SSNTin
now ghostenks but account is too recent lol
not my point, im just saying all this drama would of been over already if someone had locked the thread
What in the world is SRB2 Workshop?
- Thread starter Void Animates
- Start date
DylanDude
Overeager Raposa
No it would not have, and this idea has been raised and refuted several times. Let's please not go over it yet again.
SSNTin
now ghostenks but account is too recent lol
oh well, no point in staying around then if you keep putting more problems in front of the solutions, ill see myself out, see ya.
DylanDude
Overeager Raposa
This situation existed before this thread and it will exist after it. Stop blaming us when we're not the ones who started it.
Not to burst your bubble or anything, but the unofficial ports of SRB2 the past didn't have any effort put into them outside of soup mob's attempt. Outside of his attempt, everyone else's were just a pallet fix and that was it while the official update at the time was taking almost 3 years to complete.
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time gear
Eternity in an hour
I have no intention of defending the workshop, I've never used it, never been there, and it sounds rather shady at best based on some of this topic that I've read through. However, I do have some opinions I'd like to share anyway.
Frankly though, when it comes to low quality mods that someone made such as say, a green Sonic recolor with slow fall instead of thok, I can't imagine why anyone would ever even want to publish a portleg of such a thing. I don't really see the value to it. You'd think the only mods getting portlegs either with or without permission would be the ones that you couldn't make from scratch yourself in 5 minutes, such as characters with custom sprites and code or whole levels with fun and interesting level design. The kind of thing that is likely to be sought after by those looking to experience them in a more up to date version of the game.
I know that most people in favor of making portlegs without permission wouldn't like that idea as what they specifically want is to be able to port whatever they want whenever they want and wouldn't want the huge waiting period, but it's not like their inability to do that is any different than redistributing any other piece of art that is owned by someone else before it becomes public domain. A small consolation though is that in reality, nobody can stop them from porting whatever mods they want for their own personal use and generally this isn't problematic for as long as they're not distributing it without permission. It's similar when it comes to mods made for other games. While the rules vary from website to website, it being frowned upon to reupload someone else's work without permission, even if all you're doing is porting it to work in a more up to date build of a game is nothing unique to the SRB2 community and rules against doing so are generally not seen as anything unreasonable.
I mostly agree with this, though you do have to draw the line between what is and isn't art somewhere. Calling literally anything regardless of how much effort it takes to make "art" starts to dilute and blur the entire meaning and makes the entire concept of art uncomfortably unspecific and abstract. I think it's fair to say that if someone just draws a quick line on a piece of paper, that's not art, that's a line. Similarly, if all someone does is recolor someone else's work, it seems fair to say that's not generally going to be transformative enough to regard as its own distinct piece of art.
Frankly though, when it comes to low quality mods that someone made such as say, a green Sonic recolor with slow fall instead of thok, I can't imagine why anyone would ever even want to publish a portleg of such a thing. I don't really see the value to it. You'd think the only mods getting portlegs either with or without permission would be the ones that you couldn't make from scratch yourself in 5 minutes, such as characters with custom sprites and code or whole levels with fun and interesting level design. The kind of thing that is likely to be sought after by those looking to experience them in a more up to date version of the game.
I do think there is a fair point that could be made about how art is usually treated, so I'll do so now. When it comes to things such as books, movies, music, etc. such things usually don't remain walled off from access forever, but rather eventually become public domain. Of course, such a thing typically takes a very, very long time to the point that it's unlikely that the original author will even still be alive by the time it happens, but honestly I don't really see that as a problem. If someone doesn't want their work being reused then by all means they have the right to say no, but I do think that there should be some kind of far off cutoff point way into the future when any archived versions of that work become a sort of public domain item that can be used, reproduced, and distributed freely similar to other forms of art.
I know that most people in favor of making portlegs without permission wouldn't like that idea as what they specifically want is to be able to port whatever they want whenever they want and wouldn't want the huge waiting period, but it's not like their inability to do that is any different than redistributing any other piece of art that is owned by someone else before it becomes public domain. A small consolation though is that in reality, nobody can stop them from porting whatever mods they want for their own personal use and generally this isn't problematic for as long as they're not distributing it without permission. It's similar when it comes to mods made for other games. While the rules vary from website to website, it being frowned upon to reupload someone else's work without permission, even if all you're doing is porting it to work in a more up to date build of a game is nothing unique to the SRB2 community and rules against doing so are generally not seen as anything unreasonable.
