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Old 07-30-2011   #101
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Please read the bits in the quote that are bold and that'll explain to you why NATZ is not good. It's not even decent! Angel Forest, which was mentioned earlier, clearly dosen't use the gimmick through the entire map, like NATZ dose except at the checkpoints/ start and finish line! And besides, AFZ is a CTF so it's ok to use this gimmick here.
Ugh... You do know Red is the person that previously mentioned that the whole zone relies on the gimmick? Right? He is pretty much against having NATZ in the game.
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Old 07-30-2011   #102
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Originally Posted by akb778 View Post
#1 reason I do not like this map - Poorly executed joke map that relies too much on using springs to get around it.
Note how RedEnchilada didn't say it was a bad or poorly executed map. Besides, please tell me why it is poorly executed. I can understand "bad concept", but "poorly executed"? Naw.

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Can we bring up Angle Forest?
Oh hell no.

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Angle Forest uses the exact same spring gimmick and still manages to be a decent CTF map
Oh hell no.

Angle Forest isn't decent at all. It forces you to spring bounce while you're trying to dodge opponents, which is something else entirely and obviously doesn't work well.

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and, thus, makes it nearly impossible to maneuver for people like me who don't play Race very much.
Well, I don't play Race at all, and I can do it just fine. Doesn't have much to do with your practice in this specific gametype. And apart from the low ceiling part, which will be nerfed, it's not difficult at all.

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Originally Posted by BotanicJet989 View Post
@SpiritCrusher Just to be clear NATZ has A TELEPORT as well.
Way to miss the point. Wacky Tesseract has (had, actually) a teleport right in the path, which is a pretty lame way out for closing the circuit of a race map. NATZ has a teleport as a failsafe if you fall down. Totally different things.

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I have to agree with glaber but I can't complete a single lap.
It's not that hard. And again, it will be easier.

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Thrust factor is important ONLY WHEN USING YOUR FEET NOT WHEN BOUNCING FROM PLATFORM TO PLATFORM!!!
Wrong. Thrust factor also determines your thrust when adjusting your movement in mid-air.

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Honestly do you even get it?
Yes. You don't, however.

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Just because YOU enjoy it dosen't mean WE will probably enjoy it bone head!
Oh great, now we're starting to insult each other. No need to get mad.

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And besides, AFZ is a CTF so it's ok to use this gimmick here.
Quite the opposite, as I explained above.

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Originally Posted by glaber View Post
Well regardless, that Night's race stage was skipped over for I don't know what reason. Who's to say NATZ won't get skipped for the same reason?
Because NATZ can hardly be made into a NiGHTS special stage, can it?
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Old 07-30-2011   #103
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Okay, so Slumber circuit was skipped for being a nights race stage. But who's to say that NATZ won't be skipped because it's a spring fest?

you say the ceiling will be nerfed, but I have a hard time buying that currently as it's the low ceiling version we have access to now.
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Old 07-30-2011   #104
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Okay, so Slumber circuit was skipped for being a nights race stage. But who's to say that NATZ won't be skipped because it's a spring fest?
No. It's being skipped because it's gonna get made into a NiGHTS special stage.

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you say the ceiling will be nerfed, but I have a hard time buying that currently as it's the low ceiling version we have access to now.
Wait, what? You're not making any sense. The version we currently have access to is the one with the low ceiling, yes. But how does that have anything to do with the fact that the ceiling will be nerfed?
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Old 07-30-2011   #105
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No. It's being skipped because it's gonna get made into a NiGHTS special stage.
maybe so, but it was being skipped even before then.

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Wait, what? You're not making any sense. The version we currently have access to is the one with the low ceiling, yes. But how does that have anything to do with the fact that the ceiling will be nerfed?
Excuse me, I do that sometimes. I'm essentially complaining about a lack of an update to what we have avaiable in an irrational way. As it stands, the level doesn't feel like Mystic made it, rather it feels like I made it. Chances are it still will even with the nerf as it centers around a gimmick I might have tried had I got the idea to do so (And I have that idea now)
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Old 07-30-2011   #106
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Originally Posted by glaber View Post
maybe so, but it was being skipped even before then.
Sorry, I was misreading you there. I thought by "skipped" you meant "left out of the rotation". My fault.

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As it stands, the level doesn't feel like Mystic made it, rather it feels like I made it. Chances are it still will even with the nerf as it centers around a gimmick I might have tried had I got the idea to do so (And I have that idea now)
You know, the difference is that Mystic executes the gimmick well.
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Old 08-01-2011   #107
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Originally Posted by SpiritCrusher View Post
I'll give you a hint: No Race map is balanced. Sonic has a natural advantage due to his speed.
Since we're kind on the topic, I propose these solutions:

1: We make Tails and Knuckles have the same stats as Sonic, as in Tails and Knuckles are as fast as Sonic.
2: We take out the Glide&Climb, Fly and Thok abilities.

With these solutions, Sonic is no longer advantaged because not only Tails and Knuckles have the same stats as him, but also because nobody can use their proper abilities -thus he cannot thokfest.

