2.1 Emblem Feedback

[Mystic]

So, it's now been several months since the release of 2.1, and now that the hype has died down and everyone has had time to really sink their teeth into the release, I'd like to get some feedback on the new emblem system to find out if my grand experiment was successful or not. Please feel free to provide feedback regardless of how far you got in the hunt, as I really want to get feedback from a variety of player mindsets and skill levels. Some simple questions for you all:

• How many emblems did you get?
• Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?
• Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?
• Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?

Obviously, general feedback on the emblem system unrelated to the above questions is also appreciated. This topic is likely to contain some spoilers in the replies, so if you're still in the process of hunting for the emblems, you might not want to read beyond this point.

 

[Zwip-Zwap Zapony]

How many emblems did you get?

In 23 hours, 18 minutes, and 43 seconds of "unmodified" playtime, 106/160.

Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?

I absolutely loved the hint and radar system. But I have to admit, I had to rely on guides for getting stuff like the score emblem in Green Flower Zone act 1, and certain other emblems before I unlocked the radar. Don't remember which.

Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?

I found the record attack requirements... okay. I remember two or three of the time emblems clearly being for Sonic, as I beat them by +20 seconds as Tails in first try, despite screwing up majorly a lot. (I think THZ2 was one of them.) Many others I have yet to beat. The Rings ones are the easiest for me to get.

Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?

It's completely horrible... Then I unlocked the hints, and it got into an okay guessing game, though I had to rely to the wiki for a few emblem locations, and then I unlocked the radar, and it got quite fun. (By quite, I mean as fun as it could be without being too easy.)

Obviously, general feedback on the emblem system unrelated to the above questions is also appreciated.

General feedback: wat how do get time emblems in nights mode (Seriously, those are insanely... well, impossible for me to get. It takes me several tries just to beat ESZ (7th special stage) to get the emerald in single player, but then having to do it so much faster?)

 

[gregory_house]

Not a lot of people are probably going to share the same opinion, but I guess this is still part of the "variety of player mindsets", so here we go.

How many emblems did you get?

After nearly 60 hours of gameplay, mostly online, 32/160.

Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?

I can't really say anything about this radar system, obviously (honestly, if it weren't for the little wiki research I just did before posting, I wouldn't even know it existed), and haven't unlocked the hints either, but by looking at them on the wiki, they seem alright, not too difficult to understand at all, they really feel like they would be of great help when needed.

Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?

I honestly only looked at the time attack requirements, and they are indeed reasonable. Some of them might not be easy for a first-time player, (and that's probably intended) but with a little practice it can be done no problem. The fact that there are no skin restrictions can help a lot, both with using a character that you're faster with to beat an otherwise hard time, or trying to find fun ways to beat the time with a skin when it's clear that the recommended character is another (if you're into this).

Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?

Then we get to this part. Again, just part of my particular mindset, but no, not at all. The emblems I have are basically the ones I ran into/obtained during my first playthrough, and a couple time attack ones, but that's it.
Don't get me wrong, it's not 2.1's system in particular that I don't like (I didn't care about emblems in older versions either, and for whoever actually enjoys collecting them, I think this new system will be a very welcome new feature), I just don't think finding emblems adds much replay value, when by replay value you mean not only just spending more time on the game to collect goodies, but actually having fun doing so.

 

[Badnik]

Let's see...

• I got all 160 emblems.
• The emblem hints were useful and the radar was what it took to find the last few hidden emblems that I couldn't get to with hints.
• The record attack requirements are fine (though I find that RVZ1 is a bit too easy with them), but extremely long score hunts in large levels like CEZ2, THZ2 or AGZ aren't very fun, especially if you mess up and have to redo it all. I also find score attack emblems make ring attack emblems redundant, because most of the time I got enough rings to fulfill the ring requirement when going for the score emblem anyway!
• Overall hunting down the emblems was fun, except for the aforementioned long score hunts.

 

[Eblo]

How many emblems did you get?

102

Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?

Finding emblems surprisingly proved to be enjoyable for me, and unlocking a radar felt like an adequate reward that encouraged further scavenging. I believe I found every emblem "hidden" in the main campaign without resorting to a guide.

Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?

The time and ring requirements are reasonable, but not so much for the score. More on this below.

Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?

