouths and deal with this change just because you said so at least don't do a half ass job implementing said change.

 

[*GOOFYRAT!*]

yeah thats what the 100-character minimum was to stop (basically everyone here agrees that the 100 char minimum change was good), except you bundled it with the removal of stars. if the stars are truely just for the people who play the mod, then you should keep the stars for the players who want to have a visual way too see what the community thinks about a mod without reading 10 paragraphs of reviews. generally if the community gave it a high rating then it must be high quality.

btw about the actual current removal of stars....

ya'll didn't even remove the stars properly, they are just visually gone. they still work the same as before, but you just cant sort mods by rating anymore, which brings up questions on why the stars still function. if you really want the community to shut their mouths and deal with this change just because you said so at least don't do a half ass job implementing said change.

Actually, thankfully they kept the "top resources" thingy, so...

 

[Sls64LGamingBro]

This feels awkward to see them in here. Even if you considered erasing them. They're here for no purpose whatsoever. If you try it, then it won't show up, as they're nonexistent when checking your review.

 

[*GOOFYRAT!*]

View attachment 147608

This feels awkward to see them in here. Even if you considered erasing them. They're here for no purpose whatsoever. If you try it, then it won't show up, as they're nonexistent when checking your review.

Like I said a little bit ago, they're there for the "top resources" tab.

 

[Tyron]

generally if the community gave it a high rating then it must be high quality.

Leaving aside your lame attitude towards volunteer staff, I don't think this is always true. Addons with a narrow target audience can get low stars from people who want them to be something different, addons with few ratings can be buried or elevated because their average hasn't calibrated, and technical tools often get low ratings because the person rating doesn't know how to use them and can't be bothered to read.

The star system does manage to generally surface quality on average, but in my experience, it doesn't do any better than netgame popularity, word-of-mouth, or even a "most downoaded" filter—and usually it's worse. It seems totally reasonable to toss them.

 

[Bandder]

Like I said a little bit ago, they're there for the "top resources" tab.

yes, but then why bother removing them only visually and keep them working the same as before? you can still go to reviews and sort them by rating, and they will appear from high-rated to low-rated. this change was just lazy.
you'd think if they were so inclined to removing stars they would remove all functionality to the stars entirely. did they think that NO ONE was gonna look into this for more than 2 seconds and go "wait a second, the stars literally are the same as before, you just can't see them"

 

[*GOOFYRAT!*]

Leaving aside your lame attitude towards volunteer staff, I don't think this is always true. Addons with a narrow target audience can get low stars from people who want them to be something different, addons with few ratings can be buried or elevated because their average hasn't calibrated, and technical tools often get low ratings because the person rating doesn't know how to use them and can't be bothered to read.

The star system does manage to generally surface quality on average, but in my experience, it doesn't do any better than netgame popularity, word-of-mouth, or even a "most downoaded" filter—and usually it's worse. It seems totally reasonable to toss them.

Alright, now I get this. It's what got me into this convo. I still think the "ratings" sorting option would be useful to find the less appreciated mods that are absolute underdogs.

Which is why I'm (Mostly, as I just like design lmao) okay with them being gone.
However, it does a good job at visual representation.
At the end of the day, it's mainly preference. Some like it, some don't.
Which is why I hope the admin see this message, as I have an idea.
Maybe an option to turn the seeing of stars on and off. That way, those who don't wanna be insecure about their mods can keep em off, and those who like the PWETTY STAWS :3333 can keep em on.

 

[Bandder]

i mean yeah i wouldn't have a problem with that

 

[Whoexer9]

Leaving aside your lame attitude towards volunteer staff, I don't think this is always true. Addons with a narrow target audience can get low stars from people who want them to be something different, addons with few ratings can be buried or elevated because their average hasn't calibrated, and technical tools often get low ratings because the person rating doesn't know how to use them and can't be bothered to read.

The star system does manage to generally surface quality on average, but in my experience, it doesn't do any better than netgame popularity, word-of-mouth, or even a "most downoaded" filter—and usually it's worse. It seems totally reasonable to toss them.

Unfourtanly, that's the community that we live on.

