Which level do you like/hate the most in SRB2?

[MascaraSnake]

Earlier in that post, I said I sucked at match, and I also said why I don't care to get better at it...

I'm trying not to go off-topic, so I'm not repeating it.

I read that. However, if you get better, you don't have to worry about opponents chasing you down, since then you will be able to defend yourself.

I keep dieing on eggrock zone, at the first part, those stupid crushers are the worst cheap death machines I've ever seen, I died but it barely touched me?

Try again. You will only make it if you continue running at full speed and don't hit the wall. After a few times, you will have remembered all the turns and will make it through.

 

[wills316]

I honestly, HONESTLY think GFZ is fine as it is. When I first played GFZ2 I was pleased with all the little nooks and crannies that you could access with Knuckles or Tails, it made it seem like a lot of effort had gone into it.

As for GFZ1, I think that's fine too. If we had to modify it even a little, maybe add another little cave or hidden bit every so often so that when the players go back and play it again later, they find them and are pleasantly surprised. Not caves where you could get lost, though.

 

[sphere]

Green Hill Zone wasn't piss-easy like Green Flower Zone is. There's a difference between being basic and simply being boring.

I really agree with this. Everyone is free to prove this wrong, but it really is too basic. Both GHZ, EHZ and AIZ had more platforming than GFZ. Also, all GFZ acts really need major graphical touchups. I mean, the aforementioned official Sonic zones look way better, especially the latter two.

I am planning to spruce up GFZ1, but this will not lengthen it at all. The issue with it is that certain things that are important to teach the player aren't dealt with properly. Otherwise it's doing its job fine.

I'm interested to see what exactly will be changed. I mainly hope for this, though: Make the level less confusing. I know STJr wants to keep GFZ1 as introductionary and simple as it is right now, but at least make it harder to go in circles. I mean, it's simply bad level design, and it's not introductionary at all for the rest of the game (except for the beginning of THZ1 and bad custom levels), plus it will prevent comments like these:

I had friends, that when they first played SRB2, they got lost on Greenflower Zone 1.

I did too. I went in a circle at the beginning for 10 minutes.

And it would really help most newbies to the game.

It's just a suggestion, but I really think GFZ should at least get some changes.

 

[Galefox]

I read that. However, if you get better, you don't have to worry about opponents chasing you down, since then you will be able to defend yourself.

It's not the same with co-op though, co-op is far more enjoyable for the social aspect of it, which is what I like in online gaming. It's not quite the same in match... It's rather pointless to me because there's not much in the way of interaction, even to help someone do some simple thing there is more positive interaction than in match, unless it's team match or CTF which are slightly more bearable, slightly, the last time I tried a CTF match, I think my teammate tried to toss me over the edge... If that's how people are going to be to me then they can piss off.

Try again. You will only make it if you continue running at full speed and don't hit the wall. After a few times, you will have remembered all the turns and will make it through.

Yes I know but that doesn't make the level any less annoying, but it does have some very appropriate music.

 

[Errol]

words

Actually, the dev team already fixed that problem by making a wall slightly longer. I agree a graphical touchup would be very nice, (GFZ2 particularily looks blargh in the more secret areas) but gameplay-wise these two acts are perfectly fine as they are now. (Perhaps do something at the bridge area in GFZ1. Making it easier to exit, with a stair or such, would be cool.)

 

[Galefox]

Actually, the dev team already fixed that problem by making a wall slightly longer. I agree a graphical touchup would be very nice, (GFZ2 particularily looks blargh in the more secret areas) but gameplay-wise these two acts are perfectly fine as they are now. (Perhaps do something at the bridge area in GFZ1. Making it easier to exit, with a stair or such, would be cool.)

I don't understand what's really wrong with greenflower's graphics...

I think it looks nice and nature-y, but I guess some trees and flowers and added gloss would look nice...

