SRB2 Message Board  

Go Back   SRB2 Message Board > Sonic Robo Blast 2 > SRB2 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-26-2020   #21
Moose the Fat Cat
Permanently Banned
Default

I initially assumed SRB2, being a legacy project and continuation of Sonikku and SSNTails work, was generally regarded as being community owned. I liked that quite a bit and was sort of surprised that it was more of the Mystic show when looking into it more (ie joining forums).

So you could look at it like Mystic's period of leading the project was good and necessary and obviously tremendously shaped the game, but also, it may also be good/necessary that it's come to an end, making room for a new group of creators to take the next step of ownership. There's been so much good content in the Releases/Mods/Levels/Characters.

Here's to the next 20 years of SRB2 development. v4.0 by 2040 or bust!
Moose the Fat Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #22
softchassis
Call me Nadia
 
softchassis's Avatar
Default

Right, I just want to reiterate that I fully trust in the remaining staff's choices here and I do not doubt for a second that any action was taken without absolute certainty it was the best choice to do so. It is absolutely not worth keeping toxic presences around, no matter what.
softchassis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #23
Jeck Jims
Oh, THAT guy...
Developer
 
Jeck Jims's Avatar
Default

What new content did Mystic make for 2.2?








Yeah, I'm not worried.
__________________
Easy MD2 set-up
Jeck Jims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #24
Icarus
Warrior from Algol
 
Icarus's Avatar
Default

I would also suggest to remove any mention of this person from the game.
__________________
Welcome to the Fantasy Zone
Get Ready!
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #25
Winins
SRB2C Researcher
 
Winins's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
I would also suggest to remove any mention of this person from the game.
Why though? He was an SRB2 dev after all.
__________________
Listen
Winins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #26
DylanDude
Overeager Raposa
 
DylanDude's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winins View Post
Why though? He was an SRB2 dev after all.
People like Spazzo and JTE are still listed in the credits, despite both having been since banned from the community for past incidents.
__________________
Quote:
<Tippi> (And I'm going to believe in HIM most of all...)
DylanDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #27
MascaraSnake
Retired
 
MascaraSnake's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobaltBW View Post
In the interests of professionality, I'll refrain from commenting on the events leading up to the team's internal restructuring in much detail. However, I'd strongly encourage any skeptics to consider that the team would not have followed through with this series of decisions if there wasn't a massive amount of precedent to do so.
On the flipside, the fact that several team members decided to leave as a direct result of this might suggest that things are not that cut and dry.

An impression is being created here that Mystic, Rob and Prime 2.0 were "toxic presences" in the dev team and therefore had to be removed. It's impossible to comment on that without going into internals that don't belong here, but let the record state that not everyone agrees.
MascaraSnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #28
Charybdizs
it's lamp for supper, kids
Moderator
 
Charybdizs's Avatar
Default

Your sarcastic quotations on "toxic" speak volumes to me of how little you understand this community and the effect they've had on it for years. You just sound like an ostrich with your head in the sand to me.

Just like FuriousFox clowning around in the CS the other day and making a surprised pikachu face when he realized they would not really be all that missed!

Ew! Gaslighting!
__________________
Planning ahead is for ninnies who think they can predict every possible outcome. The future is mutable! Go with the flow!
Charybdizs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #29
Trolo Bobo
Get "N" or get out!
 
Trolo Bobo's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MascaraSnake View Post
On the flipside, the fact that several team members decided to leave as a direct result of this might suggest that things are not that cut and dry.
Is there a list of the other devs that decided to step down? If it's ok to be made public, of course.

Another big thing that came to me: what about all the content from Mystic Realm? A lot of it crossed into vanilla SRB2 over the years, will this still be a thing that can happen? Will ATZ and AGZ remain in the game in subsequent versions?

Additionally, I would highly oppose removing their names in the credits, as someone suggested. That seems a bit too in tune with the current toxic cancel culture, taking away credit from people who worked all their lives on something just because they hurt the feelings of certain groups. Totally unethical.
__________________
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a bad game is bad forever." - Shigeru Miyamoto
Trolo Bobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #30
Crappy Blue
 
Crappy Blue's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolo Bobo View Post
Additionally, I would highly oppose removing their names in the credits, as someone suggested. That seems a bit too in tune with the current toxic cancel culture, taking away credit from people who worked all their lives on something just because they hurt the feelings of certain groups. Totally unethical.
"Hurt the feelings" is a gross downplaying of the effect saying shitty things really has on other people. I can't take this paragraph in good faith if you believe that what leads people to cry out against bigotry and poor treatment of others is trivial emotions and not outside-induced self-loathing, continually validated fears, disenfranchisement, and permanent discomfort as a result of said treatment.

