Congrats. I've been broken.

Banjo268

Banjo268

Certified Bonified Idiot
Congratulations, guys. You guys made me apathetic to SRB2 discussions. What do I mean by this? It means if someone mentions the WS or brings up anything related to Reusability, I now sigh and can't even be bothered to argue against it. This has driven me to almost lose interest in even playing SRB2. Thankfully, I have an unkindled love for this fangame, and no one is gonna be able to take that away from me. This originally was gonna counter-argue stuff from the "What in the World is the WS" thread, but I genuinely cannot muster enough energy to focus my thoughts and write it out here. Maybe someday if I can focus my thoughts and get enough free time, I'll write some stuff down here. It annoys and bothers me how this small community can't muster any way to be civil and have a proper conversation without throwing out stuff like "rOb SuPoRtEr" or "tHe WS iS fOr BaNnEd PeOpLe To gO!!!". I have seen some genuine toxicity from people here, on both sides of the argument for reusability and ports as a whole. I maybe will call them out, but same story as my thoughts. Maybe one day.

But I love this game and the bursting creativity people have to make mods for this fangame, so I'll suggest something to the community.

The Beginner's Training Zone (still workshopping the name)
This place is within the Submissions/Addons part of the forum, where new or inexperienced people with SRB2 can submit their first few or how many mods they need to elevate in skill with SRB2. Let me make this clear: ANYTHING GOES. I cannot stress this enough, anything goes. Ports, edits of other's works, etc. Anything Submissions have outlawed from being posted here (except for NFSW+ stuff, that's a no-no). Here, anyone can make and submit anything they need to start training and learning the ways of modding SRB2. The reason I say anything goes is because to force someone new to completely rely on only Reusable code or completely make something new is a lot of pressure. This "zone" is so newbies can relax and start simple with codes, maps, or characters. If editing someone's character to get adjusted to writing code for SRB2, so be it. The community can still review and rate the works, and determines their ability to upgrade to regular Submissions. If they have something like high ratings or positive reviews, the creator can appeal to the moderators to move on to Submissions.
Now, I know what your thinking, "Banjo! Couldn't someone accidentally get stuck in this newbie zone if they already are good at modding SRB2??"
That's why if the person is confident when submitting their first mod, they can send the mod and appeal for a regular Submissions release and permanently join Submissions instead of Training Zone. If the moderators believe the mod is high-quality enough and follows the Submission's guidelines, the mod goes to Submissions and everyone's happy.
"But Banjo! Couldn't someone make an alt or try and make bad ports under the fallacy of being new?" That's why we have moderators folks. If the moderators feel the person isn't really improving or adding on to their work and just releasing shoddy ports and edits, they can kick/ban them from the forums. Which leads me to my one rule for the Training Zone:
ALL WORKS AND MODS MUST IN SOMEWAY SHOW A PROGRESS OF SKILL AND EFFORT PUT INTO IT. EVEN IF ITS A SIMPLE SCRIPT, IT MUST BE STATED THAT IT WAS LOW EFFORT.
I say this so someone can't just make 50 "mods" and have them be all edits of like Silver being a nuke or super fast. The script thing is like, "oh I copy and paste this thing from my other mod and release it separately". It's so that way that it doesn't look like they are intentionally staying in the Training Zone. Which leads me to a second thing (not a rule): UNLESS PROVEN ABSENT, PEOPLE ARE MEANT TO GRADUATE FROM THIS LOWER SUBMISSION AREA TO REGULAR SUBMISSIONS. IF SOMEONE RELEASES LOW-QUALITY PORTS AND SHOWS NO SIGN OF WANTING TO MOVE ONWARDS TO SUBMISSIONS, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REPORT THEM.

I think that's everything? I'll come back and edit this post if I remember anything (and the counter-arguments, not forgetting those).


