ASfAEe (Average Sonic fan vs Average Eggman enjoyer) 1.3.2

[Riolucariolu]

there appear to be 2 copies of MAP01.wad in the file
also, you made it a .zip file instead of a .pk3 by accident

Thanks, I'll correct that instantly.

 

[Riolucariolu]

Riolucariolu updated ASfAEe (Average Sonic fan vs Average Eggman enjoyer) with a new update entry:

Post an update Watch Add bookmark Remade stages 1-3 and added some QoL

Hello!
The changes are the following:

- Maps 1-3 have been completely remade to give the mod a better first impression
- Map 4 still kinda sucks but I put a breakable wall in the beginning to skip the lake, so you can get past that really quickly
- I added a little cheeseproofing to Map14, the cloud map; it's not much but I didn't care for it
- I added invisible ground that only NPCs can stand on to the Metal Sonic boss arena, so he won't needlessy prolong the fight by falling down anymore...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[SnocSock the Hedg]

Riolucariolu updated ASfAEe (Average Sonic fan vs Average Eggman enjoyer) with a new update entry:

Post an update Watch Add bookmark Remade stages 1-3 and added some QoL



Read the rest of this update entry...

...*cough*
(This happens as soon as the first map starts, immediately after the cutscene.)

 

[Riolucariolu]

Alright, I deleted that linedef function. I can't test myself whether that helped because I never had problems getting into the stage.
Please tell me if it helped.
I'm European and have work in the morning, so 1.3.2 will be the last fix for today. Will look more into this after work if it's still not solved.

Thanks for the bug report!

 

[SnocSock the Hedg]

Alright, I deleted that linedef function. I can't test myself whether that helped because I never had problems getting into the stage.
Please tell me if it helped.
I'm European and have work in the morning, so 1.3.2 will be the last fix for today. Will look more into this after work if it's still not solved.

Thanks for the bug report!

I played up to Forfeited Factory 18 and it all seems to work well!

 

[Riolucariolu]

I played up to Forfeited Factory 18 and it all seems to work well!

Cool, thanks!

 

[InsaneEnergy]

I'm gonna list the maps that I had difficulty with as requested in the response to my review. Most of them were in the last quarter of the pack's runtime. First map is Map 17 and 18, since they're both pretty much the same map but 18 is 17 reversed with a time limit. The primary issues I had was with 17 initially, the crushing ceiling towards the end. I don't think it's very possible for you to outrun this ceiling crusher, so I cheesed it by letting it pass beneath me, then going through. Unless that's the intended solution?

Map 18's primary issue is the tight time limit coupled with the number of traps. First off, you start with no rings, so you're likely to die to the lasers at the start, then you have to contend with the room that has the crushers on both sides, where if you fall just slightly short, you can't climb back out. After that, you've got a series of crushers, a room that goes dark (had to turn off shaders just to see what I was doing!), and during all of this you're under the pump with that 2:00 time limit. If you had say, 15 more seconds, I think it'd be more managable. I feel as if I was pushing myself as hard as I could and only barely made it.

The same applies to all the Metal Sonic races more or less. The first race isn't too bad, but the races after that are where that trial and error element comes into play, mainly since there's no checkpoints and races with Metal obviously can't have that due to the way they're designed. Particular standout is the rooftops race, where the timer seems very strict with little room for error (and lots of death pits, of course).

Map 19 is the map where the bizarre difficulty spikes become a real issue. Right after you clear the first two areas, after the steam jet jumps, you have to delicately jump across these 3 narrow platforms right over a deathpit with no chance of recovery if you fail. This wouldn't be awful, but there's no checkpoints before this point, so you gotta redo all that tedious stuff beforehand every time you want to take a crack at this kaizo-level platforming section. I ended up cheesing it by spindash jumping to a small railing on the left side where the green slime flows from. After this point, the map never has anything remotely coming close to the difficulty of this segment.

Map 20 is pretty self explanatory, as I did so to a certain extent in my review. The first segment before the path split is already hard enough, but I couldn't get past the gravity flipping mechanic on the "hard" path. Even if I could, my lives were already drained considerably by the slime tunnel you gotta get through near perfectly with a fully charged spindash and management of Tails' flight. You need TAS like reflexes to do it consistently, I think.

Map 22 wasn't bad, but I just had a complaint about how the whole floor's a death pit? It doesn't look like a death pit from above, there's all that terrain visible under the water. It was frustrating gathering all those rings only to mess up the last jump and lose it all at the end.

By the way, the back half of the mod isn't all bad. Map 21 is actually a really fun concept, I like the gravity puzzle elements. The final boss is just Brak, but I find getting his pathfinding to work with the gaps in the floor to be a little annoying. The rest of the pack didn't give me much trouble save for a few tough platforming challenges here and there.

 

[SlainLBS]

What about the Emblems?? They arent still collectables and for my own point i added Emblems in all maps except MAP20 and above

 

[Riolucariolu]

I'm gonna list the maps that I had difficulty with as requested in the response to my review. Most of them were in the last quarter of the pack's runtime. First map is Map 17 and 18, since they're both pretty much the same map but 18 is 17 reversed with a time limit. The primary issues I had was with 17 initially, the crushing ceiling towards the end. I don't think it's very possible for you to outrun this ceiling crusher, so I cheesed it by letting it pass beneath me, then going through. Unless that's the intended solution?