Phrasing it as "certain groups" also obfuscates that those groups are comprised of marginalized people who are trivialized for their identities constantly. What are you advocating for here? I don't even have a firm opinion on removing Mystic and Rob's names from the game, I just want to know why this is your justification for not doing so.
Crappy Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #31
Trolo Bobo
Get "N" or get out!
 
Trolo Bobo's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crappy Blue View Post
"Hurt the feelings" is a gross downplaying of the effect saying shitty things really has on other people. I can't take this paragraph in good faith if you believe that what leads people to cry out against bigotry and poor treatment of others is trivial emotions and not outside-induced self-loathing, continually validated fears, disenfranchisement, and permanent discomfort as a result of said treatment.

Phrasing it as "certain groups" also obfuscates that those groups are comprised of marginalized people who are trivialized for their identities constantly. What are you advocating for here? I don't even have a firm opinion on removing Mystic and Rob's names from the game, I just want to know why this is your justification for not doing so.
I agree, the way I worded it sounds like I'm saying some genuine issues are not important and people should just "man up". I'm sorry, that's not what I was implying. What I wanted to emphasize is that yes while it is disgraceful for someone to say certain things, if those things have no direct connection to a peoduct they worked on then there is no reason to take their credit away from it. It's got nothing to do with it. Even if you find an argument to say it does, it only leads to a downward spiral of removing/changing how the history of things went for more and more subjective matters. You can never draw the line of what's ok and what isn't, there's always going to be someone displeased, someone that goes "I have and issue with X thing, and to me it means as much as Y thing means to those other people, therefore it should be adjusted". And when it gets to that point, kinda like how it already did in some industries, it's just ridiculous.
__________________
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a bad game is bad forever." - Shigeru Miyamoto
Trolo Bobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #32
Unknownlight
 
Unknownlight's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolo Bobo View Post
Is there a list of the other devs that decided to step down? If it's ok to be made public, of course.
MascaraSnake, FuriousFox, and Digiku.

I'm not even sure how the credits thing came up. That's... not how credits work. At all. Otherwise, Microsoft would have removed Notch from the credits of Minecraft years ago...

(I mean, hypothetically you can remove someone from the credits if you also remove all their work. We even have recent precedent for that. The Eggpack character mod was reverted to an earlier version to remove all of Sapheros's contributions. That's not what the situation here is, obviously.)

Also, @devs/former devs: you guys should probably either be more transparent or say nothing at all. This sort of... vague sniping at each other in public forum posts without saying anything of substance is the worst of both worlds.
Unknownlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #33
Trolo Bobo
Get "N" or get out!
 
Trolo Bobo's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknownlight View Post
Otherwise, Microsoft would have removed Notch from the credits of Minecraft years ago...
They did though! At least to some degree, I remember there was news about it last year, that's one of the big examples I was thinking about.

Also, thanks for the list. I thought MascaraSnake was retired already, huh.
__________________
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a bad game is bad forever." - Shigeru Miyamoto
Trolo Bobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #34
SeventhSentinel
STJr Team Representative
Administrator
 
SeventhSentinel's Avatar
Default

Mazmazz (formerly Digiku) left as a result of finishing the web port, not because of the subject at hand, to be clear.
__________________
FM synths forever.
My stuff: SeventhSentinel#4892 on Discord / Twitter / Primary YouTube / Secondary YouTube / SoundCloud / Twitch
Follow STJr on social media: YouTube / Twitter / Facebook
Follow Kart Krew on social media: YouTube / Twitter / Facebook
Chat on Discord: SRB2 / Kart Krew
SeventhSentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #35
KuroEl64
Known as Hajime in game
 
KuroEl64's Avatar
Default

I've been following srb2 since the first version of 2.0 and there's something that I noticed during these years. I don't know how to put this on words but there's alot of talented people on this community that can offer help and make a lot of stuff. The bans that happened are sad for sure... But from what I know is that even if it happens I don't think Srb2 will just.. how do I say this... Srb2 will survive this calamity and move on and grow and give a good impression to the fans
__________________
Just a Danganronpa fan boi. Don't take this seriously
KuroEl64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #36
Ace Dragon
 
Ace Dragon's Avatar
Default

Reading the discussion at hand, I don't think any of us who have joined the community in more recent years can have a firm opinion over whether the removal of these team members are justified, that is unless the details and quotes were made public (but that would open up a major can of worms that I'm sure the team would like to keep private). All we have to go by really is that the decision was not something that was done lightly.

Let the team reorganize and get the missing zones into the game, and as I mentioned earlier I do think custom content is going to get better with what is being developed now.