Time emblems are a joy to play for, and they actually provide a "concrete" reason to use time attack. Ring emblems are doable, but all it really tests is the player's ability to avoid getting hit one too many times. Ring collection is rather dull, and it makes playing the levels flat-out boring. Score emblems are worse because some levels are plain ridiculous—GFZ1 is almost impossible unless you arduously gather the slow-moving Blue Crawlas into one spot to rack up points by chaining them. A time limit actually makes me use my skill in traversing a level in the quickest manner, whereas needing to kill every enemy strategically and to collect every ring without getting hit manages to be a huge turn-off.

 

[Ors]

• How many emblems did you get?

160/160! I don't remember how much playtime I used for the emblems when I made it but nearly 20 hours.

• Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?

Emblem hints and raddar were quite overpowered. I think they should be nerfed somehow. That's why the only hard emblems for me were NiGHTS Blackhole emblems.

• Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?

They were not at least too hard. =) The score-attack was still fun. It recuires some patiency and logical thinking while playing. The skills help too. I think the time-attack was still too easy and it needs some kind of "Rainbow A" of NiGHTS mode. I didn't really like ring-attack. It was alwasy very easy to find the amount of the rings and the only challenge was not to get tired while hunting the rings for hours.

• Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?

Mostly yes. The things I didn't like in that were the DSZ2 emblem in the dark tube. I couldn't hit the emblem in that darkness before I had tried that at least 15 minutes; and the other thing I didn't like was the NiGHTS emblems. I think it should be some kind of a minigame with separate emblem of the other SRB2 gameplay. (120 emblems and 40 NiGHTS emblems) NiGHTS and the rest of SRB2 feel like whole different games.
There was still some great ones too. Azure Temple emblems like "Nuke emblem", "Tails/Knuckles way emblem" with tons of buzzes and the emblem that makes the raddar feel crazy were a bit challenging and great fun to look for.

 

[Lat']

Well, in almost 28 hours of game, I have 135 of the 160 emblems.
The emblems hint and radar were quite useful to find some emblems, but it sometimes goes crazy near a wall because an emblem is behind it, which makes me search in the room... for nothing.

Most of the record attack requirements were fun and challenging, but some are way too long or/and way too difficult! I totally given up on score emblems since I do not help myself with the wiki, and seriously, I had to obtain the perfect bonus basically EVERYWHERE The score requirements should be nerfed down, really.
I am okay with time and rings emblems tough, even if I had some problems with them because my PC has lots of trouble with SRB2 while in-game...

Now, I am coming up with Azure Temple. I had absolutely no problems with ANY emblems to find in the levels, but this... I have absolutely no fun playing this level, first, it annoys me at a point! And it's even more outrageous for me to search for emblems that are in... TONS OF FUCKING BUZZES?! And I won't even talk of the nuke emblem... How am I supposed to do it, with my amazing laptop? :D

Now, NiGHTS stages! I found them really funny and challenging for the A rank, even Egg Sattelite was really fun with my laptop! My only problem is Black Hole, I didn't finish it because I really suck at NiGHTS (And again because of my laptop) X). But also, I do not see the point of hiding emblems in NiGHTS stages, this is pointless... And way too easy with emblem radar on, this should turn off upon entering special stages.

Basically all the emblems are really fun to obtain, the ones I talked about could also be if I had no issues with the game (Control freeze, crazy FPS...)

EDIT: Forgot about SRB1 remake emblem:
Just. remove. this. No seriously, I had no fun playing this, I just completed it for the emblem and nothing else since the player isn't rewarded by anything other than a small emblem. At least, there are not emblems hidden in there...

 

[MascaraSnake]

I totally given up on score emblems since I do not help myself with the wiki, and seriously, I had to obtain the perfect bonus basically EVERYWHERE

I don't think the perfect bonus is necessary for any of the score emblems. There are a few maps where you have to kill a bunch of enemies in one move, but in the others, it will suffice if you collect a bunch of 1-ups and bring a decent amount of rings to the finish.

 

[Lat']

I don't think the perfect bonus is necessary for any of the score emblems. There are a few maps where you have to kill a bunch of enemies in one move, but in the others, it will suffice if you collect a bunch of 1-ups and bring a decent amount of rings to the finish.

What about DSZ2? I tried and tried again but I never came across this emblem ;_; (Not gonna use the wiki, I'm not cheating...) Anyways, my real problem will be Azure Temple's score-time-ring emblems...

 

[MascaraSnake]

DSZ2 requires 50,000 points. If you find two 1-ups that give you 10,000 points and collect 300 rings, and you're good to go.

 

[Sryder]

How many emblems did you get?

I got all 160 emblems in about 5 days IIRC.

Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?