 

[SSNTails]

Ibut at least make it harder to go in circles. I mean, it's simply bad level design, and it's not introductionary at all for the rest of the game (except for the beginning of THZ1 and bad custom levels), plus it will prevent comments like these:

What the hell do we need to do? Put a large flashing Vegas-Style arrow towards the starpost and series of rings?

 

[MascaraSnake]

It's really not a problem anymore since 2.0.

 

[Armonte]

There's lag in CEZ? I never knew that. (Seriously)

I've never encountered lag in any of the levels, probably because I have a 4 core computer that's made for gaming...

Anyways, GFZ1 is way to easy, it should be at least a little more of a challenge, or at least some more length.

Um. That's a blatant lie, SRB2 doesn't give a crap about your 4 cores, I have 4 also, software mode doesn't use the graphics card to render the stuff, so it's bound to lag.

h

 

[wills316]

What the hell do we need to do? Put a large flashing Vegas-Style arrow towards the starpost and series of rings?

Yes, probably...

 

[Fawfulfan]

It depends, really. When you have the option to play online with others, and the only two choices (on this game, at least) are playing with them and getting beat up by them, I think the former sounds much more appealing...

Oh, come on, Coop is just lame. It may detract from the challenge, but typically that means that the unskilled n00bs the the server will just end up getting warped to the next level without pulling their weight. I can't honestly see what's fun about that, seeing as many of those players will just mill around near the beginning of the level.

The only potential benefit to Coop over Single Player is role playing, and in all honesty, I can see much better role playing opportunities in Match or CTF. Case in point, back in the 1.09.4 days, I once played an awesome Match server in which we had added in a bunch of Mario WADs plus the Big Boo's Haunt level. I played as Bowser, and the other two people on the server were Mario and Luigi. We were role playing a typical interaction between the three characters, and I was stomping around the mansion seeking out the Mario Bros., as they shouted out their positions to each other. I think it went on in this vain for over an hour. It was awesome, and it would never have worked in Coop.

My basic opinion? Coop is at best a pointless festival of RPing, and at worst a mind-numbing, useless chance for n00bs to hitch a ride and think they're getting something cool out of it when they're really not. No, the only reason I ever log on to a Coop server is if it advertises a WAD I don't have, and I can download it off the server. In those cases, I get the heck out of there once the WAD is mine.

 

[Galefox]

What the hell do we need to do? Put a large flashing Vegas-Style arrow towards the starpost and series of rings?

Well, they do have a point, it is pretty easy to get confused in Greenflower...

I don't know how popular this idea is, but have you ever considered adding an optional tutorial level to SRB2? I bring this up because if I remember, my first time playing the game, I had a hard time figuring out my control and I didn't know ESC = pause, pretty sad, isn't it?

The tutorial would be optional, I guess whenever you start a new game and pick your character something could pop up asking you if you'd like to do a tutorial, and the tutorial would vary depending on your character.

I'm not saying design a different level for each character, but is it at all difficult to make different characters spawn in different areas of a level? I really don't know, I'm not a programmer, but maybe this would be your piss-easy stage for new players, and it could give you some excuse to do something with the first too levels, maybe not much, but maybe do something with the paths, I really do think some sections of the levels are a bit expansive, I mean, I like the open space, honestly, but when I look at it it really does seem a bit empty, and like there's paths in oddly placed areas, but to be honest, these things don't bother me.

I just suggested a tutorial level because Greenflower zone doesn't tell you what your controls are, and you need to read the manual to find out about shields which is all fine and good but how many people will do that?

I might be underestimating people here, but I only read the manual because (prepare for a really stupid comment) the pictures attracted me to it. (Gotta love STJ's artists.)

Maybe the level wouldn't tell you what all the shields do but just tell you basic stuff like the 1ups give you extra lives and the speed boots make you go faster and the stars make you invincible, and maybe say something like "There are other types of shields, so keep an eye out to see their different abilities." and for people who like spoilers there's the manual...

Is this helpful?

Oh, come on, Coop is just lame. It may detract from the challenge, but typically that means that the unskilled n00bs the the server will just end up getting warped to the next level without pulling their weight. I can't honestly see what's fun about that, seeing as many of those players will just mill around near the beginning of the level.