Last edited by Ace Dragon; 06-26-2020 at 12:55 PM.
Ace Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #37
CobaltBW
Community Noise Maker
Developer
 
CobaltBW's Avatar
Default

We might remove the "producer" role, but that's only because it doesn't make much sense, especially not in the context of our current team structure. Every other credits listing will remain so long as the person's work remains in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MascaraSnake View Post
On the flipside, the fact that several team members decided to leave as a direct result of this might suggest that things are not that cut and dry.

An impression is being created here that Mystic, Rob and Prime 2.0 were "toxic presences" in the dev team and therefore had to be removed. It's impossible to comment on that without going into internals that don't belong here, but let the record state that not everyone agrees.
My only point is that there were enough issues on the table that it lead the majority of the team to be in favor of removing them, even if it wasn't 100% unanimous. Agree to disagree on the specifics.
__________________
~CobaltBW

Check out my soundcloud profile for music stuff
CobaltBW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #38
TehRealSalt
(σᴥσ)
Judge
 
TehRealSalt's Avatar
Default

So I'm going to drop my hot take & perspective: without any context as to what happened in the dev team, this is still the best thing to happen to the community in years.


- I started off as a dumb kid on the forum who could've gotten banned if I was even just a tad bit more frequent.

- Came back much later, and I started getting on the train and perpetuating the toxic mindset that making fun of "bad art" is okay.

- Took a break shortly after, and realized that "No, just because this community acts like it's okay, doesn't mean it is."

- Made SUGOI as an attempt to change community mindsets. Not to toot my own horn, I'd say it worked. I remember being told in #srb2fun that it'd never work, that community projects are doomed to fail. After it came out, I noticed people being far more mindful of what they say, and I saw more people being told off if they were being toxic.

- Joined the dev team, left about half a year later. Didn't give a reason at the time, because I wasn't ready to argue it, as well as, even from my limited time there, there was a consistent trend of "if you leave dev, we will make fun of you for it amongst ourselves". But my experience with the lead positions on the team made me realize how it's not truly a few bad eggs in the community, but Mystic primarily who made this behavior OK. (In retrospect, that was flawed logic; if it was just a few bad eggs, it still would've been their fault as they had the power to remove influences like that.) I still hold the others accountable since they acted as his "yes men", there wasn't really any way to tell him his behavior was terrible when he had multiple people backing him up. I didn't want to fight it, so I simply left quietly.

- I lost all of my enthusiasm for the game, but I still loved the modding scene, so I wanted to make sure it could grow again, instead of them doing things like cancelling OLDCs or stupidly strict submissions. I wanted to help run community events, run a new recurring contest, make news posts to highlight cool addons, etc. I felt held back because after I would make plans, my posts for requests, confirmation, for even just opinions would get very little attention, even after multiple pokes at people for them to check it out. I wasn't willing to just do them without any go ahead and risk getting anger thrown my way for overstepping boundaries. So in the end I just lost the passion for that as well and gave up.



Even without grasping the full extent of what happened, I've still witnessed the damage they've caused over nearly a decade. So frankly hearing the announcement made me celebrate; I only welcome the staffing changes with open arms. I've lost a lot of my drive for this community and have since moved on, but I'm happy that the future is in better hands.
__________________
Twitter | Not really around here anymore, working on my indie game over at Patreon
TehRealSalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #39
Unknownlight
 
Unknownlight's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhSentinel View Post
Mazmazz (formerly Digiku) left as a result of finishing the web port, not because of the subject at hand, to be clear.
Oh, my mistake, sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolo Bobo View Post
They did though! At least to some degree, I remember there was news about it last year, that's one of the big examples I was thinking about.
They didn't, no. Microsoft has done everything they can to distance themselves from Notch—several lightyears-worth of distance—but he's still there in the credits, despite how much they clearly loathe him being there.

There's a popular tweet about "who created Minecraft". The dev team responded by adding it as one of the random messages on the title screen when you boot up the game. I love it.

Unknownlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020   #40
SSNTails
What part of 'RETIRED' don't you understand?
 
SSNTails's Avatar
Default

I think the short of the matter is that developers should be... developing. If you're not creating content, then you're not living up to the description. Just being a decision maker without also working down in the trenches along side your companions makes it very difficult to build comraderie. It's not just a club where you can hang out. That's what board/discord/wiki mods/admins are for. People generally don't need blanket permissions.
__________________
Roly Poly Putt & TraceRace - for Android, iOS, & PC - http://www.spaddlewit.com
Follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/SSNTails
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWy...P98afi_Sp0NdfQ

Last edited by SSNTails; 06-26-2020 at 02:58 PM.
SSNTails is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.