I loved the emblem hint system because it made my use my knowledge of the levels to find the emblems other than just being a sluggish hunt around every corner for them. The emblem radar I didn't really get the chance to use much since by the time I'd unlocked it I already had most of the hidden emblems anyway. There was 1 emblem I still couldn't find with the emblem hints and radar which was in Azure Temple Zone. It was the one which requires you to go to the small fan area that sends you upwards, the emblem radar had me looking in the wrong place for the entrance, and I could not see the corner with the fan because of the brightness and colours of the rooms.

Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?

These all seemed reasonable for the most part. Time and Ring emblems were fine since they mostly tested your skill with speed and avoidance of hazards. Score emblems seemed a bit irrelevant for the most part since I usually got them when going for the ring emblem, and they really just slowed me to a crawl trying to rack up all of the points to get it. There were few score emblems that I thought were interesting to try and get, Greenflower Zone 1 and Azure Temple Zone were 2 of these few that stood out.

Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten them all. None of them seemed unnecessarily unfair and were all perfectly achievable with some practice.

 

[Ors]

What about DSZ2? I tried and tried again but I never came across this emblem ;_; (Not gonna use the wiki, I'm not cheating...) Anyways, my real problem will be Azure Temple's score-time-ring emblems...

Azure temple is not very hard for score attackers when you find the trick. If you just go to the "room with TONS OF FUCKING BUZZES?!" with the things you need, you can find a trick to get the score emblem. ;)

 

[Lat']

Azure temple is not very hard for score attackers when you find the trick. If you just go to the "room with TONS OF FUCKING BUZZES?!" with the things you need, you can find a trick to get the score emblem. ;)

Let me guess:

Spoiler

A elemental shield to avoid bubbles and Knuckles, you are a GENIUS!

 

[Joosp]

How many emblems did you get?

In a total play time of 18 hours, 37 minutes and 54 seconds, only 35 emblems out of 160.

Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?

I never found enough emblems to retrieve the hint and radar system in regular SRB2, but I did get a chance to use it in Clock Towers Zone. It was rather neat to follow hints to find emblems and it definitely makes it a lot easier to get to them if you understand the riddles there. I guess I can't really say much on the topic of the regular game however.

Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?

I've only attempted record attack maybe four or five times. The requirements usually require smart thinking in order to break (specifically Score Attack) which definitely isn't a bad thing. Breaking records isn't really my cup of tea in the first place, so I'll just stop there.

Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?

As you can tell from my final score of 35/160, I never really went out of my way to go hunt for emblems. I just enjoyed playing through levels as intended rather than poking around every single nook and cranny looking for emblems. I don't have a problem with emblems and I'm sure many people enjoyed looking around for them, but I'd rather stick to the main course.

 

[PrismaticAngel]

How many emblems did you get?

All of them, after a month or so I think?

Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?

I like it, they do their job well, even if some emblems were still hard to find.

Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?

They were pretty reasonable I guess, it's just that some levels are harder than others. *coughATZcough*

Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?

Yeah, it's much better than the ones from earlier versions.

 

[742mph]

How many emblems did you get?

97/160, although I haven't been actively trying to get them lately.

Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?

I loved the emblem hints. They made hunting for emblems in levels feel more like a puzzle and less like a tedious scavenger hunt. Same goes for the emblem radar, although I found it slightly less useful than the hints. I'd encourage you to have the player unlock one of them upon beating the game for the first time so they don't wind up wandering all over the levels with no idea where to look. The AGZ and ATZ emblems are a little too well-hidden in my opinion, but they're in bonus levels so I guess they're supposed to be infuriatingly hard to find.

Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?

The time attack emblem requirements were about as fair as they could be, although I thought DSZ2's and ERZ3's were a little too strict. As for the score and ring attack emblems, well... this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think their very existence is complete bullshit. In my view, all of the extra/bonus content in any video game should have something to do with the core style of gameplay, and running all over the level trying to grab every single ring you can find doesn't at all resemble how the player normally interacts with rings or the level architecture. If anything, it's as if you scattered 75-100 emblems around a level, only half or so of which were in plain sight, and told me to get at least 60 in a single run. Score attack at least requires you to be creative, but it's the kind of creativity that completely goes against how the game teaches you to think. Score barely matters at all during the normal SP campaign, so when it comes time for a player to try their hand at score attack, they'll most likely be left in the dark as to how to proceed. Hell, if they've only played through single-player once or twice, they might not even know about invincibility chains or the power of a correctly-placed Armageddon Shield.

Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?