This last bit is a bit of a love letter to this community, so if you don't wanna read it, I suggest getting off as I'm ending with this:


Around late May 2022, I watched an Antdude video on Sonic fangames, featuring how cool the game looked and the cool mods it had. So I downloaded it with some basic mods. Over 2 years later, I stand with a complete organized folder of the mods I own.
SRB2 is actually my favorite video game of ALL TIME. I know, bold statement. But I love the vanilla game, the level design, the 6 playable characters, the local and online multiplayer, and THE MODS!! OMG THE MODS HERE ARE SO TALENTED!! Just like the people who make them.
I know how rough this community has been, considering the whole WS thing and the retaliation of Reusability (which I proudly stand with). I don't even know this community's full history, as there are many people and mods that people reference which I barely know.
But I know one thing.
That is I love SRB2, the mods, and the community who surround both. Whatever the future holds in store, I hope we as a community can withstand and not try to kill each other of dumb things.


That's all I gotta say, Cya guys later, and watch MORØ's Indie Cross Ep. 1. Seriously, it's amazing.
 
Banjo268 said:
Let me make this clear: ANYTHING GOES. I cannot stress this enough, anything goes. Ports, edits of other's works, etc. Anything Submissions have outlawed from being posted here (except for NFSW+ stuff, that's a no-no). Here, anyone can make and submit anything they need to start training and learning the ways of modding SRB2. The reason I say anything goes is because to force someone new to completely rely on only Reusable code or completely make something new is a lot of pressure.
Click to expand...
This would just be an easily abusable loophole in the submissions system. While it's entirely normal and okay to ignore the rules when working in private, especially when starting out, you don't NEED to release it to help. You can get feedback already. Everyone here who mods SRB2 today did that just fine. You can learn from other people's work without needing to break the rules, and thus this seems totally unnecessary to me.

Even then, I don't think this would be helpful to newcomers. You think newbies should be punished if they don't show signs of improvement? Isn't improvement subjective? Isn't that putting the very pressure on them this system is supposed to avoid? I know you have good intentions, but that's the kind of thing the Old Guard did.
 
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guys, don't beat up the person for trying to have an intelligent post
sure the idea doesn't work, and the workshop isn't reliable (they have stated this themselves afaik)
but you shouldn't just post to post, dylan has already made a really good explanation
 
i cant lie, so much arguing about the same topics has also made me consider abandoning srb2 as a whole, and honestly i dont think im gonna stay around for much longer. sandwichface, the thok, workshop, reusability and portlegs, the same 5 topics argued about over and over again and theres never any "progress", never anything new, just people spewing out the same words over and over again. its exhausting as hrll
 
Banjo268 said:
The Beginner's Training Zone (still workshopping the name)
This place is within the Submissions/Addons part of the forum, where new or inexperienced people with SRB2 can submit their first few or how many mods they need to elevate in skill with SRB2. Let me make this clear: ANYTHING GOES. I cannot stress this enough, anything goes. Ports, edits of other's works, etc. Anything Submissions have outlawed from being posted here (except for NFSW+ stuff, that's a no-no). Here, anyone can make and submit anything they need to start training and learning the ways of modding SRB2. The reason I say anything goes is because to force someone new to completely rely on only Reusable code or completely make something new is a lot of pressure. This "zone" is so newbies can relax and start simple with codes, maps, or characters. If editing someone's character to get adjusted to writing code for SRB2, so be it. The community can still review and rate the works, and determines their ability to upgrade to regular Submissions. If they have something like high ratings or positive reviews, the creator can appeal to the moderators to move on to Submissions.
Click to expand...

The Message Board's addon section already works like this: it's a catalogue of creations where you can submit anything you made as long as it's finished and has a visible amount of effort. Your suggestion seems to be that letting people submit stuff they didn't make (or even submit anything at all) is somehow integral to the process of learning how to mod in SRB2, which, how Dylan put it above, just isn't true.

This might sound paradoxical, but I'm always saying this: getting started with modding SRB2 is easy, but making something complex with it is not. But for some reason, we have a massive influx of new people who waltz into the community with no mapping or coding or spriting experience and get this completely wrong impression that they have to make a Silverhorn or an Adventure Sonic in 3 weeks and submit it to the MB at all costs or their mom dies.

Goes without saying that putting our judges through a swathe of potential Frankenstein submissions and have their workload doubled just because of this pressure people are putting on themselves is unrealistic. We could focus on that pressure instead and where it's coming from.

P.S.: You absolutely do not need to engage with the drama surrounding other communities to enjoy SRB2 or hang around the community. We don't really care about them and so you shouldn't. You're just ruining something for yourself.
 
