2.3 Discussion

[C.D. Dinosaur]

The only thing still missing is that you can't see the Greenflower City ruins anywhere

Wasn't Green flower city retconned out of existence come 2.2?

 

[Julia]

Wasn't Green flower city retconned out of existence come 2.2?

Not the place, but the fact Eggman basically killed everyone in said city, which was the case before.

 

[Sls64LGamingBro]

Not the place, but the fact Eggman basically killed everyone in said city, which was the case before.

Well, in the intro cutscene. You only see Greenflower Mountain destroyed by Eggman, Even though Greenflower City could've been behind Greenflower's Mountains. So, technically their off screen.

EDIT: Also, on topic. I think keeping the original GFZ1 is the best choice for creators, since it's just the level's beginning. As it teaches players how to use Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles Abilities in other zones. Also, maybe add some sort of ending for the momentum to be used. Instead of rehashing the hole stage.

 

[InfernoMelon]

GFZ has always been on an island, it's just more visually apparent this is the case now. The general implication is that THZ takes place on the same island as well, with Sonic and friends gradually making their way closer to one of Eggman's factories. The only thing still missing is that you can't see the Greenflower City ruins anywhere, although that might be what DCZ ends up actually being.

Yeah, by making GFZ more island-like, it's makes it looks more unimpressed/bland compared to current GFZ1 more closed-in looks, again compared to other island-like levels in the Official Sonic games

It blows the redesigned GFZ1 "island" out the water compared to the amount of detail these levels to make it more reasonable/lived place in the Sonic franchise

Honestly it doesn't really look all that different in terms of openness, it just looks like the player has a bit more freedom when it comes to traversing over what used to be harder (but still possible) to scale walls, creating a larger number of viable pathways for the player to take through the same area. The actual size and layout seems generally the same otherwise. It just seems easier to make use of mobility to your advantage using slopes, which if anything just means the level will be faster to speedrun through if you're so inclined and easier to explore if you're not.

The openness just makes the level looks weird and unfinished imo

 

[C.D. Dinosaur]

The openness just makes the level looks weird and unfinished imo

It looks unfinished because it is lmao

 

[Sls64LGamingBro]

It looks unfinished because it is lmao

It's still gonna change whenever the developers decide to. It's strange how unfinished it is, they should've stick with the original GFZ1 honestly, lmao.

 

[InfernoMelon]

It looks unfinished because it is lmao

View attachment 119986

Yeah, I know that I literally said "I know it's a wip" in one of my posts

 

[time gear]

Yeah, by making GFZ more island-like, it's makes it looks more unimpressed/bland compared to current GFZ1 more closed-in looks, again compared to other island-like levels in the Official Sonic games

It blows the redesigned GFZ1 "island" out the water compared to the amount of detail these levels to make it more reasonable/lived place in the Sonic franchise

I'm not really sure what you are complaining about here. It seems like your complaint is that making a place that takes place on an island actually look like it takes place on an island makes it worse and you want a more closed in look, except for in other games you also like in which case looking like an actual island environment is fine? I'm not really understanding what the problem is.

Also yes, of course it looks unfinished, because it is unfinished. WIP content looking like WIP isn't a criticism, it's just complaining.

 

[InfernoMelon]

It's still gonna change whenever the developers decide to. It's strange how unfinished it is, they should've stick with the original GFZ1 honestly, lmao.

EXACTLY, I don't get the point of these redesigns (for the second time btw) it's just postponing the 2.3 release even more by adding more and more work (still don't wanna them rush it tho) but it's important have people give feedback for changes instead changing it because you feel like it

 

[Sls64LGamingBro]

EXACTLY, I don't get the point of these redesigns (for the second time btw)

It's because there using this for the accel-momentum thingy for 2.3, as they stated.

it's just postponing the 2.3 release even more by adding more and more work (still don't wanna them rush it tho) but it's important have people give feedback for changes instead changing it because you feel like it

There's more than just add more and more work actually, there's A LOT that's being covered in 2.3, plus, there's a good chunk of stuff that's apart of 2.3, but it's only in discord, so I suggest going in discord for more information on 2.3's current development.

 

[InfernoMelon]

I'm not really sure what you are complaining about here. It seems like your complaint is that making a place that takes place on an island actually look like it takes place on an island makes it worse and you want a more closed in look, except for in other games you also like in which case looking like an actual island environment is fine? I'm not really understanding what the problem is.