Crazy, I didn't know you could cheese it like that. You can just outrun it, you just gotta stay at top speed. Gotta admit I died to it a good few times too, I didn't remember I made it so hard.

Map 18's primary issue is the tight time limit coupled with the number of traps. First off, you start with no rings, so you're likely to die to the lasers at the start, then you have to contend with the room that has the crushers on both sides, where if you fall just slightly short, you can't climb back out. After that, you've got a series of crushers, a room that goes dark (had to turn off shaders just to see what I was doing!), and during all of this you're under the pump with that 2:00 time limit. If you had say, 15 more seconds, I think it'd be more managable. I feel as if I was pushing myself as hard as I could and only barely made it.

The same applies to all the Metal Sonic races more or less. The first race isn't too bad, but the races after that are where that trial and error element comes into play, mainly since there's no checkpoints and races with Metal obviously can't have that due to the way they're designed. Particular standout is the rooftops race, where the timer seems very strict with little room for error (and lots of death pits, of course).

The timers all have about 20 seconds of leeway. If the timers were easier, I could just remove them altogether as they wouldn't pose a threat. I know that Map18 even has 30 seconds of unneeded time. But I might change the crushers at the end of the Map18 so that you can get through the last segment faster. Gives the player the possibility to save more time which I think is cooler than just adding to the timer. MetallicLatteCaramel gave me a lot of feedback on this.
How bad was the darkness? I figured it would be fine with the glowing water and the fact the player has already seen the environment in Map17.

Map 19 is the map where the bizarre difficulty spikes become a real issue. Right after you clear the first two areas, after the steam jet jumps, you have to delicately jump across these 3 narrow platforms right over a deathpit with no chance of recovery if you fail. This wouldn't be awful, but there's no checkpoints before this point, so you gotta redo all that tedious stuff beforehand every time you want to take a crack at this kaizo-level platforming section. I ended up cheesing it by spindash jumping to a small railing on the left side where the green slime flows from. After this point, the map never has anything remotely coming close to the difficulty of this segment.

I agree, it's out of place. The rest of the level is free.

Map 20 is pretty self explanatory, as I did so to a certain extent in my review. The first segment before the path split is already hard enough, but I couldn't get past the gravity flipping mechanic on the "hard" path. Even if I could, my lives were already drained considerably by the slime tunnel you gotta get through near perfectly with a fully charged spindash and management of Tails' flight. You need TAS like reflexes to do it consistently, I think.

I wanted to make a hard game and I think I failed at that. But for Map20 my brother and I had an idea for a map we've never seen before, and this is the result. The difficulty is optional for a reason, I didn't wanna lock the game ending behind such a hard level. But most people I've been in touch with got it within 20-30 tries. With a little muscle memory it's manageable, I know I speak out of line because I'm the dev, but with a little training you can consistently do the stage in 5 lives. It's less about reflexes and more about height management and planning.

Map 22 wasn't bad, but I just had a complaint about how the whole floor's a death pit? It doesn't look like a death pit from above, there's all that terrain visible under the water. It was frustrating gathering all those rings only to mess up the last jump and lose it all at the end.

I don't really like Map22 myself. The part with the diagonal shapes sticking out of the water (right after the miniguns) gives me anxiety and the slopes in the end are unsatisfying. A lot of my stages have strats to make them go fast but I feel like I don't remember half of them anymore, so it feels a bit clunky to me aswell.

By the way, the back half of the mod isn't all bad. Map 21 is actually a really fun concept, I like the gravity puzzle elements. The final boss is just Brak, but I find getting his pathfinding to work with the gaps in the floor to be a little annoying. The rest of the pack didn't give me much trouble save for a few tough platforming challenges here and there.

Yeah my boss sucks, I don't know how to program. I just made the arena worse, sometimes he walks around the water stream for half a minute.

Thanks for the extensive feedback InsaneEnergy.
I gotta admit I'm against increasing the timers too much. Might give Map18 a little bit more time or adjust the crushers though because I got multiple complaints about that one. It's just that I think it's cool that you had to push yourself hard to beat it. For me that's part of the fun. I remember when SRB2 got the 2.2 update, they made the game save after every stage instead of after beating an entire 3 act segment. I enjoyed losing and having to redo parts in 2.1 a lot and felt a bit bummed when they made it "too easy" in the 2.2 update.
Map20 is extremely hard, but I tried to make the checkpoint more valuable by putting a lot of one-ups in the game, especially in Map07.

I will definitely consider making the silly platforms in Map19 wider and lighting up the darkness in Map18 a bit. Also I find it really cool you found cheese in Map17, will definitely leave that in. A clever solution.

What about the Emblems?? They arent still collectables and for my own point i added Emblems in all maps except MAP20 and above

Good question. I always planned to put emblems and got too lazy. They will be fully added in a future update and they will lead to a few reward stages. I just already placed a lot of them and didn't feel like deleting them. I will also include timer challenges etc for extra emblems.