Hello? This thread dead? Probably not.
I wrote a text document before which summed up my thoughts on the reusability system, now I made this with having no real clue what points were presented here, but I'll post what I wrote here anyway.
"Good day, how are you all doing? Seeing as this thread is finally kind of burned out, I want to state my general opinions on the reusability system since this is pretty much the place for it and I haven't stated my general thoughts properly before.
I think that the reusability system is not necessarily bad, I generally think that it's
a good system. However I think of the reusability system in a different way than probably most people.
I generally don't think that when it comes to this, that there is a good definition for ownership.
It can wildly vary for a lot of people. Because of this, I don't think that the reusability system should be thought of in the way of ownership. I think of the reusability system in the way of not modifying something not cause that artist owns that piece of art but rather cause you respect that the artist made that mod and so you respect their wishes. I think that generally the best way to think of the reusability
system is not in the way of "i own this and i don't like you doing this", rather more in the way "sorry but i would not appreciate if you didn't do this with my mod, i don't think it would be really cool", meaning I think of it as more so as mutual respect between artists.
Because of this, I don't think that what the WS is doing is exactly art theft (at least in the technical sense), but more so not respecting the artist, rather more going on the lines of saying "piss off". Of course this is also not good behaviour, but I do think there is a difference between the two actions. The WS does generally credit with the intent of it not being flat out art theft. It is stilly scummy behaviour not getting proper permission and I do not support or like the WS in any way shape or form.
I think that the reusability system would be better for everyone if they didn't think of it as having to do about ownership, but more so rather as having respect for that artist. The reusability info changing from "modify: no" to "modify: ask me" I think is a great example of how much nicer it is to have that different mindset."
Now if you don't want to read this, that's fine, I just really wanted to get my thoughts out on the system since I haven't done that before as written in the beginning. If you have anything you want to argue, go ahead. This is the thread for it lol.
I wrote a text document before which summed up my thoughts on the reusability system, now I made this with having no real clue what points were presented here, but I'll post what I wrote here anyway.
"Good day, how are you all doing? Seeing as this thread is finally kind of burned out, I want to state my general opinions on the reusability system since this is pretty much the place for it and I haven't stated my general thoughts properly before.
I think that the reusability system is not necessarily bad, I generally think that it's
a good system. However I think of the reusability system in a different way than probably most people.
I generally don't think that when it comes to this, that there is a good definition for ownership.
It can wildly vary for a lot of people. Because of this, I don't think that the reusability system should be thought of in the way of ownership. I think of the reusability system in the way of not modifying something not cause that artist owns that piece of art but rather cause you respect that the artist made that mod and so you respect their wishes. I think that generally the best way to think of the reusability
system is not in the way of "i own this and i don't like you doing this", rather more in the way "sorry but i would not appreciate if you didn't do this with my mod, i don't think it would be really cool", meaning I think of it as more so as mutual respect between artists.
Because of this, I don't think that what the WS is doing is exactly art theft (at least in the technical sense), but more so not respecting the artist, rather more going on the lines of saying "piss off". Of course this is also not good behaviour, but I do think there is a difference between the two actions. The WS does generally credit with the intent of it not being flat out art theft. It is stilly scummy behaviour not getting proper permission and I do not support or like the WS in any way shape or form.
I think that the reusability system would be better for everyone if they didn't think of it as having to do about ownership, but more so rather as having respect for that artist. The reusability info changing from "modify: no" to "modify: ask me" I think is a great example of how much nicer it is to have that different mindset."
Now if you don't want to read this, that's fine, I just really wanted to get my thoughts out on the system since I haven't done that before as written in the beginning. If you have anything you want to argue, go ahead. This is the thread for it lol.
I'd like to point out that it's not our place or intent as staff to make commentary on what is art and what isn't. This is an environment for people to learn and hone skills, no matter their output: the rules in place are meant as a standard protection to that craft, so that creators get fully recognized within the community for their effort.
You do bring an interesting point though, since most people who seem to think our current reusability rules are draconic point to other modding communities as if those didn't have their own standards for asking permission to creators and giving them due credit.
