PencilVoid
Circuit Enthusiast
I don't think giving Sonic the bounce is a good idea since Fang already has a similar move.
That's precisely why the thok should go. If you get rid of the thok and just give Sonic a better spindash then you don't need to deal with an OP thok.
Sonic's thok is hard to control, it requires lots of skill, is anything that requires skill and knowledge actually OP? Because I see this as the most incorrect term to apply here.
I just feel like you don't know how the thok works and how it it's used and you don't wanna see it anymore. funnily enough, you are not obligated to use it, it's just an air ability.
I don't think giving Sonic the bounce is a good idea since Fang already has a similar move.
If it were strictly "OP/UP" then it would be easy to readjust the power of the move to accomodate the game's design. The problem runs deeper than that, in it makes Sonic overtly strong in some areas without strengthening him in areas where he needs it the most.
Why not just give him the drop dash from Sonic Mania?
It needs to be an ability that gives Sonic air control so that it works with the vertical level design of SRB2 (or at least the intended level design).
(Oh god, this is turning into another thok thread, isn't it. Maybe it's worth retreading this topic though, now that the people previously in charge of SRB2 have been booted.)
I would actually say that it's relevant regardless of the change in management. In the interest of SRB2 being the best game it can be, it is within the interest both the community and dev team alike to get the thok situation figured out.
The problem is that the best designed game isn't necessarily the most fun. Figuring out what to do with Sonic's moveset in a way that is not only practical, but enjoyable as well as welcoming to newcomers is the particular challenge of the issue. Figuring it out will require a fair amount of creativity.
not to bash any new ideas but i think the thok already fits both of the required bills
think about it, it's an instant burst of momentum to help pick up speed faster than a spindash, it's a way of instantly changing direction if needs be, it's a speedrunning tool for cutting corners and maintaining speed, and it's a semi-helpful jump correction tool.
if we did give sonic something different that did admittedly fit the bare minimum requirements i don't think it could come close to the raw usefulness that is the thok (i'd be happy to be proven wrong tho)
The entire reason why SRB2 is geared towards people who play with a keyboard and mouse is actually because it's based off of Doom Legacy, which is a source port of DOOM (The 1995 version, not the 2016 one). In DOOM, the only way to control Doomguy was with the keyboard and mouse. See where this is going?I had problems with the thok mostly because I was using a controller. It's alot easier with keyboard and mouse but it's still hard to get used to. I can understand why most people are very turned off by the thok especially people who are interested in playing the game with a controller. If SRB2 wants to be more controller and newcomer friendly, the thok has to be changed or replaced.
I had problems with the thok mostly because I was using a controller. It's alot easier with keyboard and mouse but it's still hard to get used to. I can understand why most people are very turned off by the thok especially people who are interested in playing the game with a controller. If SRB2 wants to be more controller and newcomer friendly, the thok has to be changed or replaced.
I also think the thok is somewhat boring but this is a personal opinion divorced from my prior statements.
I'm a thok fan myself. I've been outspoken for quite some time about how I not only don't see a problem with it, but I would rather it didn't get shoved behind an unlock wall. It still mystifies me how they apparently have sufficient data that suggests that it's problematic to newcomers, as it's so simple in concept and should be common sense not to use it recklessly near bottomless pits.
Most people are gonna want their instant gratification. They'll likely skip the tutorial cuz ain't nobody's got time for that, they'll want to play as Sonic because he's the cool guy and also in the game's title and also the first option in the Character Select screen, and they'll want to use the thok because haha fast sonic go thokthokthokthok. Maybe I'm just a cynical old man yelling at the clouds but that's how things seem like to me. Thus, moving the thok to another character is totally warranted, IMO.It still mystifies me how they apparently have sufficient data that suggests that it's problematic to newcomers, as it's so simple in concept and should be common sense not to use it recklessly near bottomless pits.
Why Espio? Vector was the one with the thok-like move in Knuckles Chaotix...
Correction: the first option in Character Select screen is Sonic&TailsGoldenhog said:and also the first option in the Character Select screen
Whatever happened in Chaotix, stayed in Chaotix.Goldenhog said:Why Espio? Vector was the one with the thok-like move in Knuckles Chaotix...
Eh, this one is questionable... Sure, ninjas are depicted like that, but that is entertainment. Surely the audience wouldn't be excited watching a random guy in dull clothes waiting for hours for something to happen.time gear said:Espio is a ninja, and ninja's are commonly depicted as speedy characters who strike enemies quickly and re-gain distance just as quick.
Frankly speaking, it would be awful. We want Sonic to be easier to play as, not harder. With that said I don't think I can add anything of value to this discussion. Sure, getting used to thok is difficult, experimenting and stuff...What if we gave Sonic no ability?
Side note, is there a way to combine the bounce with the rebound dash? I've mentioned this before in the thread (I didn't know the name of the ability though).
Frankly speaking, it would be awful. We want Sonic to be easier to play as, not harder. With that said I don't think I can add anything of value to this discussion. Sure, getting used to thok is difficult, experimenting and stuff...
Nothing prevents you from not spamming thok as if jump was the only button in the game, right? You thok in the first stage, you fall into a pool of water or something, you climb out of it, you should be able to avoid the same mistake, right?
I'm a thok fan myself. I've been outspoken for quite some time about how I not only don't see a problem with it, but I would rather it didn't get shoved behind an unlock wall. It still mystifies me how they apparently have sufficient data that suggests that it's problematic to newcomers, as it's so simple in concept and should be common sense not to use it recklessly near bottomless pits.
There is a tiny problem that Bounce move shares with Drop Dash: it requires a floor to operate. And this is not always available in the same "Tricky jumping over a pit" situation that was discussed so many times.SA2 Bounce
If the newcomers are ragequitting because the game wants them to think before doing something stupid, that's called low brainpower, not high skill floor.OP345 said:If your game needs newcomers to sit and think really hard about the right way to use an ability, that's a high skill floor