This is a response to other peoples replies/comments. I'm not trying to be rude in anyway possible.
(To add on to Tatsuru's post)
Tatsuru said:
Your suggestion seems to be that letting people submit stuff they didn't make is somehow integral to the process of learning how to mod in SRB2, which, how Dylan put it above, just isn't true.
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Plus, it's unfair to Judges (people who allow mods to be public) to find that a bunch of people are just waiting for mods they didn't make to get public.
(Response to Banjo268)
Banjo268 said:
if someone mentions the WS or brings up anything related to Reusability, I now sigh and can't even be bothered to argue against it. This has driven me to almost lose interest in even playing SRB2.
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Then don't look or think about this "Reusability" thing. Like, if someone brings up the WS and you don't like it, do something else...?
Banjo268 said:
ALL WORKS AND MODS MUST IN SOMEWAY SHOW A PROGRESS OF SKILL AND EFFORT PUT INTO IT. EVEN IF ITS A SIMPLE SCRIPT, IT MUST BE STATED THAT IT WAS LOW EFFORT.
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Banjo268 said:
UNLESS PROVEN ABSENT, PEOPLE ARE MEANT TO GRADUATE FROM THIS LOWER SUBMISSION AREA TO REGULAR SUBMISSIONS. IF SOMEONE RELEASES LOW-QUALITY PORTS AND SHOWS NO SIGN OF WANTING TO MOVE ONWARDS TO SUBMISSIONS, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REPORT THEM.
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Ok, I get that your trying to make a point, but you could've just put these posts in bold, so it doesn't come off as rude.
(An extra response to a posts.)
Chipjam said:
i cant lie, so much arguing about the same topics has also made me consider abandoning srb2 as a whole, and honestly i dont think im gonna stay around for much longer. sandwichface, the thok, workshop, reusability and portlegs, the same 5 topics argued about over and over again and theres never any "progress", never anything new, just people spewing out the same words over and over again. its exhausting as hell
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Then igrone those arguments and move on.

No offense to the people working on this game (because I love the people that help keep this game alive!), but I don't care if the thok get's removed or not anymore. I know the new ability will do something to make the game fun.

Portlegs are port's made without permission, so why even argue about that, or even listen to a portleg argument? At the end of the day, portlegs are what they are.

If your having trouble with resusability, talk to staff.

And what Sandwichface stuff??? I don't remember anything related to that.

The SRB2 Workshop (Let's see how well I put this) is another SRB2 Message Board with stuff like Portlegs, Underage users (I will not go into detail), and I think stolen mods in general? Not just for members that were banned from the MB.

Zxyrollix_Gaming said:
actually what the srb2 are you talking about
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It's simply something about mods and the WS.
dish soap said:
srb2 workshop is not a reliable source
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We all know this.
Thank you for reading this comment that took me about 40 minutes to make.
 
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Maril said:
guys, don't beat up the person for trying to have an intelligent post
sure the idea doesn't work, and the workshop isn't reliable (they have stated this themselves afaik)
but you shouldn't just post to post, dylan has already made a really good explanation
Click to expand...
Ha, Intelligent
 
Time to address some things.
Firstly, I wanna point out this person in paticular:
Maril said:
guys, don't beat up the person for trying to have an intelligent post
sure the idea doesn't work, and the workshop isn't reliable (they have stated this themselves afaik)
but you shouldn't just post to post, dylan has already made a really good explanation
Click to expand...
Thank you for the more positive and level-headed response you gave to my idea! Positivity is becoming hard to find nowadays, so this made me smile a little.

Now, on with the show.