Also yes, of course it looks unfinished, because it is unfinished. WIP content looking like WIP isn't a criticism, it's just complaining.

My complaint is it's looks bland as hell compared to the current one also the "an actual island environment" thing is kinda what I'm saying (also not lol) I just want more detail if they keep continuing this more open-like levels like give it more flare I guess or in simple words,

make it more like green hill from Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)

Less like green hill from Sonic Adventure 2
(again, I know it's a W. I. P)

 

[time gear]

My complaint is it's looks bland as hell compared to the current one also the "an actual island environment" thing is kinda what I'm saying (also not lol) I just want more detail if they keep continuing this more open-like levels like give it more flare I guess or in simple words,
View attachment 119989 make it more like green hill from Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)
View attachment 119990Less like green hill from Sonic Adventure 2
(again, I know it's a W. I. P)

Honestly, the new GFZ doesn't look anything even remotely close to Green Hill from Adventure 2, it's more like a somewhat less linear Seaside Hill with a nicer looking wall texture and no ruins aesthetic. And again, complaining about something unfinished looking unfinished isn't criticism, it's just complaining. Saying that you know it's unfinished doesn't make complaining about it looking unfinished more valid. It just means that you know you're complaining about something just to complain about it. Of course it's going to look better when it's actually finished; finished houses generally look better than half built ones.

 

[InfernoMelon]

Honestly, the new GFZ doesn't look anything even remotely close to Green Hill from Adventure 2, it's more like a somewhat less linear Seaside Hill with a nicer looking wall texture and no ruins aesthetic. And again, complaining about something unfinished looking unfinished isn't criticism, it's just complaining. Saying that you know it's unfinished doesn't make complaining about it looking unfinished more valid. It just means that you know you're complaining about something just to complain about it. Of course it's going to look better when it's actually finished; finished houses generally look better than half built ones.

I guess, I can't say my thoughts about anything anymore (aka all I do is complain), welp I'm done with this conversation

 

[time gear]

I guess, I can't say my thoughts about anything anymore (aka all I do is complain)

That's not even remotely close to what I said. Instead of that being the takeaway you get from this, I would suggest making your criticism more constructive; be specific and give suggestions. Instead of just saying "This looks unfinished" to something that's obviously unfinished, say something like "I'd like this more if the areas closer to water had more sand like beaches", or even an example from me slightly earlier in the thread:

The only difference I'd probably try would be to make the dangerous water that kills you darker blue to look more like the ocean, and have the safe water a lighter blue to create the visual of it being more shallow freshwater that is safe to enter. Basically, swapping the colors of what kills you and what doesn't.

 

[InfernoMelon]

That's not even remotely close to what I said. Instead of that being the takeaway you get from this, I would suggest making your criticism more constructive; be specific and give suggestions. Instead of just saying "This looks unfinished" to something that's obviously unfinished, say something like "I'd like this more if the areas closer to water had more sand like beaches", or even an example from me slightly earlier in the thread:

Oh. my. God.

I literally said it should add more detail like the Official Sonic Games (TWICE, TWICE) or give it more flare to make it more interesting and less bland
But NO, I shouldn't complain about the clearly WIP state, ffs I'm literally being constructive by suggesting this but NAH, you """complain""" too much

 

[Sls64LGamingBro]

you """complain""" too much

That's just unnecessary for you to say that in the weirdest way possible. You could've just said it in your head. And please, don't be negative and call out people "complaining in the stupidest way possible".

You can not disrespect people in forums. People go on forums to agree or have their own opinions. Not pushing them over and saying things that are hurtful and not constructive criticism.

 

[time gear]

Oh. my. God.

I literally said it should add more detail like the Official Sonic Games (TWICE, TWICE) or give it more flare to make it more interesting and less bland
But NO, I shouldn't complain about the clearly WIP state, ffs I'm literally being constructive by suggesting this but NAH, you """complain""" too much

"Add more detail like the official games", "Give it more flare", and "Make it more interesting and less bland" aren't being specific. That's as vague as it gets. What kinds of details that the official games have that aren't here? What do you mean exactly by giving it more flare? What do you mean exactly by making it more interesting and less bland? If you aren't being specific, you aren't being helpful. It's like if you are making something and someone comes up to you and says "Do a better job". You're going to be thinking "That doesn't help me. Do a better job how? What is it exactly I'm doing wrong and what can I do to make it better?".