The only potential benefit to Coop over Single Player is role playing, and in all honesty, I can see much better role playing opportunities in Match or CTF. Case in point, back in the 1.09.4 days, I once played an awesome Match server in which we had added in a bunch of Mario WADs plus the Big Boo's Haunt level. I played as Bowser, and the other two people on the server were Mario and Luigi. We were role playing a typical interaction between the three characters, and I was stomping around the mansion seeking out the Mario Bros., as they shouted out their positions to each other. I think it went on in this vain for over an hour. It was awesome, and it would never have worked in Coop.

My basic opinion? Coop is at best a pointless festival of RPing, and at worst a mind-numbing, useless chance for n00bs to hitch a ride and think they're getting something cool out of it when they're really not. No, the only reason I ever log on to a Coop server is if it advertises a WAD I don't have, and I can download it off the server. In those cases, I get the heck out of there once the WAD is mine.

I have more of a problem with noobs that rush through the friggin level and don't let anybody else HAVE ANY FUN!

Honestly I think that match idea sounds fine if you're playing with friends, which I'm usually not, all I ever encounter are idiots and jerks in match and CTF that only want to stonp on EVERYONE ELSE and win at any cost and they never play fair, all my team ever does in CTF is turn against me because CTF is filled with retards that obviously don't care about other people's feelings or if someone else is having fun or not and they NEED to be kicked but nobody ever kicks them and I'm SICK of it! It's always the same crap with match, I find it amazing ANYONE who plays Match has the intellect to RP! It just seems like the same idiots that would be attracted to one of those stupid FOS games where everyone's in it to win it and they'll cap their own officers just to get a rank.

Co-op was my favorite aspect of STH3, back when I HAD someone IRL to play with, now I don't, so I get it off the internet, on a game that's made more awesome to me because it does something my SMC discs can never do for me now, and that's find me someone to play Sonic with.

I don't care if I did Angel Island Zone ten thousand times, it's always better with someone else.

There, that's my rant. >_>

Co-op isn't an RP fest, I can never find anyone on this game who wants to RP anyway, if I could, great, that would be awesome, because truth to tell, I've seen many WADs that would go great with RP, but I never ask anyone, especially since I thought RP wasn't even allowed on SRB2.

 

[Mystic]

I know this might shock you, but getting lost is actually part of 3D games. This is not Sonic Adventure and we aren't going to put arrows everywhere telling you where to go. It's only a problem if the player gets stuck outright, where they're explored everything they know and can't figure out where to go. Some of my best experiences playing SRB2 have been being lost in huge stages with a ton of things to check out. Some of my worst experiences playing SRB2 have been being lost in a simple area with a non-obvious exit.

I have no problem with the player getting confused in SRB2's levels. It's going to happen regardless. It's only an issue if the player gets truly stuck.

 

[Galefox]

I know this might shock you, but getting lost is actually part of 3D games. This is not Sonic Adventure and we aren't going to put arrows everywhere telling you where to go. It's only a problem if the player gets stuck outright, where they're explored everything they know and can't figure out where to go. Some of my best experiences playing SRB2 have been being lost in huge stages with a ton of things to check out. Some of my worst experiences playing SRB2 have been being lost in a simple area with a non-obvious exit.

I have no problem with the player getting confused in SRB2's levels. It's going to happen regardless. It's only an issue if the player gets truly stuck.

I guess that's true, everyone gets lost their first go-around in a level in a 3-D platformer, which is great, I think, I like 3-D more than 2-D so I have experiences with getting utterly confused in platformers.

I think mostly what Greenflower and Techno Hill 1 need are more landmarks, there's things most 3-D platformers I've played have about specific places that make the path easier to mark, lighting, what color that rick is there, the shady place there, where the stairs are, etc, these make some areas of Greenflower memorable for me, and I'll recognize them if I see them, but there are a couple of places that look alike, I think it might help people a bit if maybe there were more graphics in some places, maybe some nice flowers in one otherwise plain area, I'm not sure.