DylanDude said:
This would just be an easily abusable loophole in the submissions system. While it's entirely normal and okay to ignore the rules when working in private, especially when starting out, you don't NEED to release it to help. You can get feedback already. Everyone here who mods SRB2 today did that just fine.
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I know this had a very abusable loophole, which is what I was trying to allude to, but I guess I didn't elaborate? If someone is just mindlessly pushing out weak ports, then they could get banned for it. The whole training zone idea is for people to do this in public and have more wide-open reception rather than a couple people with a private mod. I should mention I was never aware that people did share their beginner mods in private with their close friends.
DylanDude said:
You can learn from other people's work without needing to break the rules, and thus this seems totally unnecessary to me.
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What I meant was that a newcomer could just download something like Silver, peek around in his code, maybe mess with some things, then release it to the Training Zone. But once again, I was never aware of beginners private testing.
DylanDude said:
Even then, I don't think this would be helpful to newcomers. You think newbies should be punished if they don't show signs of improvement? Isn't improvement subjective? Isn't that putting the very pressure on them this system is supposed to avoid?
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Ok, ok, I DEFINITELY could have explained this better. What I meant was something similar to the abusable loophole situation. I wanted someone not to just stay in this zone forever and either churn out bad ports and edits or be doing very very simple scripts and characters. I want people to expand and leave this zone and go to regular Submissions. I'll edit the post later, but as for now, I wouldn't punish the person for not improving. That wasn't my intention.
DylanDude said:
I know you have good intentions, but that's the kind of thing the Old Guard did.
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This is what I was talking about when I said I don't know this community's history. I don't even know what a "Old Guard" is. I've only been here for less than 3 years, and I been mostly a 2.2 player, so I wouldn't really know the older terms with this community.
Chipjam said:
i cant lie, so much arguing about the same topics has also made me consider abandoning srb2 as a whole, and honestly i dont think im gonna stay around for much longer. sandwichface, the thok, workshop, reusability and portlegs, the same 5 topics argued about over and over again and theres never any "progress", never anything new, just people spewing out the same words over and over again. its exhausting as hrll
Click to expand...
This is what I mentioned in my opening sentences. The same stuff being talked about over and over again with 0% progress on convincing either side. It's what made me apathetic to the whole conversation in the end. Glad someone else pointed this out.
Tatsuru said:
The Message Board's addon section already works like this: it's a catalogue of creations where you can submit anything you made as long as it's finished and has a visible amount of effort. Your suggestion seems to be that letting people submit stuff they didn't make (or even submit anything at all) is somehow integral to the process of learning how to mod in SRB2, which, how Dylan put it above, just isn't true.
Click to expand...
Once again, what I mean is for the person to use others' works to build on their knowledge and start learning how SRB2 works. Once once again, I now know that people do private test their beginner mods, and that's perfectly fine! That's exactly what the Training Zone is meant to be, but so others could help put constructive criticism and build the creator up.
Tatsuru said:
This might sound paradoxical, but I'm always saying this: getting started with modding SRB2 is easy, but making something complex with it is not. But for some reason, we have a massive influx of new people who waltz into the community with no mapping or coding or spriting experience and get this completely wrong impression that they have to make a Silverhorn or an Adventure Sonic in 3 weeks and submit it to the MB at all costs or their mom dies.
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I can say from personal experience, both map making and just looking at the Wiki, it can be genuinely intimidating to enter this community. Sadly, I don't know why people do have that impression, and I wish we could do something about it, but I will say one thing though: what can cause that stress to finish something, for me personally, is ambition. The drive to start adding things on to make it look cooler, to finish earlier to get it out to the public faster, and it can bring stress and make the process not fun anymore. The only real solution is to take it slow and just passionately work on the project to your heart's content, with no time restrictions.
Tatsuru said:
P.S.: You absolutely do not need to engage with the drama surrounding other communities to enjoy SRB2 or hang around the community. We don't really care about them and so you shouldn't. You're just ruining something for yourself.
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Ok, normally I would agree with you, and I partially do. I can go on another device, download 2.2 vanilla, and just enjoy speed running through with Sonic and having so much fun. But being on the forums and going to servers are a delight and a privilege, so for the pointless discussions pointed from above start messing with players and users on the forums, it severely sours the experience, makes people toxic, and generally makes things worse. You are technically right, but this fangame thrives on its community, so to completely ignore it and stick with vanilla or whatever mods you got really devalues the SRB2 experience. At least, personally.
SpeedyHedgehog said:
(Response to Banjo268)

Then don't look or think about this "Reusability" thing. Like, if someone brings up the WS and you don't like it, do something else...?