 

[Avalice]

I don’t understand the “stars aren’t helpful to creators” argument. I’m a creator. I like stars, and I get a very fair share of criticism. Some people like stars! Some people may not but it’s not like the stars are attacking you. Really, more people would be happy with stars back, and I don’t imagine re-adding stars would make anyone mad, while on the flip side removing them is clearly criticized.

 

[Tyron]

I don’t understand the “stars aren’t helpful to creators” argument. I’m a creator. I like stars, and I get a very fair share of criticism. Some people like stars! Some people may not but it’s not like the stars are attacking you. Really, more people would be happy with stars back, and I don’t imagine re-adding stars would make anyone mad, while on the flip side removing them is clearly criticized.

I read the entire backlog, but I haven't encountered an argument for this that makes sense to me. Genuinely interested to hear your perspective—what does a star rating add to critique that wasn't already present in review content? I'm also an author, and I've never had a reason to care.

 

[Avalice]

I read the entire backlog, but I haven't encountered an argument for this that makes sense to me. Genuinely interested to hear your perspective—what does a star rating add to critique that wasn't already present in review content? I'm also an author, and I've never had a reason to care.

Well, I’ll see a lot of people write somewhat vague things on their overall opinion of the mod, and the stars help me understand. I also like seeing the general star rating of my mod, it’s just a good general indicator. The 100 character limit fixes the first point, but it doesn’t necessitate the removal of stars, nor does it negate the second point.

 

[Tyron]

Well, I’ll see a lot of people write somewhat vague things on their overall opinion of the mod, and the stars help me understand. I also like seeing the general star rating of my mod, it’s just a good general indicator. The 100 character limit fixes the first point, but it doesn’t necessitate the removal of stars, nor does it negate the second point.

I don't think I grok this one—how does a "general indicator" help you refine or improve your craft?

Learning that a ton of people dislike your addon just tells you that a ton of people...dislike your addon, not what frustrated them or confused them or what they think should change (not that they necessarily even know those things). Like I said earlier, a 1-star could mean "this crashed", "I dislike the art", "I'm having a bad day", " it runs poorly on my phone", "I'm not interested in this concept"...

The same seems true for positive ratings; if I enjoy what I create, enough to polish it and release it, what new information am I meant to receive from other people enjoying it? If they don't talk about their experience, the rating tells me nothing; if they do talk about their experience, attaching a number doesn't seem necessary or helpful.

(If vagueness is an issue, I don't know what could be more vague than someone shouting a random number.)

 

[*GOOFYRAT!*]

Alright, now I get this. It's what got me into this convo. I still think the "ratings" sorting option would be useful to find the less appreciated mods that are absolute underdogs.

Which is why I'm (Mostly, as I just like design lmao) okay with them being gone.
However, it does a good job at visual representation.
At the end of the day, it's mainly preference. Some like it, some don't.
Which is why I hope the admin see this message, as I have an idea.
Maybe an option to turn the seeing of stars on and off. That way, those who don't wanna be insecure about their mods can keep em off, and those who like the PWETTY STAWS :3333 can keep em on.

Bumping this cuz I think it would solve the following post's problems on what it adds or not. It just adds the PWETTY STAWS :3333 imo.

 

[Bartz]

Learning that a ton of people dislike your addon just tells you that a ton of people...dislike your addon, not what frustrated them or confused them or what they think should change (not that they necessarily even know those things). Like I said earlier, a 1-star could mean "this crashed", "I dislike the art", "I'm having a bad day", " it runs poorly on my phone", "I'm not interested in this concept"...

The same seems true for positive ratings; if I enjoy what I create, enough to polish it and release it, what new information am I meant to receive from other people enjoying it? If they don't talk about their experience, the rating tells me nothing; if they do talk about their experience, attaching a number doesn't seem necessary or helpful.

See, Id agree with this if it wasn't for one fact

You actually have to... write a review now. You always had to write a review with your star rating, but now it has to be more thought out. A 1 star rating alone wont mean much, but a 1 star rating with an explanation why can help to show you what people do and don't like, what works and what doesn't, what needs fixing and what works fine. Thus, you can make a update addressing such criticism, or make a update that adds new things based on the positive criticism.

Now, I do agree that people can leave unhelpful reviews. But like I said before you really don't have to care about them.

At worst, everyone complains about not liking the style of your mod, and the same applies there as well.