For the most part, yes. I thoroughly enjoyed hunting for emblems hidden in the stages themselves, and learning all of the shortcuts that can be taken in a single level to get its time attack emblem was the best kind of trial-and-error. However, as mentioned above, I'm not a fan of the new score and ring attack emblems. Score/ring attack should definitely stay as part of Record Attack for the people who enjoy those modes, but I don't think they resemble the rest of SRB2 enough to count toward unlocking anything. (This is also why I'm against emblems in the NiGHTS special stages, but that's another rant for another time.)

 

[Kaysakado]

How many emblems did you get?
146 - I'm only missing the score/ring emblems on longer stages.

Did you like the emblem hint and radar system? If there were any hidden emblems that you still couldn't find and had to resort to a guide, which ones were they?
I thought the system was very effective - you can reasonably get enough emblems without access to the hints/radar that it's unlikely for a player to be stumped by an emblem before having unlocked the tools that can help. The hidden emblem that gave me the most trouble (though I didn't use a guide) was behind the trick bookshelf in CEZ2 - I only found it after brute forcing every bookshelf I could find. This one is particularly troublesome, I think, because there are other trick walls and bookshelves in CEZ2 that give you an indication that there's something behind them, like a ring in front of it. In addition, this emblem's bookshelf is the only one that acts the way it does.

Did you find the record attack requirements reasonable? Again, if any of them felt too hard (or too easy for that matter), which ones were they?
I felt that the time requirements are far more lenient in 2.1 than they were in 2.0 and 1.09.4. A system based on individual level requirements should probably allow less room for error than a system based on a total time.

Ring and score requirements were alright, but I wasn't a fan of these emblems themselves (see below)

NiGHTS emblem requirements were solid all-around, but I feel like the lower grade requirements could probably be lowered (i.e., someone playing through the campaign and only going through the track once, but going through it really solidly probably deserves a C rather than an E. I kind of like Sonic Adventure 2 as a model, where you'd generally get an A or B when going for score, a B or C for going through the stage without screwing up, and Ds and Es were reserved for runs with bad deaths or speedruns)

Did you find the emblem collection aspect of 2.1 fun?
I really loved the hidden emblems. There are plenty, though, that Tails and Knuckles trivialize, which is a tricky problem to navigate, but not a huge one. On the other hand, the few emblems that de facto require you to be a certain character are kind of frustrating, though I understand why they exist.

The NiGHTS hidden emblems are kind of garbage, too - there just really aren't good places to hide them on a 2D track; many of them feel like copies of each other in that they're hidden using the same methods.

I like the record attack system much better than in previous versions of SRB2. However, the ring and score emblems felt like a chore in most levels. Though they could usually be gotten together (making them feel redundant), they're huge timesinks and don't require much knowledge of the map or skill - just patience and the ability to avoid getting hit for a long period of time. A possible solution for the score emblem would be to require a certain score within a certain period of time - this would require the player to know where the big points are and hit them quickly. It also brings back the relevancy of the time bonus to score attack; as it is now, it's easier when going for the emblem to just take your time and assume you won't get any time bonus. The major exception being GFZ1.

Just want to add, that the score/ring emblems I have left I all feel are perfectly doable. It's just that when I play SRB2, I'd much rather be spending my time on other parts of the game - and knowing that all your progress towards one of these emblems could be lost from one misjump is kind of a turnoff. Compared to, say, speedrunning where dying will lose you probably a minute of your time - and you're working towards a goal that requires more from you than just spending time.

 

[Unknownlight]

• 144. I'm missing a bunch of Score/Ring emblems, the Black Hole emblems, and the Armageddon Shield emblem in ATZ.
• The emblem hint system was great! Of course, I'm a fan of riddles like that, and I liked my knowledge of the stage being tested. Unfortunately, I'd pretty much collected all of the in-level emblems before I unlocked the emblem radar. The one emblem I couldn't find was behind the pushable bookcase in CEZ2. Ironically, the reason I couldn't find it was because I thought that pushable doors that swing on a hinge was impossible using SRB2's engine, so I never tried just pushing forward. I didn't use a guide to find it, I instead activated noclip and walked through every bookcase until I found the hidden passage.
• It's been months since went on my emblem hunt, so I can't quite remember. None of the time emblems were unfair, at least.
• The in-level emblems were a blast, and so were the time attack emblems. The score and ring emblems? Arduous slogs that I didn't have the patience to complete. I think the ring emblems would be fine on their own, it's just that you usually get the ring emblems by default whenever you try for the score emblems, so I only made attempts on the latter. And goddamn are the score emblems boring. I don't mind their inclusion in the game—they're completely optional, so I just decided not to play them—but if you're looking for feedback then I'll say I didn't have fun with them at all. It would take some creativity, but I think an "Achievement" emblem would be better than a score emblem—every stage has some arbitrary requirement you need to fulfil to get the emblem. In GFZ2, for example, it can be "As Sonic, get through the first hallway without touching the ground" so that the player is forced to crawla-bounce through it. I'm not really sure. Just throwing ideas out there.

