Congrats. I've been broken.

I really don't see how this would improve anyone, if anything it would just make them WORSE at modding because your just taking other peoples's work and claiming it as your own because you slightly edited it, not to mention that it would probably be dead in the first 3 months of it being on just like the workshop because no ones gonna wanna use when the srb2 message board exist, that's objectively the best way to share mods and actually respects the creators of said mods

the workshop is DEAD because of this approach and it WILL happen to this thing as well, I really don't know why you actually think the workshop is noteworthy at all but it's whatever

but instead of trying to do this and helping newbies fail, you could make your own mods that are made to actually help new modders improve and understand

pick up a ladel, don't start a war
 
Banjo268 said:
Um, elaborate? I can't tell if you're stunned by the backlash, my premise I presented, or you're thinking of a response. Say something!
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I'm just stunned at how someone could go into this much detail about the MB's shortcomings, this is youtube video levels of detailed
like, holy shit
 
The idea of having to be in the beginners trainer zone from the start is awful. Look at Speed Highway from the 2022 Round 2 OLDC. That was Lucas’s first level and with this system if it was a standalone level it would be stuck in with other lower quality mods. Some people’s first mods are improved during development and turn out higher quality than others. Also having this for beginners is literally just encouraging them that it’s a-ok to steal content from others with no repercussions.
 
Ok guys, I think you all have proved your point. I know there were some flaws, but I'm glad this wasn't toxic and we had an actual discussion here. The Training Zone was simply a concept, and I figured it would never leave that stage. I genuinely appreciate the feedback and criticism you guys provided. I'm probably not gonna hang here anymore, as it's quite clear and definitive that The Training Zone was a bad idea. I just wanna let everyone know my intentions were never harmful or malicious, and I thought it would help people start out, but I see now it doesn't. I strongly recommend abandoning this thread, as there's not to much to say outside of "yeah i agree with that person this idea sux".

Appreciate it guys!
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NJCool25 said:
I ain't readin' all that! Just kidding, I read it, and I think it's pretty good! I can agree with some of your ideas, but I really just appreciate all this effort you put into writing this! This is food for thought.
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Appreciate it, but as pointed out by literally eveyone else (damn), the idea is flawed and the guidelines that came with it.
Jammin' said:
It baffles me how someone could become so absolutely disgruntled to the point they write pretty much multiple essays on why the current submission system is complete dogwater.
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Um... I never said it was? I looked through my wall of text, I didn't see anything on calling the system dogwater. Even if I did, that was never my intention.
Jammin' said:
Even with the bullshit where people get banned for posting portlegs constantly doesn't seem sound. Sharing portlegs is bad enough as-is, but banning people when they post multiple portlegs in a row? Come on.
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This rule was meant to counter anyone from somewhere like the WS or just anyone with malicious intent to push out worthless portlegs and put 0 effort into it. I wasn't saying you couldn't make a portleg in the zone, I was saying someone mass producing them could get banned.
Jammin' said:
I genuinely don't even care enough to read the other walls of text you've posted while thinking of a response.
You won't hear what you want to hear here. Put your energy into something else.
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Unlike most, I can take criticism. I figured I would receive backlash and "not hear what I want to here", so I can handle it.
SP Moves Enjoyer said:
pick up a ladel, don't start a war
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Never intended to start a war. Never planned, never will.

I think that's all, and genuinely, I don't think discussion is necessary past this post, as most points have been used.
 
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Banjo268 said:
The whole training zone idea is for people to do this in public and have more wide-open reception rather than a couple people with a private mod.
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You don't need to share stolen material to improve. You should share original material, using other people's material as a reference to learn. You never need to share it, and nobody ever has. This is a non-issue.
Banjo268 said:
I wanted someone not to just stay in this zone forever and either churn out bad ports and edits or be doing very very simple scripts and characters. I want people to expand and leave this zone and go to regular Submissions.
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You might not think you're punishing people for not improving but that's what you're doing. Improvement is a journey that will differ for everyone who ever touches a lump editor. It cannot be measured or constrained, nor can it be contained into a neat little box like you're proposing. This whole system of having different rules for newcomers really just sounds like it would be more confusing for those newcomers. In reality, they should be learning the rules they'll have to follow on the actual forum.
Banjo268 said:
This is what I was talking about when I said I don't know this community's history. I don't even know what a "Old Guard" is.
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The Old Guard would mock or sometimes punish people for not improving in the ways they liked. Some of them had a set idea of what "improvement" was and would bully you for not meeting it. This was a community-wide problem, but the Old Guard gave it some force of law. You can ask some of the Final Demo veterans how their work used to be treated. Glaber in particular has spoken out about this before.

I know this is winding down but I wanted to address those replies to me specifically.
 
Banjo268 said:
I don't even know what a "Old Guard" is
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"Old Guard" and "New Guard" are terms to refer to whoever is in charge of something. "Old Guard" refers to those who were previously in charge but no longer are, and "New Guard" refers to those who are currently in charge. In the case of SRB2, there was a significant change in leadership some time after the release of SRB2 2.2. There's whole other threads you can look into regarding what happened to cause this shift, but the important thing here is that there's a very different approach and ideology between SRB2's Old and New Guards. The Old Guard is generally regarded as having been somewhat toxic and elitist. Although there have been a few individuals and groups here and there who have had beef with the New Guard for whatever reason, generally speaking the main consensus is that they're doing a much better job at avoiding the mistakes of their predecessors.
 
no, you can't share modified content that can't be reused, but this does not prohibit you from changing it and using it for your own purposes. that is, you can take a map/character/sprite and somehow modify it, so yes, this is good for gaining knowledge of how things are done.

I believe that in some cases it is better to learn from scratch (mapping, spriting) because there are tutorials for this, but in other cases there is no good documentation and it is better to take a ready-made addon and somehow change it to understand how it works (lua) but it depends on how a person likes to study. I remember being curious about how a puzzle worked in ATZ, so I just opened it in ZB and looked at how it worked and recreated it at my level (there could be an example with any other addon, not a vanilla game, but still).

if you need feedback, then hey, try to use the knowledge you gained and do something yourself. what is the point of posting “your” content where there is not your content? you want your creativity to be appreciated (yes???). most likely this will not be the coolest addition that everyone will rate 5/5 stars, but everyone started somewhere (my first addon was just a repaint of FHZ which somehow passed the judging, lol)

I don’t really like the system that is on the MB, because I think that starting from version 2.2, addons began to receive much less feedback, especially for addons that are not of the best quality, because they are the ones who need it anyway support and understanding of what and how to do. you may notice that cool addons are rated 5/5 stars and have over 20+ reviews (which in most cases just say "hey man, this is a cool addon!!!" and don't bring anything new to the table) while the addons are questionable qualities or posted by newcomers (who need feedback) as a rule, remain with one review from the judge and nothing more. these things make me sad.

I'll even give my own example (although this doesn't really fit the situation but still) there is such a character as Bean the Dynamite. and he has some issues that I would like to fix. but I couldn't contact the author, so I just went and changed it myself as I needed (fixed lua errors and adapted to new versions), but I did it without the author's consent (because he/she(?) ignores me), so I did it for myself, because I need it (and there is no need to distribute it to others, because there is no reason to do so) and as you can see, I didn’t share the file with anyone, because I’m not allowed to do that :0
 
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