Hell you can even learn about, like I said: what people do and don't like. You might not use it on this project, but it can be helpful information for the future.

Star Ratings are more then just “bad mod” or “good mod”, its the text that goes with it that really makes it stand out.

 

[Grayvy Guy]

Assessing things with numbers, scores, yeah nahs and whatever has been a companion in getting a metric for ages. Just as people have the the right to be noted on enjoying and adoring something, they also have the right to be noted on hatred or frustration. It's also pretty helpful to have that negative reception or cavieats as it may bring in angles that give a new perspective to the authour, of course to their own discression.

Of course you can write that instead with something eyecatching but if anything, it's even more eye catching to see something like a rating to encite curiosity. I'm no mod creator myself but negative reviews on here have been very insightful in shaping perspective of how I look at certain mods, what I like in contrast and how I hope to see creators improve upon them after. Of course there are those that have abused them and taking the time to read should make that very obvious. Articulation is hard and ratings help bring that up.

It's also just down to whatever the authours or players own disgression because, generally, we're pretty decent at knowing what we like and don't like. In example: I doubt someone like Lightdasher is going to pay attention to or even consider what I had to say about the recent Trip mod with ratings being gutted and general reviews for that flooding in with effectively similar sentiments recycled with different words and maybe at least 1 gripe.

The ratings being removed imo is pretty equivalent to YouTube removing dislikes and just makes the forum look a lot more immature compared to other mod sites that allow discussion. GameBanana, Steam Workshop and Doomworld are general examples to which modding communities with interactive feedback should at least attempt to be like (give or take certain dramas depending on each) which for at least the former two there's typically a lot of younger people using those platforms, still with their own rating systems and community interactions.

Plus in terms of what I've been hearing about this community lately, removing ratings is probably the last thing that should be done with what has been said about certain others among smaller groups and hugboxes. If anything better transparency is really what should be looked into.

 

[XtremeXavier]

Star Ratings are more then just “bad mod” or “good mod”, its the text that goes with it that really makes it stand out.

If it's the text that makes the review, I don't see why nixing stars makes a difference. Score doesn't preclude the review being insightful.

I like the thought of steam's recommendation system a good deal more than bringing back stars. Explaining why you'd play something is quite a bit more useful than explaining what you'd score it.

 

[*GOOFYRAT!*]

See, Id agree with this if it wasn't for one fact

You actually have to... write a review now. You always had to write a review with your star rating, but now it has to be more thought out. A 1 star rating alone wont mean much, but a 1 star rating with an explanation why can help to show you what people do and don't like, what works and what doesn't, what needs fixing and what works fine. Thus, you can make a update addressing such criticism, or make a update that adds new things based on the positive criticism.

Now, I do agree that people can leave unhelpful reviews. But like I said before you really don't have to care about them.

At worst, everyone complains about not liking the style of your mod, and the same applies there as well.

Hell you can even learn about, like I said: what people do and don't like. You might not use it on this project, but it can be helpful information for the future.

Star Ratings are more then just “bad mod” or “good mod”, its the text that goes with it that really makes it stand out.

So you're just a lazy beeyotch? :3

 

[Bartz]

If it's the text that makes the review, I don't see why nixing stars makes a difference.

Like I've says before, it is a basic visual representation that makes it easier on the reviewer and the person getting the review.

So you're just a lazy beeyotch? :3

Ah yes, I do suppose I am a lazy bitch, Because I simply want things to be convenient.

I guess because you can wash and dry your clothes outside, you don't need a convenient method like dryer/washing machine. Even more so because they were around for a very good while.

They should obviously just stop making them and you shouldn't use them either. Everyone that does use them is just a lazy bitch, afterall.

 

[*GOOFYRAT!*]

Like I've says before, it is a basic visual representation that makes it easier on the reviewer and the person getting the review.


Ah yes, I do suppose I am a lazy bitch, Because I simply want things to be convenient.

I guess because you can wash and dry your clothes outside, you don't need a convenient method like dryer/washing machine. Even more so because they were around for a very good while.

They should obviously just stop making them and you shouldn't use them either. Everyone that does use them is just a lazy bitch, afterall.

You ever heard of a satire joke, dumbass?