Ok, I get that your trying to make a point, but you could've just put these posts in bold, so it doesn't come off as rude.
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For the first part, I really can't do something else, as that conversation starts to spread everywhere. Servers, forums, even other places like YT, you can't escape it. For the second part, yeah I was but thought it wasn't that important lol.
SpeedyHedgehog said:
And what Sandwichface stuff??? I don't remember anything related to that.
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If you've been on the forums, or near his YT page, then you'll know why. He is kinda the catalyst for the repetative conversations listed above, and he says things the community hates. Although, I will admit, he does bring up some actual good points that everyone ignors because "uh oh sandwich bad bc he hate artist durrrrrr". Seriously, check his hate comments, they're so annoying.
Spunch T. S. Koopa said:
damn dude


i've no words

that-
that is just-

damn.
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Um, elaborate? I can't tell if you're stunned by the backlash, my premise I presented, or you're thinking of a response. Say something!
Dylan Sahr said:
Ha, Intelligent
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Wow, thanks! I appreciate how non-toxic that reply was! This community is so nice :))



Aaaaaand that's it for now! I should very much mention that the Training Zone is a concept, not something set in stone. If there are some parts you disagree with, it could be changed. I still think that the Training Zone is still a somewhat decent idea that would help benefit the community, but I can tell others disagree. And disagree away! Just please, keep off the toxicity, it aggrivates me to see someone not contribute to the conversation and something like "well DUH hes and idiot XD lmfao stupid idiot".

Goodnight Tri-State Area.
 
Banjo268 said:
For the first part, I really can't do something else, as that conversation starts to spread everywhere. Servers, forums, even other places like YT, you can't escape it.
Click to expand...
Um, you can play SRB2, watch TV, play another game, go outside. You can escape it.
Banjo268 said:
For the second part, yeah I was but thought it wasn't that important lol.
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I don't see the "lol" part. And sometimes, you gotta use your brain more, not saying your not smart.
Banjo268 said:
If you've been on the forums, or near his YT page, then you'll know why. He is kinda the catalyst for the repetative conversations listed above, and he says things the community hates. Although, I will admit, he does bring up some actual good points that everyone ignors because "uh oh sandwich bad bc he hate artist durrrrrr". Seriously, check his hate comments, they're so annoying.
Click to expand...
Oh, yeah, no offense, but I'm just gonna ignore those people.
 
Banjo268 said:
Congratulations, guys. You guys made me apathetic to SRB2 discussions. What do I mean by this? It means if someone mentions the WS or brings up anything related to Reusability, I now sigh and can't even be bothered to argue against it. This has driven me to almost lose interest in even playing SRB2. Thankfully, I have an unkindled love for this fangame, and no one is gonna be able to take that away from me. This originally was gonna counter-argue stuff from the "What in the World is the WS" thread, but I genuinely cannot muster enough energy to focus my thoughts and write it out here. Maybe someday if I can focus my thoughts and get enough free time, I'll write some stuff down here. It annoys and bothers me how this small community can't muster any way to be civil and have a proper conversation without throwing out stuff like "rOb SuPoRtEr" or "tHe WS iS fOr BaNnEd PeOpLe To gO!!!". I have seen some genuine toxicity from people here, on both sides of the argument for reusability and ports as a whole. I maybe will call them out, but same story as my thoughts. Maybe one day.

But I love this game and the bursting creativity people have to make mods for this fangame, so I'll suggest something to the community.