Thanks for making SRB2 awesome!

 

[fickleheart]

I have 137 emblems. Here's my list.

I loved the emblem hints, less for their practical use and more because I enjoyed the haiku. (That said, maybe mix it up a bit for hidden levels and go for some limericks or something?) They did help getting some of the emblems, though, although I can't quite remember which ones. The radar felt a bit like cheating, but by the time I got it I had most of the emblems hidden in levels so it balanced out. I haven't gone to guides for any emblems (that I remember doing), simply not getting the ones I couldn't figure out or didn't want to waste another hour trying to get. :C

Record Attack requirements varied in reasonableness. It's been too long since I got a lot of them, but a few stuck out from memory:

• GFZ1's score attack emblem is really clever, and a great way to make players think about enemy chaining. That said, I think it's a bit difficult, and most of that is due to the ridiculously bad time bonus modifications to 2.1. 100k points is too many points for a time bonus and I kind of feel that tier should be removed and bonuses start at 50k again. Then this can be less about ridiculous precision and more about just getting a big enemy chain.
• THZ2's time emblem is... I used to hate it because it seemed impossible to get as Sonic, but that was when I used bad routes through the level. Now it's almost too easy. Would a 1:45 still be fair?
• ACZ1 has a ton of amazing shortcuts for time attack and I almost wish the time requirement was a bit stricter to force people to think about them. 1:45 would definitely be doable when one gets the Snailer bounce after the second(?) starpost. (I'm going off of memory, but it's the one right before the big path split; the snailer bounce lands you closer along the right path)
• This isn't really record attack, but it kind of is so I'll mention it; add a way, however convoluted, for Sonic to reach those two ring boxes in RVZ1 so he can perfect bonus the stage.
• ERZ1's score emblem is a fucking joke. I didn't even go exploring through the left path (the short one!) and got it easy.
• ERZ2's time emblem feels a bit generous, but I totally understand why it'd be that way since you want humans with lives to be able to get some of these.
• AGZ's time emblem is a fucking joke as Tails. I'm not even good as him and I still got under three minutes.
• Spring Hill emblems = very yes. I want more like them.

I really love the emblem system. Score and ring attack emblems in particular are a great way to encourage different playstyles and different approaches to the level. Some cool things could still be done to make it even better, though. Suggestions:

• More unlockable levels, obviously. You already know this and it's already been brought up in Sky Sanc, so I won't elaborate. (Maybe even have other unlocks? Dinky concept art between level unlocks might be cute if those still exist.)
• What if for time emblems, instead of going off of some round base time, we actually did time attacks and put the ghost as the time to beat (making sure it was reasonable, of course)?
• As an offshoot of the above idea, developer best ghosts that get unlocked once you get a level's time emblem. To differentiate them from regular ghosts, hex edit the replays to be silver or something.
• Possibly extend the above ideas to ring and score attacks? Those likely wouldn't work nearly as well though
• Make it possible for modders to specify more than one score/etc emblem per level and have them all show up on the statistics and record attack screens. (For stuff like Space Chase!) Maybe make this easier to do by allowing modders to manually specify X offsets of emblems on the statistics and record attack screens?
• Consider doing a multiplayer "emblem" system that doesn't count toward normal emblem totals, but more acts as a bragging rights achievement measure. Possibly allow these achievement "emblems" to be gotten in modded games? (I know that would allow for easy cheating but A) if people wanna ruin the fun that's their choice and B) they wouldn't really mean anything anyway) It'd just be simple shit like "be the best player on the winning CTF team" or "win three races in a row" or etc etc.

 

[clairebun]

I don't have SRB2 on hand right now, so I'll just kind of blanket answer and say this: Emblem hints and radar system are excellent and make emblem collection fun. Ring emblems and time attack emblems are well balanced and there's a lot of strategy involved in deciding the routes to take and which characters to use to find each emblem. The only thing I don't like about this patch emblem-wise are the score emblems. It literally just feels like it encourages enemy bouncing in a lot of the levels and it's just a huge boring timesink.