Now, I know that on one hand, it makes races more linear, but on the other it rewards skill, as it is a fair race between players.


With that out of the way, I will later give my impressions on the Public Beta levels.

Last edited by Sergeant Brown; 08-01-2011 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 08-01-2011   #108
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The problem with that is inconsistency between gametypes which should be avoided. If we really have to change the character attributes just to make Race balanced, then something is wrong with the gametype.

Besides, the solution you lined out has absolutely zero advantage over forcing everyone to use Sonic.
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Old 08-01-2011   #109
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5ICZWdDWsg

In Sonic 3's Multiplayer, despite the fact that both Sonic, Tails and Knuckles had the same attributes(not counting that Tails could fly since it was never useful anyway), the gamers could pick their favorite character out of the 3.

You're right. It's inconsistent, but I'd rather have a balanced gametype that requires skill to be good at and where you can win with all 3 characters than an unbalanced one where you always pick the fastest character because the other 2 will never lead you to victory and spam the jump button over and over.

Last edited by Sergeant Brown; 08-01-2011 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 08-01-2011   #110
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Originally Posted by Brown the dog View Post
In Sonic 3's Multiplayer, despite the fact that both Sonic, Tails and Knuckles had the same attributes(not counting that Tails could fly since it was never useful anyway), the gamers could pick their favorite character out of the 3.
I honestly think it's silly that Knuckles can't climb in multiplayer but can in single player. And I don't how you would have a "favorite character" if all three were truly equal. You might as well have only one.

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You're right. It's inconsistent, but I'd rather have a balanced gametype that requires skill to be good at and where you can win with all 3 characters than an unbalanced one where you always pick the fastest character because the other 2 will never lead you to victory and spam the jump button over and over.
Race requires skill to be good at with Sonic and spamming the jump button isn't nearly enough to win. And yes, the other two won't lead to victory, but is that honestly important? Just play as Sonic.
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Old 08-01-2011   #111
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I honestly think it's silly that Knuckles can't climb in multiplayer but can in single player. And I don't how you would have a "favorite character" if all three were truly equal. You might as well have only one.
Wow, man. That's a pretty pitiful opinion if you ask me.

Do you know why a lot of new Sonic fans choose Shadow as their favorite character? They like him not because of what he can do, but because of his personality, his style.
In Sonic 3, Sonic is the cool, good guy who's the hero of the game, Tails is his ever-so-trustworthy sidekick and Knuckles is the rough, bad guy that continuously gets in Sonic's way throughout the game. It doesn't matter what they can and can not do. What matters is if the gamers want to play as the hero, the acolyte or the bad guy.

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Race requires skill to be good at with Sonic and spamming the jump button isn't nearly enough to win. And yes, the other two won't lead to victory, but is that honestly important? Just play as Sonic.
That's the best thing I've heard all day; Thokfest not being nearly enough to win. Now, maybe it'll be true in 2.1, but for the most part in the current version, the one who thoks the most wins.

Also, what is then the point of having multiple characters if only one of them can win?

(Sergeant Brown received an infraction for this post: No flaming.)

Last edited by Sergeant Brown; 08-01-2011 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 08-01-2011   #112
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What matters is if the gamers want to play as the hero, the acolyte or the bad guy.
This choice would be absolutely pointless because all three characters would have the same abilities, the same speed; and only the character sprites were different.
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Old 08-01-2011   #113
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Did you even bothered to read what I said before that sentence?
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Old 08-01-2011   #114
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Also, what is then the point of having multiple characters if only one of them can win?
Hey, ever heard of this thing called single player mode? I heard it's pretty awesome and all three characters have a use there!
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Old 08-01-2011   #115
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Hey man, ever heard that in Race mode two of the three characters are useless because they're slower than the other one? I heard you're a developer, so you should make all 3 characters useful in that gamemode!
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Old 08-01-2011   #116
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Originally Posted by Brown the dog View Post
Wow, man. That's a pretty pitiful opinion if you ask me.
Thanks. I appreciate it when people can stick to facts and not resort to ad hominem attacks.

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Do you know why a lot of new Sonic fans choose Shadow as their favorite character? They like him not because of what he can do, but because of his personality, his style.
In Sonic 3, Sonic is the cool, good guy who's the hero of the game, Tails is his ever-so-trustworthy sidekick and Knuckles is the rough, bad guy that continuously gets in Sonic's way throughout the game. It doesn't matter what they can and can not do. What matters is if the gamers want to play as the hero, the acolyte or the bad guy.
I don't know where you're getting these personality traits from that apparently make a character so much cooler to use. They sure don't play any part in SRB2.

In all seriousness, what are you playing this game for? The gameplay or the plot? Because if you choose the plot - and it appears to me that you do - let me tell you this: SRB2 doesn't cater to you in that regard and never will. If two characters have identical abilities, one of them is useless and needs to go. The only thing that matters is indeed what they can and can not do. There is no "personality" of sorts in these characters, at least not in this game.