The Beginner's Training Zone (still workshopping the name)
This place is within the Submissions/Addons part of the forum, where new or inexperienced people with SRB2 can submit their first few or how many mods they need to elevate in skill with SRB2. Let me make this clear: ANYTHING GOES. I cannot stress this enough, anything goes. Ports, edits of other's works, etc. Anything Submissions have outlawed from being posted here (except for NFSW+ stuff, that's a no-no). Here, anyone can make and submit anything they need to start training and learning the ways of modding SRB2. The reason I say anything goes is because to force someone new to completely rely on only Reusable code or completely make something new is a lot of pressure. This "zone" is so newbies can relax and start simple with codes, maps, or characters. If editing someone's character to get adjusted to writing code for SRB2, so be it. The community can still review and rate the works, and determines their ability to upgrade to regular Submissions. If they have something like high ratings or positive reviews, the creator can appeal to the moderators to move on to Submissions.
Now, I know what your thinking, "Banjo! Couldn't someone accidentally get stuck in this newbie zone if they already are good at modding SRB2??"
That's why if the person is confident when submitting their first mod, they can send the mod and appeal for a regular Submissions release and permanently join Submissions instead of Training Zone. If the moderators believe the mod is high-quality enough and follows the Submission's guidelines, the mod goes to Submissions and everyone's happy.
"But Banjo! Couldn't someone make an alt or try and make bad ports under the fallacy of being new?" That's why we have moderators folks. If the moderators feel the person isn't really improving or adding on to their work and just releasing shoddy ports and edits, they can kick/ban them from the forums. Which leads me to my one rule for the Training Zone:
ALL WORKS AND MODS MUST IN SOMEWAY SHOW A PROGRESS OF SKILL AND EFFORT PUT INTO IT. EVEN IF ITS A SIMPLE SCRIPT, IT MUST BE STATED THAT IT WAS LOW EFFORT.
I say this so someone can't just make 50 "mods" and have them be all edits of like Silver being a nuke or super fast. The script thing is like, "oh I copy and paste this thing from my other mod and release it separately". It's so that way that it doesn't look like they are intentionally staying in the Training Zone. Which leads me to a second thing (not a rule): UNLESS PROVEN ABSENT, PEOPLE ARE MEANT TO GRADUATE FROM THIS LOWER SUBMISSION AREA TO REGULAR SUBMISSIONS. IF SOMEONE RELEASES LOW-QUALITY PORTS AND SHOWS NO SIGN OF WANTING TO MOVE ONWARDS TO SUBMISSIONS, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REPORT THEM.

I think that's everything? I'll come back and edit this post if I remember anything (and the counter-arguments, not forgetting those).


This last bit is a bit of a love letter to this community, so if you don't wanna read it, I suggest getting off as I'm ending with this:


Around late May 2022, I watched an Antdude video on Sonic fangames, featuring how cool the game looked and the cool mods it had. So I downloaded it with some basic mods. Over 2 years later, I stand with a complete organized folder of the mods I own.
SRB2 is actually my favorite video game of ALL TIME. I know, bold statement. But I love the vanilla game, the level design, the 6 playable characters, the local and online multiplayer, and THE MODS!! OMG THE MODS HERE ARE SO TALENTED!! Just like the people who make them.
I know how rough this community has been, considering the whole WS thing and the retaliation of Reusability (which I proudly stand with). I don't even know this community's full history, as there are many people and mods that people reference which I barely know.
But I know one thing.
That is I love SRB2, the mods, and the community who surround both. Whatever the future holds in store, I hope we as a community can withstand and not try to kill each other of dumb things.


That's all I gotta say, Cya guys later, and watch MORØ's Indie Cross Ep. 1. Seriously, it's amazing.
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I ain't readin' all that! Just kidding, I read it, and I think it's pretty good! I can agree with some of your ideas, but I really just appreciate all this effort you put into writing this! This is food for thought.
 
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SpeedyHedgehog said:
Um, you can play SRB2, watch TV, play another game, go outside. You can escape it.
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What I mean is, I can't enjoy SRB2 because people have to bring up those topics, and as pointed out, they're pointless and go nowhere. I get what you mean, but SRB2 is so reliant on its community, you sometimes can't avoid it. Other times, you're right, I do go play something else. The issue is that the topics discussed take out my enjoyment of the game, which is the problem I'm talking about.
SpeedyHedgehog said:
Oh, yeah, no offense, but I'm just gonna ignore those people.
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Well too bad because I swear there's also one or two of them on threads like these.
 
Banjo268 said:
What I mean is, I can't enjoy SRB2 because people have to bring up those topics, and as pointed out, they're pointless and go nowhere. I get what you mean, but SRB2 is so reliant on its community, you sometimes can't avoid it. Other times, you're right, I do go play something else. The issue is that the topics discussed take out my enjoyment of the game, which is the problem I'm talking about.
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What I do is that I ignore that stuff, and enjoy the game for what it is.
Banjo268 said:
Well too bad because I swear there's also one or two of them on threads like these.
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The "too bad" part was pretty unnecessary as that is pretty rude.
And even if they are on threads like these, I do my best to say what I can to them, or ignore them for the greater god. :threat:
 
Banjo268 said:
(a stupidly long post)
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It baffles me how someone could become so absolutely disgruntled to the point they write pretty much multiple essays on why the current submission system is complete dogwater. I don't like it very much myself but I've learned that saying what I'm thinking isn't that good of an idea.
I feel like the submission rules already in place are too lenient as is. You want to make a section that removes all rules entirely?