Octosquid
Bember
I've seen this thread many times and think that I will put my two cents on the discussion
How hard is it to ask for permission?
If the creators are gone from the community, you need to make attempts to try to contact them, if that doesn't work and a few months have gone by, then you are allowed to port it!
"MB staff lets you attempt to port and release a non-reusable mod given enough time has passed and clear attempts were made by you to contact the author." (from amperbee's post from a few pages back)
But if they aren't, just go on and ask them if you can!
A good example is MKFB's Legacy Shadow port
He asked permission from Inazuma, got it, uploaded it, and it was perfectly fine!
If you ask and they say no, then don't port it! They are still people after all!
How hard is it to ask for permission?
If the creators are gone from the community, you need to make attempts to try to contact them, if that doesn't work and a few months have gone by, then you are allowed to port it!
"MB staff lets you attempt to port and release a non-reusable mod given enough time has passed and clear attempts were made by you to contact the author." (from amperbee's post from a few pages back)
But if they aren't, just go on and ask them if you can!
A good example is MKFB's Legacy Shadow port
He asked permission from Inazuma, got it, uploaded it, and it was perfectly fine!
If you ask and they say no, then don't port it! They are still people after all!
Sailor Muffin
Always changing my PFP
It isn't hard to get permission to port a mod
The creator left the community?
Try to contact them on Discord,a big part of the SRB2 community IS in the MB Discord server,most of them are there!
Got a "no"?
Well,try getting some other modder that will let you port their mod! (That's how i got to the point to Port 2.1 Shadow
)
The creator left the community?
Try to contact them on Discord,a big part of the SRB2 community IS in the MB Discord server,most of them are there!
Got a "no"?
Well,try getting some other modder that will let you port their mod! (That's how i got to the point to Port 2.1 Shadow
)
Sls64LGamingBro
An ordinary coder...
I even done this with Lat', When I decided to port Funny Meme into 2.2, I asked Lat' if I can. And Lat' said yes to me, and I was able to get through it in.
As you can see, it was approved by the judges. Because I asked permission anyway, and I did that by using the "conversation button".
As you can see, it was approved by the judges. Because I asked permission anyway, and I did that by using the "conversation button".
Sailor Muffin
Always changing my PFP
Conversation button when they see portlegs from people that never touched it in their lifes:
time gear
Eternity in an hour
Personally I don't think something has to be recognized as art in its entirety to appreciate the work that went into it. Most buildings aren't meant to be art, but they can still be commendable, impressive, and practical additions to the town or city they are added to and there can be a certain beauty to them even if unintentional. If someone makes a character that's just the in-game Sonic sprites but recolored, but they inject custom code to give the character a fun and unique moveset, they might not necessarily have created art but that doesn't at all make their contribution unappreciated or worthless, it just makes their creation more practical than artistic.
TunaTailsRealNoFake
waiting for someone to stop rule 34
Rule 8: No spam. Do not make pointless topics, one-liners, polls, or forum games.
nooooooooo!1!1!!1 portlegg!!111!!!Conversation button when they see portlegs from people that never touched it in their lifes:
SonicHacker141
battle network-er
also, don't mean to bring this thread back from the dead, but why would you guys care if some random ass alternate website creates portlegs and stuff that would disrespect the original creators? even if they doxxed the mb, they're still just a random ass website other then that, they don't really mean business, do they?
other than doing exactly what people hate and dislike them for, they're fine!
jubbalub
Member
The point is why bother giving them the attention? If they're so bad, just leave them be to do their own thing. We don't own other people, we can't control what other people do. You can have your judgement on their behavior if you so desire, but at the end of the day, it's a random website that has no relation at all to the message board or otherwise-official SRB2 properties. Wasting energy talking about how awful it is is pointless - they certainly don't care, so why should you?
BeanFanBoy1996
Just a Bean Fan
LMAO
SP Moves Enjoyer
Member
"just ignore them"
its almost like everyone has collectively not cared about the workshop, and what do you know! the place is dead.
Sls64LGamingBro
An ordinary coder...
That's literally because the thread is about the workshop, even when where on the 40th page. It's crazy to think how it went to 2023 to 2024 in this thread.