 

[InfernoMelon]

"Add more detail like the official games", "Give it more flare", and "Make it more interesting and less bland" aren't being specific. That's as vague as it gets. What kinds of details that the official games have that aren't here? What do you mean exactly by giving it more flare? What do you mean exactly by making it more interesting and less bland? If you aren't being specific, you aren't being helpful. It's like if you are making something and someone comes up to you and says "Do a better job". You're going to be thinking "That doesn't help me. Do a better job how? What is it exactly I'm doing wrong and what can I do to make it better?".

I. literally. said. this.

I WAS being specific by showing WHAT adding more detail IS by showing an example of Green Hill from Sonic 1 and if you see the image, it has DETAIL, to vibrant colors and detailed background, it makes the level pop out more, making it memorable stage in the Sonic franchise

and said this TWICE, hell THRE-
to know what nvm, I'm not going continue this, it's clearly making mad as hell (and me being mad stressed me out) and I don't wanna get banned on something stupid like this and AGAIN, I'm discontinuing this conversation and if reply again, (and I'm honestly being very respectful here) pls have something new to say, I don't wanna repeat myself for the fourth now

I'm taking an break
Also, In the end, I just want more detail for the redesigned GFZ1 thing to make it stand out more and less bland, that's all I'm saying

 

[time gear]

I WAS being specific by showing WHAT adding more detail IS by showing an example of Green Hill from Sonic 1 and if you see the image, it has DETAIL, to vibrant colors and detailed background, it makes the level pop out more, making it memorable stage in the Sonic franchise

You don't seem to understand that we don't live inside your head. You're speaking as if you expect us to just instinctively know what your personal subjective definitions of things like "detail" and "flare" and "interesting" and "bland" and etc. are. For instance, you're using a screenshot of Sonic 1's Green Hill as an example of what you want, pointing to things such as it having vibrant colors and a detailed background, and then pointing to SA2's Green Hill as an example of not being what you want, despite it looking almost exactly the same except in 3D, to the point that it literally has the same background and even more vibrant grass.

What is it that makes Green Hill's background better than Greenflower's background? What is it specifically that you think is lacking vibrancy in Greenflower? What is it about Sonic 1's Green Hill specifically that makes it more like what you are looking for in regards to detail that Greenflower is lacking? Is it the trees? Is it the water effects? Constructive criticism requires specificity. If you're not being specific about what it is you exactly mean when you say things, all that anyone is going to be able to get out of it is that you don't like it, which isn't particularly constructive in that it doesn't give anything to work with. It's important to remember that we don't live inside your head. You need to elaborate on what you mean or nobody else can reasonably be expected to understand and get anything helpful out of it.

to know what nvm, I'm not going continue this, it's clearly making mad as hell

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just trying to help you to understand. Take a moment to step back and consider the points I'm trying to make with an open mind. If you can't control your emotions in discussions regarding criticism, you aren't going to have a very good time trying to deliver it.

I'm discontinuing this conversation and if reply again, (and I'm honestly being very respectful here) pls have something new to say, I don't wanna repeat myself for the fourth now

I can't do anything to force you to understand the points I'm trying to get across. You repeatedly not understanding is naturally going to lead to me trying to explain the same thing again. There's not much value in a random tangent into some completely unrelated thing in a reply to you just for the sake of having something "new" to say.

I just want more detail for the redesigned GFZ1 thing to make it stand out more and less bland, that's all I'm saying

And this is an example of what I'm trying to say. What do you mean by more detail? What is lacking detail? What kinds of details would you add? What is it that makes it not stand out? What would you suggest could be changed or added to make it stand out more? What is it that makes it bland? How would you change it to make it less bland? This is what I mean by being specific. All I can get out of what you've said here is that you don't like it. You're not specifying what exactly you mean, and so it gives little more to work with than just "Do better".

 

[XtremeXavier]

To the thoughts on presentation, I’ll venture that said screenshots are several months out of date by now and GFZ’s appearance has developed considerably since then.

you see, the entire gameplay was designed specifically for the keyboard and mouse. SRB2 requires fast and precise movements that are only possible with the mouse. SRB2 was originally designed for computers (using a keyboard and mouse) and I believe that SRB2 is the only Sonic game (unlike all official and fan games) that is designed specifically for the computer. I think this argument is completely false.

of course, you are a developer, you know better

Yes, I do. KB+M is not the only way to play the game anymore and while it will likely remain the primary control scheme, I’m not sure why there’s bias against making it more accessible to others.