Even with the bullshit where people get banned for posting portlegs constantly doesn't seem sound. Sharing portlegs is bad enough as-is, but banning people when they post multiple portlegs in a row? Come on.

I'd respond to more parts of this thread but it's quite late where I live and I genuinely don't even care enough to read the other walls of text you've posted while thinking of a response.
You won't hear what you want to hear here. Put your energy into something else.
 
Banjo268 said:
Congratulations, guys. You guys made me apathetic to SRB2 discussions. What do I mean by this? It means if someone mentions the WS or brings up anything related to Reusability, I now sigh and can't even be bothered to argue against it. This has driven me to almost lose interest in even playing SRB2. Thankfully, I have an unkindled love for this fangame, and no one is gonna be able to take that away from me. This originally was gonna counter-argue stuff from the "What in the World is the WS" thread, but I genuinely cannot muster enough energy to focus my thoughts and write it out here. Maybe someday if I can focus my thoughts and get enough free time, I'll write some stuff down here. It annoys and bothers me how this small community can't muster any way to be civil and have a proper conversation without throwing out stuff like "rOb SuPoRtEr" or "tHe WS iS fOr BaNnEd PeOpLe To gO!!!". I have seen some genuine toxicity from people here, on both sides of the argument for reusability and ports as a whole. I maybe will call them out, but same story as my thoughts. Maybe one day.

But I love this game and the bursting creativity people have to make mods for this fangame, so I'll suggest something to the community.

The Beginner's Training Zone (still workshopping the name)
This place is within the Submissions/Addons part of the forum, where new or inexperienced people with SRB2 can submit their first few or how many mods they need to elevate in skill with SRB2. Let me make this clear: ANYTHING GOES. I cannot stress this enough, anything goes. Ports, edits of other's works, etc. Anything Submissions have outlawed from being posted here (except for NFSW+ stuff, that's a no-no). Here, anyone can make and submit anything they need to start training and learning the ways of modding SRB2. The reason I say anything goes is because to force someone new to completely rely on only Reusable code or completely make something new is a lot of pressure. This "zone" is so newbies can relax and start simple with codes, maps, or characters. If editing someone's character to get adjusted to writing code for SRB2, so be it. The community can still review and rate the works, and determines their ability to upgrade to regular Submissions. If they have something like high ratings or positive reviews, the creator can appeal to the moderators to move on to Submissions.
Now, I know what your thinking, "Banjo! Couldn't someone accidentally get stuck in this newbie zone if they already are good at modding SRB2??"
That's why if the person is confident when submitting their first mod, they can send the mod and appeal for a regular Submissions release and permanently join Submissions instead of Training Zone. If the moderators believe the mod is high-quality enough and follows the Submission's guidelines, the mod goes to Submissions and everyone's happy.
"But Banjo! Couldn't someone make an alt or try and make bad ports under the fallacy of being new?" That's why we have moderators folks. If the moderators feel the person isn't really improving or adding on to their work and just releasing shoddy ports and edits, they can kick/ban them from the forums. Which leads me to my one rule for the Training Zone:
ALL WORKS AND MODS MUST IN SOMEWAY SHOW A PROGRESS OF SKILL AND EFFORT PUT INTO IT. EVEN IF ITS A SIMPLE SCRIPT, IT MUST BE STATED THAT IT WAS LOW EFFORT.
I say this so someone can't just make 50 "mods" and have them be all edits of like Silver being a nuke or super fast. The script thing is like, "oh I copy and paste this thing from my other mod and release it separately". It's so that way that it doesn't look like they are intentionally staying in the Training Zone. Which leads me to a second thing (not a rule): UNLESS PROVEN ABSENT, PEOPLE ARE MEANT TO GRADUATE FROM THIS LOWER SUBMISSION AREA TO REGULAR SUBMISSIONS. IF SOMEONE RELEASES LOW-QUALITY PORTS AND SHOWS NO SIGN OF WANTING TO MOVE ONWARDS TO SUBMISSIONS, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REPORT THEM.
Click to expand...
tbh i can bet i’d still be terrible at modding if beginners training zone existed.
 
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