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That's the best thing I've heard all day; Thokfest not being nearly enough to win. Now, maybe it'll be true in 2.1, but for the most part in the current version, the one who thoks the most wins.
The player who thoks most doesn't win. The player who thoks most in the right directions wins, but even that doesn't help you if you run into walls or get hit by something. There's more to Race than thokking, but it's a part of it, yes.

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Also, what is then the point of having multiple characters if only one of them can win?
Well, if it were up to me, Knuckles and Tails would be disabled by default for Race and could only be brought back with some console command. Then again, if it were up to me, I wouldn't pay much attention to Race at all.

Also, what is the point of having multiple characters if they're all the same?

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Hey man, ever heard that in Race mode two of the three characters are useless because they're slower than the other one? I heard you're a developer, so you should make all 3 characters useful in that gamemode!
Logical fallacy: Being a developer =/= being responsible for all parts of the game.
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Old 08-01-2011   #117
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Originally Posted by SpiritCrusher View Post
Well, if it were up to me, Knuckles and Tails would be disabled by default for Race and could only be brought back with some console command.
Well then, we're in agreement: Tails and Knuckles have no place in Race.
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Old 08-01-2011   #118
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Well, they actually have a chance in some maps, so why not keep them?
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Old 08-01-2011   #119
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Originally Posted by Brown the dog
Do you know why a lot of new Sonic fans choose Shadow as their favorite character? They like him not because of what he can do, but because of his personality, his style.
How a character plays is far more important than whether or not the character is "cool". Ever hear of a metagame? In Sonic Adventure 2, Amy absolutely annihilates the entire racing cast, so anyone with half a mind would use her if trying to win.
Whoever the most efficient and useful character is the one that is going to be used. It doesn't matter whether or not the character is genuinely liked or not, which makes your entire argument here irrelevant.


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Originally Posted by Brown the dog
That's the best thing I've heard all day; Thokfest not being nearly enough to win. Now, maybe it'll be true in 2.1, but for the most part in the current version, the one who thoks the most wins.
If you're going to intentionally be blind to the others' arguments and simply call the other posters' ideas "pitiful" and laughable, stop posting. Your "lol just thok to win" argument is absolutely terrible and shows that you're either unable to comprehend the fact that a lot of legitimate skill is needed to win a race, or you're ignoring it out of spite.
Sonic is the most difficult character to use and requires a lot of fast reflexes if you're playing with anyone who's decent at the game.

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Originally Posted by Brown the dog
Also, what is then the point of having multiple characters if only one of them can win?
If they're all the same, there's no reason in having different characters.
(The race mode in Sonic 3 was made even worse due to the fact that, while the characters all have the same speed and control, Tails has an extremely powerful ability that the others do not, and can do entire courses in less than twenty seconds).
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Old 08-01-2011   #120
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Here are my reviews on the pack.

MAPR0: Race Alley Zone
Same circuit, but no visual changes or other stuff like that.

MAPR1: Sonic Circuit Zone
I like the new edits made to the map. I like that little lakeside at the start. I don't even know why SRB2 players dislike this map so much. (Due to the fact that it had a spike row)

MAPR2: Burning Sands Zone
Same layout, but no visual changes.

MAPR3: Emerald Coast Zone
I like the new shortcut at the first checkpoint where Tails and Knuckles players can go that way. After the shortcut, they come across another shortcut. Sonic players will have to go fast if they want to win.

MAPR4: Toxic Citadel Zone
Same circuit, but no visual changes.

MAPR5: Frozen Night Zone
The level is pretty good-looking if I say so myself. The ice is now broken, which makes Sonic players have a hard time trying to thok from one point to another. I even like that new tunnel for Tails and Knuckles players.

MAPR6: Metallic Hall Zone
I like the new textures imported in this. The layout is still the same, but I like the new textures.

MAPR7: Heaven Pass Zone
Same layout, but there is a linedef at the start with a unnecessary texture on it.

MAPR8: Corrupt Shrine Zone
Same layout, but no visual changes.

MAPR9: Endless Woods Zone
I think this is a great circuit that I've played so far. Sonic players will have a fun time here. (Keep the levels coming, Blade!)

MAPRA: Egg Hall Zone
Nice level with a castle-themed layout. The cannonballs and a library give it a more-castle feel. (Which reminds me that there is a library in CEZ2 on 2.1)

MAPRB: Crimson Caves Zone
Tails and Knuckles players have a huge advantage here. Sonic players don't have an advantage because they'll end up thokking in the lava.

MAPRC: Thunder Factory Zone
This is a good circuit in my opinion, but Tails players have a huge advantage here because the outside area is very wide. In my other opinion, the level looks more like a fortress than a factory.

MAPRD: Rainbow Dash Zone
I like this course, but the only thing is that when other players try to play this course, they get c-failed. Sonic thokkers have a fun time here unless they thok carelessly.

MAPRE: Not A Thokfest Zone
Really, what's a joke level doing in the pack? I'd be darned if this was in 2.1.
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Last edited by Super Chris; 08-09-2011 at 11:45 PM.
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