InsaneEnergy and you just gave me a few cool ideas aswell. I wrote them down for next time I touch this mod alongside the fixes I'll make in accordance with your feedback.

 

[SlainLBS]

Crazy, I didn't know you could cheese it like that. You can just outrun it, you just gotta stay at top speed. Gotta admit I died to it a good few times too, I didn't remember I made it so hard.


The timers all have about 20 seconds of leeway. If the timers were easier, I could just remove them altogether as they wouldn't pose a threat. I know that Map18 even has 30 seconds of unneeded time. But I might change the crushers at the end of the Map18 so that you can get through the last segment faster. Gives the player the possibility to save more time which I think is cooler than just adding to the timer. MetallicLatteCaramel gave me a lot of feedback on this.
How bad was the darkness? I figured it would be fine with the glowing water and the fact the player has already seen the environment in Map17.


I agree, it's out of place. The rest of the level is free.


I wanted to make a hard game and I think I failed at that. But for Map20 my brother and I had an idea for a map we've never seen before, and this is the result. The difficulty is optional for a reason, I didn't wanna lock the game ending behind such a hard level. But most people I've been in touch with got it within 20-30 tries. With a little muscle memory it's manageable, I know I speak out of line because I'm the dev, but with a little training you can consistently do the stage in 5 lives. It's less about reflexes and more about height management and planning.


I don't really like Map22 myself. The part with the diagonal shapes sticking out of the water (right after the miniguns) gives me anxiety and the slopes in the end are unsatisfying. A lot of my stages have strats to make them go fast but I feel like I don't remember half of them anymore, so it feels a bit clunky to me aswell.


Yeah my boss sucks, I don't know how to program. I just made the arena worse, sometimes he walks around the water stream for half a minute.

Thanks for the extensive feedback InsaneEnergy.
I gotta admit I'm against increasing the timers too much. Might give Map18 a little bit more time or adjust the crushers though because I got multiple complaints about that one. It's just that I think it's cool that you had to push yourself hard to beat it. For me that's part of the fun. I remember when SRB2 got the 2.2 update, they made the game save after every stage instead of after beating an entire 3 act segment. I enjoyed losing and having to redo parts in 2.1 a lot and felt a bit bummed when they made it "too easy" in the 2.2 update.
Map20 is extremely hard, but I tried to make the checkpoint more valuable by putting a lot of one-ups in the game, especially in Map07.

I will definitely consider making the silly platforms in Map19 wider and lighting up the darkness in Map18 a bit. Also I find it really cool you found cheese in Map17, will definitely leave that in. A clever solution.


Good question. I always planned to put emblems and got too lazy. They will be fully added in a future update and they will lead to a few reward stages. I just already placed a lot of them and didn't feel like deleting them. I will also include timer challenges etc for extra emblems.


InsaneEnergy and you just gave me a few cool ideas aswell. I wrote them down for next time I touch this mod alongside the fixes I'll make in accordance with your feedback.

Some maps have emblems but never got a SOC to make them collectable so they are just floating there transluced and only with Online+ can turn them into Red Star Rings worth collecting.
If you are interested, i can share some of the locations on few Emblems i added, those placed by you remained untouched so its up to you if you want add them or not. For more details and such, you know where to find me

 

[Riolucariolu]

Some maps have emblems but never got a SOC to make them collectable so they are just floating there transluced and only with Online+ can turn them into Red Star Rings worth collecting.
If you are interested, i can share some of the locations on few Emblems i added, those placed by you remained untouched so its up to you if you want add them or not. For more details and such, you know where to find me

Yeah, I'm always up for inspiration, thanks.

 

[MetallicLatteCaramel]

a room that goes dark (had to turn off shaders just to see what I was doing!)

Out of curiousity - Are you referring to this section with the platforms:

Or the vent shaft after the deactivated lasers? Since the water here and the waterfall after illuminate the platforms quite well (atleast imo).
And, I know this might have less ground, but the description did recommend using OpenGL:

1. This runs on the software renderer, but it's optimized for OpenGL; do yourself a favor and switch to that.

 

[InsaneEnergy]

Out of curiousity - Are you referring to this section with the platforms:
View attachment 167694
Or the vent shaft after the deactivated lasers? Since the water here and the waterfall after illuminate the platforms quite well (atleast imo).
And, I know this might have less ground, but the description did recommend using OpenGL:

Yeah, it was this spot. In retrospect I understand what's been said about it, but I had a visceral reaction to doing tight platforming in a low-light environment while under a time limit that I really didn't want the extra challenge, so I just instinctively turned shaders off immediately so I could see better. You probably can clear this segment easily enough with practice, but that's just my problem: I don't want to spend more time here just so I can mess up at the next section, then die and restart, or run out of time just before the end of the level. The timer adds a stress factor to a segment like this that otherwise wouldn't have bothered me. I get that's the intention, I just personally dislike it.

 

[Riolucariolu]

I actually turned the light off there for two reasons. I thought it would help immersion as it's a crumbling factory that's running full of water, and I wanted to make the player panic :P