 

[MascaraSnake]

I have more of a problem with noobs that rush through the friggin level and don't let anybody else HAVE ANY FUN!

How does that bother you? Just let them rush and do your thing.

Honestly I think that match idea sounds fine if you're playing with friends, which I'm usually not, all I ever encounter are idiots and jerks in match and CTF that only want to stonp on EVERYONE ELSE and win at any cost and they never play fair,

The point of Match is to "stomp on everyone". Also, how can you not play fair in Match?

all my team ever does in CTF is turn against me because CTF is filled with retards that obviously don't care about other people's feelings or if someone else is having fun or not and they NEED to be kicked but nobody ever kicks them and I'm SICK of it!

How do they turn against you? They can't shoot you or anything like that.

 

[Galefox]

How does that bother you? Just let them rush and do your thing.

Because they hit the goal, maybe I didn't want to finish the level. maybe I wanted to explore it with friends, or maybe I wanted to do it as a group. Sonic doesn't run ahead of Tails and Knuckles in his stories, they usually go places together, unless their stories have them elsewhere, so why should one person be allowed to speed ahead and leave the others who are trying to do things as a team behind? I wish there was some thing with co-op where everyone had to be at the exit (unless someone died) for the level to end, that's fair.

The point of Match is to "stomp on everyone".

That's why I hate match, it's not the most friendly environment.

Also, how can you not play fair in Match?

How DO you play fair in match? We aren't talking about cpu generated enemies, players have minds of their own, and that usually means everyone's going to be looking for a way to pull a dick move on another player.

How do they turn against you? They can't shoot you or anything like that.

One time a Tails player dropped me off a ledge... Another time a Sonic player took the red team's flag when I was about to get it, he couldn't cover me? I can't shoot worth crap, but I can run for my life, you'd think strategy comes into play there... Which is why match is only fun with people you know, I only play competition online with people I know I can laugh off my suckage with, or laugh at theirs if we're playing something I don't suck at, there's never hard feelings or any nervousness for being the worst player.

 

[Autosaver]

Galefox - TL;DR to both of those posts. But I did read a little bit.

Just because something is the first level of the game. Doesn't mean the game is putting you on training wheels.

Sonic Adventure - The first act was fun to play, and wasn't OMG EASY.
All the Sonic games had an interesting first level. Either testing gimmicks or just having fun. They aren't rediciously short either.

 

[Galefox]

Galefox - TL;DR to both of those posts. But I did read a little bit.

Just because something is the first level of the game. Doesn't mean the game is putting you on training wheels.

Sonic Adventure - The first act was fun to play, and wasn't OMG EASY.
All the Sonic games had an interesting first level. Either testing gimmicks or just having fun. They aren't rediciously short either.

Well I did suggest to maybe add a tutorial level. That would be training wheels I guess.

I think the problem with SA1 and ARB2 is the gameplay physics work differently, the physics is definitely more like what you'd expect in a 2-D Sonic game, at least that's how it feels to me, and in SA1's level, it was a bit linear...

This game's really more of an adventure game than a platformer, but it does have platforming elements, which I think is fine but I can see where some stuff might be hard to accomplish.

 

[Autosaver]

What the hell do we need to do? Put a large flashing Vegas-Style arrow towards the starpost and series of rings?

Duh, while you are at it. Make floor textures with arrows on them.

Xp

 

[Mystic]

It's really not, though. The early stages of the game are easy and do not contain large amounts of platforming, but I assure you if you get reasonably far into the game it'll be pretty clear that SRB2 is a 3D platformer.

What SRB2 doesn't do is act like Sonic Adventure. You're placed into a 3D area and you're expected to figure out where to go and what to do on your own. SRB2 doesn't do a lot of the annoying hand-holding modern platformers do, and there is a reason there is no tutorial. You're expected to just try stuff and figure it out. If you have a question, there's always the manual.